First MAF run

Robbi

Barefooters
Dec 1, 2011
131
133
43
Cape Town, South Africa
Hi folks,

Well, I did my first MAF run today, 12km at a target of 133bpm. I must say, paddling along at 8:20/km felt kinda ridiculous :D. I think there were a few toddlers on route who overtook me...

Anyway, serious comments:
  • It's pretty hard to keep in the zone, but with some effort I feel I was quite successful
  • I wasn't sure what my feet would think about it - many more smaller steps over a longer time ended up with about an equal final degree of post-run tenderness.
  • I feel it mostly in my quads, but over my whole body the feeling is different, I can tell I did a lot of a different kind of work despite the slower pace.
  • I ended up with an average 8:19/km, where last week's non-MAF run was 5:57/km.
Here are 1km splits illustrating pace and HR:
Long%20Run%20-%20Maffetone%2010-27-2012%2c%20Pace.png

Long%20Run%20-%20Maffetone%2010-27-2012%2c%20Avg.%20HR.png

Kinda all over the place, but I assume with diligence the decrease in pace will smooth out.
Have a great weekend, folks!

Edit: For comparison, here's a 8km tempo run...
Regular%20Run%2010-25-2012%2c%20Avg.%20HR.png
 
Robbi,
After about six months of running at MAF (126 for me), my pace in the first km of a MAF-test starts to approach 8:20, so I don't think I would consider your running ridiculous.
On my first MAF-test, my speed averaged around 11:00 min/km, but I saw a very steady decrease, and now, after half a year, I start to feel that I have to speed up instead of slowing down to keep my HR around MAF. So there has been a gain of more than 2 min/km... But indeed, still slow. But remember: that's only training pace, you know that you can go faster...
 
The actual intent is to train aerobic systems intensively, which perhaps counter-intuitively requires exercising at low heart rates. The test just says how you're doing. I see the logic in the theory and so I'm putting it to the test. It's an interesting proposition and my curiosity has the best of me. Gotta see...
 
The actual intent is to train aerobic systems intensively, which perhaps counter-intuitively requires exercising at low heart rates. The test just says how you're doing. I see the logic in the theory and so I'm putting it to the test. It's an interesting proposition and my curiosity has the best of me. Gotta see...
Actually, that theory has been criticized, but I don't want to go there. All the best with your running. I was just being silly.
 
  • Like
Reactions: DNEchris
Wait a minute now Lee, Anne has a point. With her and MAF, she is still running, with your distance and speed method how much running has taken place? Just yanking your chain Lee, but she does have a point. I personally do not get the MAF thing either, but if that is what it takes to get some people going than it is all good. :)
 
  • Like
Reactions: DNEchris
Wait a minute now Lee, Anne has a point. With her and MAF, she is still running, with your distance and speed method how much running has taken place? Just yanking your chain Lee, but she does have a point. I personally do not get the MAF thing either, but if that is what it takes to get some people going than it is all good. :)
I know Dutchie, but the irony is my tweak happened when I was intentionally trying to slow down! And studies (to be believed or not) have shown that training volume (running long and slow), not velocity (running shorter and faster), is the best predictor of injury rates. The over training thing sticks out because that's apparently how the Maff method saved Mark Allen, and Mike has also said he was running hard and fast all the time before switching to the Maff method.

I should also point out that my tweak was an acute injury, a kind of one-off thing, apparently not related to overuse (I was only in the 15-20 mpw range when it happened). I'm pretty convinced it was due to not warming up properly, after sitting in the car running errands with my knee bent in the same position for a long time.

Nonetheless, you know I'm with you, everyone has to do what they enjoy--this is recreational running we're talking about after all. I just wanted to get in my one-liner. Should've resisted the temptation :eek: .
 
On a side note I am just like Lee. I like a mix of distance and speed for variety. My heart rate tends to be on the high side when running and I asked my doctor about that. His reply was that if that is the way I have been running for the last 30 years than I should not worry about it. Sometimes to much in the way of technology can lead to confusion. Back in the day before HR monitors we just ran. I know, we have all heard that before. It was something that I never paid attention too 30 years ago, and I do monitor it now every once in a while but I do not let it change the way I run. I can tell the when I get out of "MY" HR comfort zone while running , and adjust my effort to where I am comfortable. Back when I started my running journey (30 some years ago) we did monitor our resting heart rate. A funny side to that story was when I had emergency appendectomy. After surgery and I was in recovery a very concerned nurse paged a doctor as she thought I was not faring well. She was really concerned about my heart rate. It was very low, I think it was in the low fourties or high thirties. The doc checked me out and asked if I was a runner. I said that I was running 1 or 2 marathons per year in those days after which he pronounced that there was need for concern. Anyway, that is my 2 cents on MAF, it works for some but it is not for everyone.
 
Yah, although I've only used the HR monitor a friend gave me twice, I do pay attention to my resting heart rate. When I came back from Mozambique I was overweight and out of shape and verging on hypertension--something like 140 plus for the systolic reading. The doc wanted to give me some pills. I said wait, let me try exercising for a few months and see if that doesn't bring it down. I've been close to 120/80 ever since, and my heart rate continues to fall.
 
i raced last Sunday and broke an hour for a 10k finally. beat my time from last year by just over 10 minutes. the method works, for everyone. only problem is everyone isn't willing to work for it. you have to let go of your ego.

i'd like to know what would be my lactate threshold? can't tell me can you? ha!

sorry but don't expect any reply, if at all, for a few days. school, no internet, and such. have fun.;)
 
  • Like
Reactions: jldeleon and Sid
i raced last Sunday and broke an hour for a 10k finally. beat my time from last year by just over 10 minutes. the method works, for everyone. only problem is everyone isn't willing to work for it. you have to let go of your ego.
I respectfully disagree there Mike. Three months of strictly running at the same low Maf HR and my times added 5 min/per mile (let's put this in perspective shall we, from 12:30/mile to 17:20/mile) all at the same HR of 146! That's not what I call something that works for me. It is what it is and NOT EVERYONE IS THE SAME. There's reasons what works for one in healing PF may not work for the next person, NOT EVERYONE IS THE SAME. Ok, sorry, enough of the rant, I just hate blanket statements like that, especially when they are false in some instances.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Sid and Bare Lee
Yah, although I've only used the HR monitor a friend gave me twice, I do pay attention to my resting heart rate. When I came back from Mozambique I was overweight and out of shape and verging on hypertension--something like 140 plus for the systolic reading. The doc wanted to give me some pills. I said wait, let me try exercising for a few months and see if that doesn't bring it down. I've been close to 120/80 ever since, and my heart rate continues to fall.

Having dabbled a bit with MAF myself, I have concluded that, like Lee, my resting heart rate is almost a better indicator. It may not demonstrate that I'm burning fat more than sugar on any given run, but it definitely indicates how my training is affecting my overall fitness. I monitor my resting heart rate religiously, as soon as I wake in the morning, and have watched a slow and steady decrease when I am training properly. When I start to overdo it, my resting heart rate starts to increase, and if those increases sustain themselves for more than a couple of days, I know I'm overdoing it (or, getting sick, though I don't get sick very often). My resting heart rate when I am in a proper training zone tends to average between 42-44 bpm; if it moves into the 50s, I back off my training a bit, particularly if I'm otherwise feeling healthy.

Every "zone-based" heart rate training system has a fat-burning zone, which is one of the goals of the MAF method: to teach the body to use fat as fuel rather than glucose. And that fat-burning zone is achieved by maintaining a sustained, relatively low heart rate. Nothing particularly unusual about that. Where I and most people tend to get hung up, I think, is trying to reconcile this ultra-slow running method with a converse increase in speed. Anne's point is a good one, I think: over time, it will take increased effort to achieve and remain in the lower zone, as the cardiovascular system gets better conditioned. So, you can push harder (i.e., run faster) at the same relatively low effort.

I mix up MAF runs with non-monitored runs. I know this isn't true MAF-ing, because Dr. Phil's method is pretty specific about base-building and how non-aerobic work can wipe out any MAF gains. But I'm of the view that muscle confusion -- not letting my body predict what's coming on any given day -- is what keeps it stimulated and able to respond to various conditions, because that is what racing presents (unless you always race on indoor tracks). Whether or not I can remain injury-free using this approach remains to be seen. But I think there's a place for MAF, particularly for us newbies whose enthusiasm often trumps our good sense. I just don't tend to want to get religiously zealous about it. Like a minimalist shoe, it's a tool. If it works, I use it, perhaps adapted to the particular job, or I leave it alone.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Bare Lee
I respectfully disagree there Mike. Three months of strictly running at the same low Maf HR and my times added 5 min/per mile
Nick, you must have an iron will. I don't know that I would have the patience/diligence/persistence to adhere to a regimen that so adversely degrades my running times! I'm wondering what kept you motivated during those 3 months. Was it just sheer willpower?

I'm no adherent of the Maffetone method. Though several weeks ago, I got curious and used my old HR monitor once, just to figure out what the Maf target HR felt like. It was a nice comfortable pace, manageable with good, deep oronasal breathing. Even though I ditched the HR strap after the first run, I've stuck to that idea. If I start feeling a bit tired or the tickling of a stitch developing in my side, then I'll back off a bit. If I feel good, I'll keep going.

I aim for a moderate to high-moderate level of perceived exertion. I now look at my GPS watch less and less, and only to get an idea of what pace I'm actually running at, which tends to vary depending on the day. I've made some fairly solid gains in my aerobic base. I'm a more consistent runner, have less aches and sore spots. Although my normal run is 6 miles, I felt good last week and went for 13 and did okay. (I had previously done this distance in July while considering a half marathon). Today, I felt really good and broke my PR for my routine 6 mile run.

So, not exactly Maf, and I'm sure that my HR might have been out of the Maf range today. However, I'm making good progress. The runs are enjoyable. I'm not injured. That's all I care about. This philosophy is serving me well right now, vs. the rigid mentality of training for a half/full marathon. I'm going to stick with it as long as it works for me. I just hope that other people find what works for them, whatever method, schedule, or philosophy it may be.
 

Support Your Club

Natural Running Center

Forum statistics

Threads
19,158
Messages
183,648
Members
8,705
Latest member
Raramuri7

Latest posts