Never was a stretcher and never do any drills for running, and never will. Ice baths are a waste of time. I never took ice baths after the marathons I did, or the 50K.
what stretches & drills does everyone do?
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And the OP had written:
"Another part of me reads that soc doc stuff and thinks he's a loon trying to make a few quid (bucks) from the next fad."
All I know is I asked nicely for him to elaborate on some stuff he was claiming was partialy responsible for Caballo Blanco's death while implying an overtraining connection, yet he responded by taking his socks and going home.
I also think he really believes in his message, but is probably a bit over the top regarding the no stretching thing.
It can't be as simple as that.
Mine was also a stand that I put under my computer and took with my everywhere. It was not solid, it was just a hallow box made out of really sturdy wood.
It's been discussed before:
Here, for example
You all know about the professional athletes being stuffed into ice-chambers during halftime, right?
Hi farmer,
IMO the no-stretching rule is too extreme, certainly not a one-size-fits-all recommendation.
You mention plantar fasciitis. Make sure to read this thread, especially Jimmy Hart´s replies.
http://www.thebarefootrunners.org/threads/pf-and-new-shoes-brooks-pure-flow.6795/page-2#post-68467
I recently started to include elements of Mark Verstegen´s "Core Performance" program.
http://www.amazon.com/The-Core-Perf...d=1341388203&sr=1-1&keywords=core+performance
It is very comprehensive and includes (instead of classic stretching) "movement preparation", but also exercises for strength, flexibility, balance, springiness and regeneration. (Rolling and ice-baths appear in the latter, too). The body´s core is one major focus. It seems sound and very efficient, options for adjusting into a tight schedule are offered.
This makes far more sense than the extreme position "don´t stretch", IMO.
IMO the no-stretching rule is too extreme, certainly not a one-size-fits-all recommendation.
You mention plantar fasciitis. Make sure to read this thread, especially Jimmy Hart´s replies.
http://www.thebarefootrunners.org/threads/pf-and-new-shoes-brooks-pure-flow.6795/page-2#post-68467
I recently started to include elements of Mark Verstegen´s "Core Performance" program.
http://www.amazon.com/The-Core-Perf...d=1341388203&sr=1-1&keywords=core+performance
It is very comprehensive and includes (instead of classic stretching) "movement preparation", but also exercises for strength, flexibility, balance, springiness and regeneration. (Rolling and ice-baths appear in the latter, too). The body´s core is one major focus. It seems sound and very efficient, options for adjusting into a tight schedule are offered.
This makes far more sense than the extreme position "don´t stretch", IMO.
the power of the internet.... ask a question about a subject which you're *slightly* confused about, and then end up *totally* confused! 
seriously though, thanks for all the responses, it's great to have so many different option to think about.
so, I tried not stretching last night.... instead I spent some time massaging my "trigger points" on the inside of my calf, just under my shin bone. I also did a bit of squatting and ankle bending stuff. This morning my legs are soooooooooooooo tight! They are clearly angry with me! My walk to work was filled by trying to analyse which muscles ached the most... not fun! I know that the sock fellow doesn't *really* advocate no stretching, it's just no static stretching, but unless I'm missing something, the only alternatives he offers seems to things like massage/rolling and building up foot muscles.
The one bit of the sock doc write-up that I did like was when we talks about the lasting effects of stretching, or lack of. I'm a great example of this - after a few months of stretching morning and night, I can (could) happily bend down and touch my toes whenever required. With a little time in that position, correct breathing, etc, I could eventually get knuckles to the ground. After missing out just 2 stretching routines (last night and this morning) I found that I couldn't get closer than about 4 inches above my toes! with a little time, I did eventually manage to touch my toes, but it wasn't comfy. If all of this stretching can be undone by just 2 missed sessions, is it really making that much difference?
I do keep coming back to the question of "what would paleo man have done?"... I guess the simplest answer is that paleo man wouldn't have gotten into this state in the first place! Sadly, that doesn't help me much in the hear and now.
Clearly I need to do more reading on the subject, so thanks for all the book & web links. One very practical question which I hope you could answer is; Is it still widely understood that doing any sort of exercise straight after you get out of bed is bad for you? My understanding is that you need some time (who knows how long!?) to warm your muscles back up. This is perhaps my biggest mental hurdle at the moment, simply because of fitting the correct exercises into the routine... routine currently:
wake up
shave
shower
brush teeth & do hair
do 15 mins of static stretching
drink smoothie/juice and then walk 2.2 miles to work
eat toast at work...
so, if I was to need to do more active stretching/moving as part of my routine, then I wouldn't want to be getting all hot & sweaty after my shower.... ergo, it has to happen before - but here lies my fear about not being warmed up enough... I imagine that routine would have to be something like:
wake up
shave
brush teeth
15/20 mins of active stuff (perhaps even some sun salutations as well)
shower
off to work...
that would probably only give me about 10 mins of "warming up" time before doing stuff..... sensible? I guess I could still keep doing the passive stretching stuff in the evening, before bed, as that is essentially stretching things out after a day of activity. It would really help to get some examples of other real-world routines which work for people.
willie - apologies chap, I completely missed the flag! Thanks for the explanation though, I'm glad it doesn't actually involve buckets and buckets of ice.
desks - I'll have a google around and see if I can find some examples of these home-made sit/stand desks. I work on a laptop currently, so perhaps that lends itself rather nicely.... I'm still not sure I can get away with it in the office though.
Thanks
BF Farmer
seriously though, thanks for all the responses, it's great to have so many different option to think about.
so, I tried not stretching last night.... instead I spent some time massaging my "trigger points" on the inside of my calf, just under my shin bone. I also did a bit of squatting and ankle bending stuff. This morning my legs are soooooooooooooo tight! They are clearly angry with me! My walk to work was filled by trying to analyse which muscles ached the most... not fun! I know that the sock fellow doesn't *really* advocate no stretching, it's just no static stretching, but unless I'm missing something, the only alternatives he offers seems to things like massage/rolling and building up foot muscles.
The one bit of the sock doc write-up that I did like was when we talks about the lasting effects of stretching, or lack of. I'm a great example of this - after a few months of stretching morning and night, I can (could) happily bend down and touch my toes whenever required. With a little time in that position, correct breathing, etc, I could eventually get knuckles to the ground. After missing out just 2 stretching routines (last night and this morning) I found that I couldn't get closer than about 4 inches above my toes! with a little time, I did eventually manage to touch my toes, but it wasn't comfy. If all of this stretching can be undone by just 2 missed sessions, is it really making that much difference?
I do keep coming back to the question of "what would paleo man have done?"... I guess the simplest answer is that paleo man wouldn't have gotten into this state in the first place! Sadly, that doesn't help me much in the hear and now.
Clearly I need to do more reading on the subject, so thanks for all the book & web links. One very practical question which I hope you could answer is; Is it still widely understood that doing any sort of exercise straight after you get out of bed is bad for you? My understanding is that you need some time (who knows how long!?) to warm your muscles back up. This is perhaps my biggest mental hurdle at the moment, simply because of fitting the correct exercises into the routine... routine currently:
wake up
shave
shower
brush teeth & do hair
do 15 mins of static stretching
drink smoothie/juice and then walk 2.2 miles to work
eat toast at work...
so, if I was to need to do more active stretching/moving as part of my routine, then I wouldn't want to be getting all hot & sweaty after my shower.... ergo, it has to happen before - but here lies my fear about not being warmed up enough... I imagine that routine would have to be something like:
wake up
shave
brush teeth
15/20 mins of active stuff (perhaps even some sun salutations as well)
shower
off to work...
that would probably only give me about 10 mins of "warming up" time before doing stuff..... sensible? I guess I could still keep doing the passive stretching stuff in the evening, before bed, as that is essentially stretching things out after a day of activity. It would really help to get some examples of other real-world routines which work for people.
willie - apologies chap, I completely missed the flag!
Thanks for the explanation though, I'm glad it doesn't actually involve buckets and buckets of ice.desks - I'll have a google around and see if I can find some examples of these home-made sit/stand desks. I work on a laptop currently, so perhaps that lends itself rather nicely.... I'm still not sure I can get away with it in the office though.
Thanks
BF Farmer
nice post, Farmer! My routine (back when I was actually training for things like races), more or less:
Wake up
Stretch out the stiffness a little while getting suited up
Run
Shower (yes, c-c-c-cold)
Eat a light breakfast
Brush teeth
Work
Run again
Shower again (or just rinse)
Goof around till bedtime....
Repeat
Wake up
Stretch out the stiffness a little while getting suited up
Run
Shower (yes, c-c-c-cold)
Eat a light breakfast
Brush teeth
Work
Run again
Shower again (or just rinse)
Goof around till bedtime....
Repeat
Hi Joe - I flipped through that book while waiting for a P/T appointment, and saw some exercies with physioballs that I immediately started doing at home - GREAT!
Glad you posted the link because now I know which book it was, and I'm ordering it now
I also subscribe to that principle: do what the pros do, because there's millions of dollars at stake, and every second or centimeter counts. But I'm not sure I want my testicles migrating back to their original position.
well.... tbh, that isn't really my attitude, I was doing the ice bath thing long before I'd learned about the halftime cryo-therapy. But it's true, these teams invest god-awful sums into eeking out the slightest edge and there's not a one these days, in any sport afaik, that doesn't do the ice thing. I'm pretty sure part of their strategy, though, is a general lowering of the body temperature, which basically gives the athletes a boost in energy. They're not necessarily doing it to prevent DOMS or lower injury-rates; those things are more a kind of side-effect (as I understand it).
That's my understanding too. Static stretching should only be done once the muscles are warmed up, although I do touch the ground and do a few other quick stretches before setting off on a run, or beginning my weights.
I would add that there is also some consensus that certain types of injuries should not be treated with stretching, and that extreme flexibility is mostly useless unless you're doing a martial art or gymnastics or something, although it can be fun to attain for its own sake. If you read the comments section of Soc Docs original post, you'll see he virtually defines stretching out of existence once all the proper qualifications are in place. Medical professions aren't generally known for making extreme, bold, absolutist statements, so it's hard not to interpret his 'stretching is for bozos' campaign as an blatant attempt to build his brand. That kind of simple-minded marketing is usually reserved for beer and cosmetics and the like. That said, I do like his holistic approach to health and fitness.
Yah, I didn't mean it in the sense that you're doing it because they're doing it, but rather that you're probably safe in justifying the practice because the pros do it. There are a lots of things I wouldn't do that pros do--like take performance enhancing drugs, or sacrifice long-term health for short-term performance goals--but whenever I wonder about the reasonableness of a given technique or training protocol, or some new fitness fad, I do find it useful to ask that question, kind of like the fitness version of the bumper sticker "what would Jesus (Buddha?) do" intended as a guideline for social behavior. When I was wondering about all the talk about barefoot running technique, it was useful to read up on what elite runners do, which turns out to be pretty much the same thing, in terms of proper form, and they had theorized it in more scientific terms, over a very long period of time (although of course the ideas are still evolving). Same with weight-training etc. What are the pros doing? I don't care what some fitness guru says about the 'core' (which doesn't really exist), for example, unless they work with the pros.
Flexibility as one gets older is still nice, it helps to curb our little aches and pains as we age, also helps with the golf game and allows us to still wear shoes that tie up with laces as opposed to slipons.
Oh, I don't know if someone has already mentioned this, but you (Adam) asked about drills. Dr. Mark's video at the Natural Running Center has a part with some drills in it. I haven't tried them, but they look interesting.
Oh yeah, that was a great video and awesome drills. I like the to look at them but I never physically do them myself, maybe I should. My time is so limited that I just hit the door running instead of worrying about the extra stuff.
Yah, that's where I'm at. There are several things I'd like to try, but I got a routine that more or less works for me, and little time or energy to work in new stuff, although I did just make a homemade t-bar and have done some kettlebell swings with it right after I do my deadlifts and power cleans. It seems like a good 'finishing exercise' for those kinds of lifts.
Ok, you asked for it (this isn't a runner's routine per se, but rather a run-centric fitness routine):
Day 1: run (hills 4-5 miles)
Day 2: weights (fr or bk) & row (30 minutes steady)
Day 3: run (fartleks 4-5 miles)
Day 4: weights (fr or bk) & row (30 minutes steady)
Day 5: run (steady pace 5-6 miles)
Day 6: weights (fr or bk) & row (10-15 minutes max pace)
Day 7: rest, or begin cycle again.
For weights I alternate between back and front stuff, always starting out with the heaviest weights--deadlifts and bench presses--which I pyramid, everything else I just do 2-3 sets, 5-10 reps of the same weight but sometimes add a bit for the last set. I take short breaks between each set walking back and forth. It takes about thirty minutes to work through each routine.
For the back I do the following: Dead Lift, Power clean, kettlebell swing (with t-bar), Squat, Bent over row (dumbbell), Front pull down, Back pull down, Seated row, Triceps—standing extension, Triceps—lying extension, Ab wheel, Sit-ups, some Kicks.
For the front, I do: Bench press, Flies, Shoulder/military press, Shoulder raises side and front with dumbbells, Cables, Upright row, Curls, Dips, Bicycle sit ups & leg lifts, some strikes.
With time I hope to add mileage to my runs, but only after I can run an 8-minute pace on my steady pace run.
I try to do a little stretching after each workout.
I know there are different schools of thought (on just about everything) but I'm just curious why this approach made more sense to you, as opposed to the contrary......adding mileage to get to an 8-minute pace ?
