Good, bad or neither? Racing without number or registration.

Discussion in 'Races & Events' started by El Yuca Descalzo, May 9, 2014.

  1. Barefoot TJ Administrator
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    This is a good subject, great thread.

    I have moved it to the Races forum with a redirect that will expire in one day.

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  2. Barefoot Gentile Barefooters

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    Pay the fee to run the race, or don't run it all. There is a reason you pay for a registration to run a race. Personally i can't stand bandits, just stay home or run that distance by yourself, but don't be cheapskate.

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  3. mokaman Chapter Presidents
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  4. skedaddle Barefooters
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    Labeling people as bandits or whatever is just a form of passive aggression. I'd never even heard of such terms before this thread started.
    Has anyone actually ever took the time to speak to one of these people and understand their motivations or convictions before dismissing them?
    Hell maybe one of them is working on the cure for cancer, or maybe just being naughty because they need the release. I'm naughty all the time.

    Also the right to peacefully protest is part of a democracy and should not be feared or demonized.
    Does this mean you never have to pay fees? of course not, just be aware that some people do not share your life privileges or experiences,
    take their voice away and how would you ever know.

    If you have the means to pay it's only logical that you would want support your passion, your tribe, and everything you've worked hard towards in life.
    But if somebody just wants to tag along and commune with like minded people i see no harm in that, you may actually learn something from
    them. People on the fringes have often lead interesting lives.

    Charities are set up to help those that are less fortunate or in need so how can you run a charity race and not make concessions for those that are in need,
    it makes no sense.

    People first every time in my book, we are not 'Born to Run' with conditions, sorry that just doesn't wash with me.

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  5. Hobbit Barefooters
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    I think they are called bandits, because some of them (fortunately not all) don't bring all they need in terms of water/fuel themselves. At some really needy point they do take water or stuff that has been calculated for a certain number of runners, which then is lacking for those who paid the fee. These latter quite understandably won't appreciate this situation.
    And if the non registered runners collapse because they overestimated their capacity and/or underestimated their need of fuel and water, the first aid teams (the number of which is also calculated in regard of those who are officially registered) are still obliged to come and help them as well, which means there might not be enough for everybody, in case general conditions are bad.
    This is a point of view which I think is valid for any long organized run (say from HM onwards)
    For a local short 5-10 K organized in your village, I would say it's less a problem to participate without registration/paying the fee, but then, these kinds of fee usually are rather small ...
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  6. skedaddle Barefooters
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    Thanks for the thoughtful reasoning and information Hobbit.
    I think concessions are an answer, support those in difficulty, in a dignified way, so they in turn can support the race and others.

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  7. Sid Barefooters

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    Thank you for taking the time to help me understand a bit better. If you ever find yourself in O-town, and would be agreeable to partake of my company, I'd be delighted to share some wonderful local trails with you. They're free, but no run support other than what you bring with you. No one to call you names or otherwise denigrade you, or try to tackle you. No medals though, unless Lee would like to donate some of his!
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  8. mokaman Chapter Presidents
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    I don't see any barefeet on those medals...i wonder if we could get a barefoot medal somewhere

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  9. mokaman Chapter Presidents
    1. Georgia

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    I agree racers should pay the entry fee to race but how are the bandits saving any money?

    I don't think most bandits to be a cheapskates I think its mostly a defiance thing to the big city hyped races plus just some roving spectators running for supprt of their friends/family. These are very different reasons....making fake running numbers and entering big city races trying to beat the system is different than family members running with you for a bit of distance in a race...one is like protesting the other like jaywalking.

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  10. mokaman Chapter Presidents
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    All the local people are paying for the traffic control, emergency services if there is a race or not thats not really a factor. I'm not sure about the free loading aspect, if the race was not going on and I ran the same course would I be free-loading? Other than some aid stations, a t-shirt and maybe a medal whats really different ?

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  11. skedaddle Barefooters
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    Thanks Sid i’m sure you company would be very agreeable, mine, however would be less so, you see I tend to fart a lot when i run. I don’t mean the subtle ones that can be blamed on sheep i mean ones that would make rabbit jump under a truck just to get away from them.

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  12. Sid Barefooters

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    No, worries. I can get a little gassy sometimes, too. We'll scare the rattlesnakes away. Besides, who said that you were going to lead? :D
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  13. spoonerweb Chapter Presidents
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    I almost ran in a race without registering. The race has filled the last two years and both years I could have won if I had been able to get into the race. I thought about running the course not as a race, but so I could get to know the race route. The map they show for the course isn't clear in a few spots.

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  14. El Yuca Descalzo Barefooters
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    This subject is like try to discuss about religion, politics or running shoes, everyone will have a different opinion, I’m with Bare lee, medals for everybody!!
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  15. bfsailor Barefooters

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    I'll add my 2 cents to this. Having served on a race committee for many years I can tell you that there are a LOT of expenses involved in puting on an official race. Water stops, snacks and refreshments barely enter into the equation - many smaller races get these items donated anyway.
    The big expenses are (and some of these have already been mentioned):
    • Emergency services (sometimes these are donated, but usually are paid for).
    • Insurance (required for certified races)
    • T-shirts
    • Timing services
    • Printing costs for applications
    • Bibs (or chips)
    • Prizes (trophies)
    • Course measurement and certification
    • Advertising and promotion
    Virtually all of this money is spent up-front, long before the race is run. The entry fee for the race is based on all of these costs averaged over an estimate of how many runners are expected. I've known races to lose money when the weather turns bad and day-of-race signups are below expected numbers.

    A bandit here and there is not going to hurt this equation, but if significant numbers of runners decide to bandit the race rather than pay, the race directors will not recoup money they have already spent. (By the way, the term "bandit" for this activity is nothing new - I've heard it used for decades.)

    Additionally, if traditional timing methods are used (rather than chips), bandits that actually cross the finish line cause a huge amount of chaos for those computing the results. I have seen this first hand - a few bandits crossing the finish line in a field of 300 runners delayed the results (and awards ceremony) by almost an hour.

    Count me in the "should not bandit" camp. The best suggestion has already been made - if you really can't afford to run the race, volunteer to help out with registration or post-race cleanup - most race directors will welcome the extra set of hands and gladly let you run the race for free.

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  16. skedaddle Barefooters
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    So the best suggestion for the less well off in society is to usher them into servitude before they can run. You know how that sounds right?
    I've got a better suggestion how about make things less complicated so the overheads aren't so huge, don't pander to large sports and nutrition manufacturers that demand a spectacle.

    Make the race about running again, where every competitor who stands on the start line is an equal. Where merit is measured by courage and hard work and respect for each other is forged because of it.

    That's a race!

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  17. Eldon Lee Barefooters
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    I would challenge skedaddle to organize that race. no large manufacturers, no big time big money sponsors, no fees, That would be a race! keep us posted...

    and, "servitude?" really? I think its called earning your keep.

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  18. skedaddle Barefooters
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    Yes, servitude, placing conditions on people because of their social standing is having power over them.
    It's not the same as giving someone a choice or making concessions.

    I'm not a political man but I understand the struggle of poverty, the importance of self esteem and community.

    I don't believe in hierarchies just equality and fairness for everyone.

    Why is it that people can happily debate over the folly of ill designed shoes and the damage they can cause
    but when other issues surface that are just as important to the health of a community they are demonized or swept away.
    Maybe bandits are the next barefoot runners, who knows i've never has the chance to talk to one.

    I wouldn't have the first idea of how to organize a race, but if i did i know it wouldn't be exclusive and everyone would be encouraged to tickle each other before the start.

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  19. migangelo Barefooters
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    "if you obey all the rules, you miss all the fun." Katherine Hepburn

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  20. rickwhitelaw Barefooters
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    Some of the Ultra races I am considering for the future are requiring trail work for entrance. I like the idea. If I didn't or don't have the time for a day of trail work, I won't enter the race. http://www.bear100.com/Race/Forms

    Anyone concerned with the importance of self esteem and community would not bandit a race which is considered by the major of runners to be wrong. Why risk being shunned by the community?

    You make very good points, I appreciate the difference of opinion. It makes for a good thread and has opened my eyes a little, but I would not think that anyone who is running the race as a bandit could not afford the race fee. I am picturing the bandit as a protester or someone who was on the fence about registering and missed the deadline. Seeing everyone else running the race and feeling left out, decides to jump in the race. When you consider the travel costs and time spent away from work, the race fee is pretty minor. Racing is expensive, but running as a bandit is not because of cost. There must be an extra thrill of doing something bad. In fact, the term "bandit" probably leads some to do it. I prefer the term "poacher".

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