Optimal strength training for runners
- Thread starter Abide
- Start date
Lee real quick about your training question. Yes squats do affect my running, however I think you found the key by doing posteriror chain movements that exclude the quads the day before runnning. I stay away from things like lunges, front squats, single leg squats, etc... the day before a long run.
Is it really that much different than dead lifts? A standard plate trap bar is over $200.
Btw, been getting into clubbells lately, and have made a couple with wiffle bats and sand, and another one with pipes.
P.S., you see that Joe Weider passed away?
Yeah sad, looks like he live a pretty long life, good for him.
Its different than regular deads, mainly the impact in the quads and it takes pressure off your back and places it onto your legs. Straight legged deads feel more like a regular deadlift with it, but I can load more weight without tweaking my back.
Where I have been really noticing the effect is in my upper back and shoulders and mostly realted to the neutral grip. I've been using it for shrugs and heavy farmers carries and my shoulders and upper back never get sore in long runs anymore even when I am running with two full handhelds.
Honestly it's been a worthwhile purchase if only to be able to do heavier farmers carries. If I were you I would get a cheap olympic set from CL and then invest in a trap bar they are a about $130 shipped from amazon. You could probably do it cheaper than going standard.
Its different than regular deads, mainly the impact in the quads and it takes pressure off your back and places it onto your legs. Straight legged deads feel more like a regular deadlift with it, but I can load more weight without tweaking my back.
Where I have been really noticing the effect is in my upper back and shoulders and mostly realted to the neutral grip. I've been using it for shrugs and heavy farmers carries and my shoulders and upper back never get sore in long runs anymore even when I am running with two full handhelds.
Honestly it's been a worthwhile purchase if only to be able to do heavier farmers carries. If I were you I would get a cheap olympic set from CL and then invest in a trap bar they are a about $130 shipped from amazon. You could probably do it cheaper than going standard.
ya just about got me talked into it. I always prefer a neutral grip whenever possible. That's part of the reason I like dumbbells so much. I'd still probably go the standard plate route though--my garage is starting to get cluttered so I don't really want to have an extra set of plates around.
With the clubbells I've been doing mostly mills, to increase shoulder mobility and generally strengthen the joint. Mills are also pretty good for the wrist/forearm. Still working on the double heart-shaped mills. Fun to do something that actually takes a little coordination.
Did I mention I also got some suspension straps? Those are pretty good for a few things, although, as always, people have tried to use them as free-weight or cable equivalents, and it just doesn't work. Cross-overs for example, end up working the back just as much as the pecs. Still, until I have space for a cable cross-over machine, I'll keep doing them, along with single-arm cross-overs with the cable machine I already have. And the straps are great for pikes and few other things. You could easily diy them but I got a nice set from WOSS on Amazon.
Yeah I remember back when you were talking about the straps. One of these days I'll start using mine some more. There are so many things that I want to do but I always end up going back to the basics and the other stuff ends up just collecting dust. Oh well one of these days right...
Trying to lose some weight and see how it affects the running and lifting. I'm thinking of dropping down to 170 to test it out for the summer.
Trying to lose some weight and see how it affects the running and lifting. I'm thinking of dropping down to 170 to test it out for the summer.
Yeah I remember back when you were talking about the straps. One of these days I'll start using mine some more. There are so many things that I want to do but I always end up going back to the basics and the other stuff ends up just collecting dust. Oh well one of these days right...
Yah, that's how it works for me. I try to keep an open mind, but there's also only so much time in the day, and I already pretty much know what works for me--mostly plates and dumbbells.
Still, I've incorporated a few things from the new trends.
For the clubbells I've added three new exercises--mills, heart-shaped mills, and mill casts--and these really are better than anything else I've tried for working shoulder mobility and wrist strength. So those are keepers.
The one strap exercise I've really liked so far are the pikes. I tried a walking handstand with the straps yesterday--big fail. I'm still messing around though so perhaps I'll find other keepers, and the cross-overs aren't too bad. If you have a minute to send the Bruno link, that'd be great.
Also, I finally tried the adjustable kettlebell at Dick's Sporting Goods, and for the life of me couldn't see any advantage over a dumbbell. A clean and snatch movement was actually far inferior with the kettlebell, as the handle abraded my palm a bit and the thing knocked against the top of my forearm at the end of the clean. Just don't get it the whole kettlebell thing, although I like doing "kettlebell" or two-handed swings with my diy t-bar.
Trying to lose some weight and see how it affects the running and lifting. I'm thinking of dropping down to 170 to test it out for the summer.
Yah, I'm renewing my push to 200, now that my nagging injuries seem to have cleared up. Starting to see improvements in my lifts again so with the extra effort I'm able to burn more calories and add a bit more energy-consuming muscle. It would be nice to get rid of a bit more belly fat too before I start pushing distance.
Yah, that's how it works for me. I try to keep an open mind, but there's also only so much time in the day, and I already pretty much know what works for me--mostly plates and dumbbells.
Still, I've incorporated a few things from the new trends.
For the clubbells I've added three new exercises--mills, heart-shaped mills, and mill casts--and these really are better than anything else I've tried for working shoulder mobility and wrist strength. So those are keepers.
The one strap exercise I've really liked so far are the pikes. I tried a walking handstand with the straps yesterday--big fail. I'm still messing around though so perhaps I'll find other keepers, and the cross-overs aren't too bad. If you have a minute to send the Bruno link, that'd be great.
Also, I finally tried the adjustable kettlebell at Dick's Sporting Goods, and for the life of me couldn't see any advantage over a dumbbell. A clean and snatch movement was actually far inferior with the kettlebell, as the handle abraded my palm a bit and the thing knocked against the top of my forearm at the end of the clean. Just don't get it the whole kettlebell thing, although I like doing "kettlebell" or two-handed swings with my diy t-bar.
Trying to lose some weight and see how it affects the running and lifting. I'm thinking of dropping down to 170 to test it out for the summer.
Yah, I'm renewing my push to 200, now that my nagging injuries seem to have cleared up. Starting to see improvements in my lifts again so with the extra effort I'm able to burn more calories and add a bit more energy-consuming muscle. It would be nice to get rid of a bit more belly fat too before I start pushing distance.
I like the swing and high pull, which are fairly unique movements when done with the kettlebell.
Are you worried that you might lose some muscle if you drop that much weight? (Though, I don't know where you're starting from now, of course.)
Yah, like I always say, everyone has to find what works for them. I like the swing, but it can be done just as well with a t-bar, and the high pull, while a unique movement, can easily be done with a dumbbell. Personally, I prefer to attack the muscles that the high pull targets with somewhat more simplex movements like power cleans, rows, face pulls, straight-arm raises, front pull-downs, and such, because you do them with greater weight, and thus make greater strength gains.
But if you feel you get the most benefit with kettlebells, or enjoy using them more, that's the most important thing, not what works best for me. I'm just registering my impressions as a contribution to the discussion of what sorts of strength-training works for different people. And I think it's important for people trying some of the new stuff to hear what more traditionalists like Abide and myself have to say, just as it's been helpful for me to hear about your wide-ranging experimentation. I'm taking a pass on the kettlebells, but you helped get me into clubbells. You also convinced me to get proper winter running gear and an electric massager. Next thing you know you'll have me trying to learn how to swim properly! Now if we could just get you to commit to squats, deadlifts, and power cleans . . .
I'd like to get into Olympics lifts one day. Supposedly my gym, LA Fitness, will occasionally have Olympic trainers who come through every once in a while. Apparently, some gym members whined about all the chalk everywhere, and the last guy left.
I'm getting a bit of upper development with the swimming 4 days a week. Haven't lifted or run in a while, though. I need to do start doing some running, as I'm becoming a tenderfoot.
I enjoyed hearing about your experimentation. I'm glad to hear that the clubbells are working well.
I'm getting a bit of upper development with the swimming 4 days a week. Haven't lifted or run in a while, though. I need to do start doing some running, as I'm becoming a tenderfoot.
I enjoyed hearing about your experimentation. I'm glad to hear that the clubbells are working well.
I'd like to get into Olympics lifts one day.
The heavy lifts are a lot of fun. You could go the lazy route like me. I don't do snatches or clean and jerks (although I should), just power cleans because they don't require much technique. Then I do the shoulder press part separately, with a barbell and dumbbells. The deadlifts and squats are also pretty easy to master. Just start out with low weight until you get the form right. It's easy to hurt yourself on those, so the form is especially important, but I've never had any problems. I also never worry about max weight with those kinds of exercises. I just let the improvements come as they may, and stick to the 3-5 rep range for the most part, never lifting to failure. I could probably single-rep 50-100 pounds more than I currently do on both exercises, but I don't want to take any unnecessary risks. Gotta be hypervigilante about keeping the back and knees healthy.
I need to do start doing some running, as I'm becoming a tenderfoot.
Yah, miss your trail running stories . . .
The heavy lifts are a lot of fun. You could go the lazy route like me. I don't do snatches or clean and jerks (although I should), just power cleans because they don't require much technique. Then I do the shoulder press part separately, with a barbell and dumbbells. The deadlifts and squats are also pretty easy to master. Just start out with low weight until you get the form right. It's easy to hurt yourself on those, so the form is especially important, but I've never had any problems. I also never worry about max weight with those kinds of exercises. I just let the improvements come as they may, and stick to the 3-5 rep range for the most part, never lifting to failure. I could probably single-rep 50-100 pounds more than I currently do on both exercises, but I don't want to take any unnecessary risks. Gotta be hypervigilante about keeping the back and knees healthy.
I need to do start doing some running, as I'm becoming a tenderfoot.
Yah, miss your trail running stories . . .
OK, just ordered a shrug / trap bar, from New York Barbells - $206.59 with shipping. This better be good Abide . . . you haven't been wrong yet.
http://www.newyorkbarbells.com/im-0022shr.html
Nah, it's coming Saturday, already in transit. Looks like I can flip the handle if it's too high. In any case, it's one of the few standard plate trap bars out there, and the others are a lot more expensive. I'm pretty sure it will be good enough for me, but if not, I can always blame you.
Overall, my strength training has been going really well these days. I think I've got a pretty good routine/schedule worked out now, and this discussion has been a big part of its development and tweaking over the last, what, six months or so? I'm pretty much working every body part, and in a way that complements my running pretty well. Thanks Abide, Sid, Scedastic, Nick and everyone else.
NickW
Guest
I can't wait till next week and I start doing ST again. Waiting until I am off the antibiotics and hopefully they have left my system before I start again. Abide gave me a great link on helping to straighten out my duckfootedness on the right side so hopefully here in the near future I can be running again with little/no problem. Amazing the resources you all help provide. I've got to thank all of you too because without your input and knowledge I may have never figured out this problem. Funny how several docs never noticed or said anything about the duckfootedness.
