Video barefoot jschwab beats shod buff guy

jschwab

jschwab

Barefooters
Jun 16, 2010
940
0
16
#1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wDzpBWXZPM



If you look at my side view I look like I am barely moving, maybe just powerwalking but I pass the bouncy shod guy easily. I was probably moving along at 10:15-10:20 pace at this point. Don't pay attention to my lack of motion control up top, either - it's a ittle embarrassing but those mega compression bras slow me down.
 
#3
Personally, I think he was

Personally, I think he was being a bit lazy about the race - we neck and necked it the whole way jostling for position but he had a sprint left in the final yards. I think by that time he was so determined not be be beat by the barefoot lady, he pulled it out right before the chute.

I feel like he looks like he is running/jogging though and I look like I am walking and if you looked at separate videos, he would be pegged as the faster, when in reality we finished in nearly identical time. I'm interested in any comments on my form for improvement. The race officials were very surprised by my time, which was kind of front of the back of the pack for this race - I finished with alot of people.
 
#4
sweet!I have been noticing

sweet!

I have been noticing this kind of speed difference lately. Running with smaller faster steps looks like less work and therefore gives an impression of being slower overall. But it's not!

I'm not qualified to give any critique of your form but it is clear from the video you are running in a totally different way than other people and something about it is working for you.

nice job.
 
#5
I can't crtique form either,

I can't crtique form either, since I'm sure mine sucks, but yours seems to mirror his somewhat. You have nice legs too, Jschwab!
 
#6
I think I can't tell if it's

I think I can't tell if it's normal for barefoot because hubby runs exactly like me even though we have very different bodies - he's very thin and compact although we both have kind of short legs and longer torsos. So I don't know if it's a barefoot thing or just that we run weird? I definitely ran more "normal" when I wore NB 790's all the time. I also don't get why my back is so straight up and down - this is something that is even more pronounced in hubby. I have a good back in terms of lumbar curvature, etc. and no back problems so it is not a compensation thing - just not loose at all. I feel like there are very few videos of barefoot runners that are reliable in terms of form, knowing that the person has been at it for a awhile and really has it down.
 
#7
I think your form is spot

I think your form is spot on! My only recomendation would be to bend your knees more, which might eliminate some of your bounce, although you don't bounce much at all so really, you are doing great! The fact that you look like you should be moving slower, but are infact going faster than the buff guy, shows how much more efficient barefoot form is. Your straight back and low shuffle are exactly what you are going for. BF form looks funny to the average person, but it works like a charm. That straight back is why I can run more than 7 miles now without my lower back spasming!

I bet buff guy spends lot of time with weights and not much time on cardio. I also bet that he steps up his cardio after having to struggle so hard to beat you :)
 
#9
 Jschwab, you seem to be

Jschwab, you seem to be saying that what you're doing feels comfortable and you're enjoying yourself... you look happy in the vid. You're also going faster than one might expect. So who cares whether you run weird or not? It seems to be working!

One of the great things about BFR is that it doesn't really have an ideal form. Sure there will be some things that accomplished practitioners have in common, but it's not going to be like synchronized swimming.

So here's my completely nonexpert opinion of what's GOOD about your form.
  • You don't look like you're wasting much energy on going up and down. Compare yourself to the bouncy guy.
  • Similarly, you're not wasting any energy on an exaggerated forward lean from the hips.
  • Your cadence is fairly high.. it was hard for me to count, but it looks like it's definitely above 170 and perhaps often higher.
  • You're smiling and not gasping.
For all those reasons your true rate of speed is surprisingly high for someone who doesn't look like they're working very hard.

Here are a few things I think maybe you could experiment with, to see if they make you feel even better.
  • Your arms and wrists somehow seem like they're not completely involved and maybe are holding you back somehow. (Try as an exercise, running without using your arms at all, and you'll see how much they can hold you back.)
  • They are swinging front and back (instead of side to side), which is good, but I wonder if the bend at the elbows is too little. If you bend more, they should swing a bit faster (because the arm is a pendulum and its center of gravity will be moved up more toward the shoulder). Also, not sure if there is anything to this, but you might feel more "purpose" in your hands if you didn't bend the wrists. I've been told to use a loose fist... like you're holding a stick or something.
  • Once your arms start swinging faster, I wonder if your hips might get a bit more involved. Chi running (which is a rigid system but does have some good ideas) has this great concept of rotating your hip back to go faster... it lengthens the stride without making your foot land too far forward.
Anyway, those are just things to play with. Your body will tell you if they make any sense.

Keep on truckin...
 
#10
To me you looked like you are

To me you looked like you are landing nice and light, which is one of the main benefits of BFR.



Shod guy is plodding, probably ruining his joints.



I'll stop short of refering to him as buff guy, for all you know from the video he may be

running to try to trim down on some fat, many taller people that appear fit in cloths look quite the opposite when scrutinized without cover.
 
#11
I ran a 3.25-miler tonight

I ran a 3.25-miler tonight with a friend and her 10 year old daughter (she wants to work up her miles but didn't want to go too far), and I noticed that she runs just like you, JSchwab, and you both have the same build. What I liked about her/your stride was that is was low, comfortable, and sweeping. Having your back strong and strait can only benefit you in the long run (pun intended). I really like what the others here are saying. I need to video myself run now.
 
#12
Once he got sweaty, I could

Once he got sweaty, I could see shod guy "under his clothes" - he was buffed out, but definitely not built for speed :) He was very annoyed he had such a hard time keeping with me - this video is the first time I passed him and he looks relaxed. Later is the race he was much more stressed about it.

This is all really helpful, guys, especially all the positive comments that this is the way it's supposed to be. The arm thing is weird. I tend to really drop my arms down on the uphill (which this video portion is) - not sure why, but I feel like it opens up my chest for the effort? I also have tended since going barefoot to adopt the limp wrist, also not sure why. The bra I am wearing is an underwire that is about 2 sizes too big and my arms were catching on the wires which may have thrown things off (not completely bra free, Wendy - just bra minimalist). I think it is a testament to my smooth, bouncefree running that I would be perfectly happy bra free with DDD's. Sorry if TMI - seems relevant.

I do think I could become more dynamic through the hips and have been working on that. I had a pelvic injury last November and I've had twice-weekly ART and chiro adjustments for it, but I still seem very "fixated" in that area, maybe from training my muscles to compensate (I have a sports hernia where the six pack muscle tore away from the bone at its base). I am working alot on my core and creating more dynamic movement in that area, but I've only just begun (up until just a few weeks ago a plank, for instance, was impossible because of the weakness from the tear).

I think barefoot was less of a sharp turn for me in terms of form than it is for some people. I have always been a pretty efficient, smooth runner (less charitably said - a "shuffler") with hardly any bounce - never wore any more shoe than NB 790's which I think helped me develop that lightness from the beginning. For my size (I weigh about 210 today) I am relatively fast in comparison to other runners I know who have similar training and experience. When I've checked my cadence it is 180 on a normal day, about 165-175 if the heat is ridiculous, so that seems pretty good. I will definitely keep working on finetuning the arms and getting more movement through my hips.
 
#13
fantastic job Schwab!

fantastic job Schwab!
 
#14
I should also direct you to

I should also direct you to the website of the store that held the race http://www.brynmawrrunningco.com. I am not by nature an in your face kind of person and I got nervous when I saw the anti-barefoot manifesto at the bottom of the page. I just reread it and it is harsher than I remembered - .http://www.brynmawrrunningco.com/debate.html. I think I represented barefoot running well, in any case, and probably proved that anyone can run barefoot and not kill themselves doing so, no matter how genetically challenged they are as a runner. I hope they take heed and pay attention. The guys from the other suburban running company are old enough to remember how everyone ran in minimalist shoes at one time and are totally interested in and accepting of the trend - I mean, it's not like there is no money to be made off of it. It's interesting to see which shops are willing to be openly hostile to customers.
 
#15
Yeah, the statement on the

Yeah, the statement on the site is quite negative. (I admit I didn't read the whole thing as it was long...just skimmed.)

One thing that's interesting to me.... Clearly running stores are seeing the writing on the walls; barefoot running is exploding in popularity. They probably don't particularly like the fact that that they've lost high-profit shoe purchasers. But why don't they start selling VFFs, ZEMs, etc., etc.? In my area, I could get VFFs at REI but not at the running specialty store. I'm certainly not asking running stores to stop selling running shoes, but if they truly believe we're all unique as they say, wouldn't they want to cater to the customers who want minimalist shoes, even if they think we're crazy?

Instead of poking little pins in Christopher McDougall voodoo dolls, they should be calling up Vibram to have a chat.

Okay, I made up the voodoo dolls part. But I can imagine that happening.
 
#16
My local running store had a

My local running store had a open meeting/ discussion recently about barefoot running. It was great. There was a MD specialist who heads-up sports medicine research at UK, a physical trainer, an old salty runner (who also was the owner of the store), and myself.

Being the least qualified to give advice, I felt like they heard me out and even supported a few of my points. Though afterward, the owner told me he was afraid I was going to come in there and tell everyone that shoes are the devil or something like that.

It was refreshing to be welcomed into a "running" store, but I think they also wanted me to promote VFFs since they'll be selling them soon. This store also offers the BRS KY Chapter members a 10% discount.



P.S. Great job jschwab! You're awesome!
 
#17
Liz--Awesome that they will

Liz--Awesome that they will be selling VFFs!! I hope our local running store chain follows suit!
 
#18
When I skimmed the article

When I skimmed the article the part about "everyone is different" popped out at me and I thought it was OK. Then I went back and read it and they basically say only elite should wear things like Nike Free's and nobody should wear them every day. They are not only against barefoot/minimalist in our sense, but in the wider sense of the word (Nike Free's, Kinvara, etc.). I don't know how they can sell any shoes with that attitude. Their "trust us" attitude at the end is so patronizing.
 
#20
In April, 2010, I bought my

In April, 2010, I bought my VFF Treks. I got them @ Backwoods, here in Tulsa. When the Bikilas came out, I was ooohhh, gotta have those...you know...so I could run on the "road", because you could tell by looking at them that the Treks were "trail shoes", not "road shoes". ;)

Well, I kept calling the two local stores that carry VFF (neither of which is a running store) and asking "When will you get Bikilas?" They said, "well, we never know what we're going to get...until it gets here". So, I guess I'm supposed to believe that they have some kind of standing order with Vibram to "just ship us whatever the heck you want to".

I read something that said the Bikilas were going to be marketed through running shoe stores. So, I start calling local shoe stores. Replies ranged from "we do not carry them" to "well, we can special order you some".

Dang guys...if I wanted to "order" them, I would just go online and do that. Crap, I'm trying to buy local...

Long story short, I went online and finally found some. 4 days later...Bikilas!

When I look around the running stores and I see half the store taken up w/shoes (and let's not forget all the freakin' orthotic inserts), I wonder how many of these places will be around in 10 years...and how many runners they will have turned away from the sport.

All I'm asking is that they treat me like a runner...sell me some minimalist shoes (last I checked, minimalist shoes were still counted as "shoes"). Sell me some clothes and accessories. But don't treat me like I've got the plague, or you'll drive me online. I won't complain (out loud to you), I'll just take my toys ($$) and leave.

Sorry for the rant...sometimes they just p**s me off!!
 
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