Maffetone Method...what's your experience with it?

Each of the 3 or 4 speed zones offers some speed improvement, the Maff low heart rate part covers your very basic overall aerobic fitness...the faster speed zones offer improvement but peak sooner and increase the injury risk. I limit the faster speed running to 10 - 20 % of my total miles and sorta ration the fast miles as needed to keep my speed improving when building up my base miles. Running hills is always good but I run extra slow up the hills and fast down the hills...its like free speed training without spiking your heart rate.

Basic old runner saying is "run mostly slow sometimes fast" is still true, even the faster elite marathon runners run very slow on their everyday running compared to their race speeds.
Thanks for responding Mokaman. That's my understanding too, that the elite long-distance guys do mostly long slow, but also mix it up with tempo, hills, sprints, etc. What seems new in the Maf method is doing away with the latter completely until a certain heart rate and pace goal has been reached. If it really works, I would consider that, but it's so much fun running faster, that I'd really like convincing evidence from my fellow recreational to semi-competitive barefoot runners before committing. If it's just a matter of Maffing it once a week, I'm in without hestitation. Why not? It would only involve running marginally slower than I already do on my long run, and a friend has given me his HR monitor, so there'd be no extra expense involved.
 
BL, you are wise to question the effectiveness of MAF when others are making multiple changes. I have made no changes other than closely monitoring my HR during my runs.

It took a couple of months to start to see changes and I saw massive changes in pace vs. HR at about the 8-12 week point. Now that I am several months into the program, I have seen slow increases in pace vs. HR and not nearly as dramatic as it once was. Now, mainly I have seen my resting HR dropping a few beats per month.

Now that the temps are on the rise, my pace will slow to maintain HR. I'm not looking forward to having to start my runs at 0430, but, hey, what can you do? During last year's record heat in the Lonestar State, I was in the middle of training for MCM (as I will be this year also), and the first cold front that dropped the temps into the 60s resulted in a nearly 2:00 per mile reduction in mile times over a 10 mile run! The effect of heat is dramatic!

Keep pressing, folks!
Thanks for the long response Pilotrunner. One question: How long had you been running previous to adopting the Maf method, and did you do speed/hill/tempo work then?
 
I guess that's what I'm getting at--you have multiple variables there. I'm not taking a position, but I would like to hear from someone who noticed an increase in their improvement while holding everything constant except lowering their heart rate.

So, for me pretty much all I have done over the last 6 months is barefoot MAF and a half marathon and I have made those gains. Not intervals or temp runs, no change in diet, or footwear only MAF usually every other day. A good is the The Big Book of Endurance by Dr Maffertone? All the best BL.
 
So, for me pretty much all I have done over the last 6 months is barefoot MAF and a half marathon and I have made those gains. Not intervals or temp runs, no change in diet, or footwear only MAF usually every other day. A good is the The Big Book of Endurance by Dr Maffertone? All the best BL.
Thanks Barefoot Marc, that's most helpful. I'll see if I can find a good copy used. But just to check: were your distances and frequency of runs also the same?
 
Thanks Barefoot Marc, that's most helpful. I'll see if I can find a good copy used. But just to check: were your distances and frequency of runs also the same?
BL, the frequency has been the same, every other day and the distance has been similar. You can probably get a better deal on the Maffertone Method which is his older book but has similar information. I have also found that running MAF has kept me injury free, focusing on form. MAF is just one way to go out of many and it is not for everyone. My plan was to stick with it until June when I am going to start adding some tempo runs so that I can add another dimension as I get ready for some shorter running and rowing races. All the best.
 
the elite long-distance guys do mostly long slow, but also mix it up with tempo, hills, sprints, etc. What seems new in the Maf method is doing away with the latter completely until a certain heart rate and pace goal has been reached.

Maff style running doesn't do away with the faster running, its just a matter when you use it. Once your slow speed levels out then you know its time to add in a little bit of faster pace running preferably at your half marathon pace to 10k pace. So you work this from both ends, they complement each other.

You can mix in the faster running from the beginning if you want to but only 10 - 20 % would be wise due to the risk of injury but its a limited resource so i like to use it where it has the most effect. The younger you are the less the injury risk on the faster running so you have to gauge that part yourself.
 
First customer review for the "The Big Book of Endurance" was Dr. Cucuzzella, and it was just $15.30 new with free shipping. I bought it. I also got Daniels's book in the pipe, so it'll be an interesting comparison.
The Big Book does have some great new stuff in it as well. I keep learning from it. Enjoy!
 
Maff style running doesn't do away with the faster running, its just a matter when you use it. Once your slow speed levels out then you know its time to add in a little bit of faster pace running preferably at your half marathon pace to 10k pace. So you work this from both ends, they complement each other.

You can mix in the faster running from the beginning if you want to but only 10 - 20 % would be wise due to the risk of injury but its a limited resource so i like to use it where it has the most effect. The younger you are the less the injury risk on the faster running so you have to gauge that part yourself.
I am with mokaman on this. The great thing I have found is that after some months of MAF it feels like there is more horsepower when you do run faster.
 
I am with mokaman on this. The great thing I have found is that after some months of MAF it feels like there is more horsepower when you do run faster.
That was my understanding too. It's a question of when to start the faster stuff. I want to do it now, once a week, but using the Maf method I would have to wait. I'll read the book, and if I try it, let you guys know how it worked for me in 6-12 months' time. Thanks again for input!
 
Thanks for responding Mokaman. That's my understanding too, that the elite long-distance guys do mostly long slow, but also mix it up with tempo, hills, sprints, etc. What seems new in the Maf method is doing away with the latter completely until a certain heart rate and pace goal has been reached. If it really works, I would consider that, but it's so much fun running faster, that I'd really like convincing evidence from my fellow recreational to semi-competitive barefoot runners before committing. If it's just a matter of Maffing it once a week, I'm in without hestitation. Why not? It would only involve running marginally slower than I already do on my long run, and a friend has given me his HR monitor, so there'd be no extra expense involved.

Hey Le,

the thing that Maffetone works on is a period of base building first, where all runs (and in my case cycling and rowing as well) were done at MAF HR level or lower. You need to be doing it over the longer term consistently. That is what really trains the aerobic system so that you should then be abel to run faster when aerobic, so that you are not relying on the more limited (in duration) anaerobic all through a race and then when you do kick in the anaerobic it is much more effective.

From September to December last year I did only aerobic work, with one tempo session and then took over a minute off my 10km PB. I think I could have taken more off it as well. I then did a couple more races and then went back to another shorter base building period. I'd planned to do that until mid March, but noticed a slight drop off in performance, so I started mixing in some long intervals on the bike ready for the TT season.

The other thing I've noticed is that since I've started doing longer runs of 2hrs plus, my pace on shorter runs has started coming down again.
 
Firstly, I think the important thing to note is not whether or not your pace is getting faster overall but rather if it is getting faster at a certain HR. Maff training is designed to improve your aerobic system and the subsequent benefit of that should be, for most people, an improvement in pace. So rather than solely looking at whether or not your absolute PB over a certain distance has improved you need to look at whether your PB over that distance whilst staying within your aerobic zone has improved. In this way you will be able to see if your aerobic system is improving. That is why the Maff test is the cornerstone of the Maff training program. It's also why, as NickW points out, it may be more beneficial to do another type of training if you have reached a plateau with your Maff training.

Secondly, I can only speak for my own experience so here goes........

I have only changed the pace I run at and the amount I run. My pace is dictated by my HR and I stick to 137 or below. The amount I run, both the distance per run and number of runs per week, I have increased substantially. The greater distances may be where the improvement has come from but greater time spent running is part of the Maff training program anyway. Further, there is no way I could have run the distances I now run whilst going at my old pace anyway both because of injuries and because my runs would wipe me out too much. My Kung Fu practice remains the same, diet the same, swimming the same, work the same. I'm as close to having changed nothing but pace and time(the two main aspects of Maff training) as one can get I think.

I've seen my MAF pace go from an average 10:30min/km to 7:20min/km in approximately 3.5 months.(4.5 total but about 1 month total non running related injury time) I've never seen an improvement of that nature in the past regardless of the type of training I was doing.
 
I'm with you PKKFW, very similar in that I've not changed much overall.

I think my overall training load had gone up and the balance has shifted more towards running. I think the question on the minds of the undecided posters is whether the effect is that by running at lower HR, you can increase volume and then the increased fitness comes about as the effect, or whether the running at a lower HR increases fitness, which then allows you to run more.

It's a subtle disctinction and personally I don't think it's as simple as that with both effects probably going together.

You've made some really big improvements there, great to see it. My pace improvement is not so significnat, but my early MAF tests did not have a big drop off from start to finish showinga fairly good aerobic funtion to start with - I've followed years of HR controlled programmes on the bike and rower. I've gained some pace, but I've seen a drop off of HR at pace, which was my trigger to start throwing in some harder sessions whether in duration or pace including the odd bike race.

Keep at it, it looks like it's producing good results for you
 
Thanks for responding Ely Dave and PKFFW. I should've explained that I already have a casual familiarity with the principles of the Maffetone method. You both make a convincing case for it. I don't know if I could give up my weights for 3-6 months while I'm building the aerobic base, especially since I've been making some real progress on them for the last few months, but it's definitely something to consider if having a better base will allow me to train harder in the long run. I did once have a tremendous aerobic base, twenty years ago when I traveled by bicycle for two years, averaging about 8 hours a day in the saddle on traveling days.

One final question: if I maintain a Maff HR while running and rowing, but continue to do low intensity strength training three times a week, do you think it might still be possible to build a decent aerobic base?
 
MAff does say any weights training will be anaerobic and therefore should be avoided for best results whilst building a base. However, he also says everyone is different and some people can cope quite well with small amounts of anaerobic stuff whilst base building. What it comes down to is whether or not your Maff test shows your aerobic base is still improving. If it shows aerobic times have plateaued, or worse, are beginning to decline, then it's possible you are doing too much anaerobic stuff and that is adversely effecting your base building phase and you may wish to consider doing less anaerobic stuff or even cut it out altogether.
 
I'm with you PKKFW, very similar in that I've not changed much overall.

I think my overall training load had gone up and the balance has shifted more towards running. I think the question on the minds of the undecided posters is whether the effect is that by running at lower HR, you can increase volume and then the increased fitness comes about as the effect, or whether the running at a lower HR increases fitness, which then allows you to run more.

It's a subtle disctinction and personally I don't think it's as simple as that with both effects probably going together.

You've made some really big improvements there, great to see it. My pace improvement is not so significnat, but my early MAF tests did not have a big drop off from start to finish showinga fairly good aerobic funtion to start with - I've followed years of HR controlled programmes on the bike and rower. I've gained some pace, but I've seen a drop off of HR at pace, which was my trigger to start throwing in some harder sessions whether in duration or pace including the odd bike race.

Keep at it, it looks like it's producing good results for you
Thanks ElyDave. Maff training is producing great results for me. I do think my improvement does illustrate an important fact though. Those with the weakest aerobic base to begin with will very likely see the best results, at least when they first start Maff training. My initial Maff tests showed a big drop in pace from start to finish, indicating a very poor aerobic base. That doesn't surprise me when I consider pretty much all of my training previous to Maff was high intensity stuff.
 
Thanks ElyDave. Maff training is producing great results for me. I do think my improvement does illustrate an important fact though. Those with the weakest aerobic base to begin with will very likely see the best results, at least when they first start Maff training. My initial Maff tests showed a big drop in pace from start to finish, indicating a very poor aerobic base. That doesn't surprise me when I consider pretty much all of my training previous to Maff was high intensity stuff.
You can't argue with success and both you and ElyDave are producing great results with the Maff Method. But after a little more research (procrastination from my real work) it seems that most elite endurance athletes use a 80-20 mix of high-volume, low intensity to low-volume, high intensity training. Here's a fairly technical article explaining it if you're interested. Cheers!
www.sportsci.org/2009/ss.htm
 
You can't argue with success and both you and ElyDave are producing great results with the Maff Method. But after a little more research (procrastination from my real work) it seems that most elite endurance athletes use a 80-20 mix of high-volume, low intensity to low-volume, high intensity training. Here's a fairly technical article explaining it if you're interested. Cheers!
www.sportsci.org/2009/ss.htm[/quote]

Lee, I will read the article (honest) but I just want to point out that Maffetone also suggests a mix. The main difference as far as I can tell is the base building periods which exclude the higher intensity stuff. Outside of those periods, then mix it up as you like to fit your goals and your season.
 
Yah, I guess the question is if elite endurance runners ever go through an exclusively base-building period. Nothing that I've come across so far suggests they do. I would also be interested in seeing some outside source confirm that during the base-building phase of Maff training, anything above your threshold will be detrimental to one's ability to build the base. Hope I'm not beating a dead horse here, I'm just curious.
 

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