Do VFFs increase the chance of IT band syndrome?

[saypay45]

I really only have anecdotal evidence at this point, but I'm wondering what you all think. I struggled with my own IT band issues last year after training for and running a marathon in VFFs. Now a few of my VFF wearing friends are complaining of their own IT band issues as they increase their mileages.

In each case, my friends have found that the cause of their IT band pain is overstriding. Of course I never have IT band pain when I barefoot, because it's just too difficult to overstride. But sure enough...strap on some VFFs and I'm kicking too far out in front of my body.

But a lot of these same runners didn't have IT band issues in normal trainers. My theory is that this is because overstriding in trainers doesn't cause as much strain on the IT band, because your point of impact is your heel. On the other hand, your point of impact in VFFs is your forefoot or midfoot. In either case, when you overstride you have to pull yourself over your center of gravity. But in VFFs, because of how you land, I think in pulling yourself over your center of gravity, you're putting a ton more strain on your IT band than you do in trainers.

Anyone else have thoughts or similar issues?

 

[zapmamak]

I had the same IT band issues

I had the same IT band issues (I originally thought it was my runner's knee) in my shoes. Shoes, VFFs, whatever... anything on my feet I think makes me overstride. But as I'm also learning, if I can just learn to lead with my hips and lean a little the problem goes away. I have still yet to get out and do a long run in my VFFs after all my "education" but so far so good.

That being said... I think you're on to something.

 

[Barefoot Gentile]

I would say Yes!    I trained

I would say Yes! I trained last in VFF for my first marathon and came down with a bad case of IT issues. But I was new running long distances, and a good portion of that could of been in my training and ramping up mileage to quickly. But after the marathon last May, I went 100% barefoot until this past Dec. I was actually running more and didn't have any IT issues.

For the past two months I have been running in sprints, again training for my second marathon. So far no IT issues yet, but I will say I have started throwing in some barefoot runs now, just to condition myself for spring. Once I was out of the VFF's it was a world of difference. I think my relationship with Five Fingers is over. Next winter I really need a new shoe, which will probably be the merrell trail glove.



Anyways running in five fingers just screws up everything, I think.

 

[DNEchris]

Once I'd learned how to run

Once I'd learned how to run barefoot/minimalist I've had no issues with my IT bands.

I've not run barefoot since the first weekend of December and have run about 600 miles since then, mostly in Bikilas, with no problems at all.

I don't think using VFFs encourages bad technique but they may not cause the need for correction if barefoot lessons have not been well learned.

 

[Jimmy Hart]

You're close.  VFFs alone

You're close. VFFs alone will not cause any issues but it's the mind that is the culprit here. The mind will associate any layer of protection under your feet with cushioning (in most cases) because that's what it is used to. Someone who has never worn shoes will take time to create this associtation of safety where someone who has worn shoes their whole life will instantly make it. A shod runner who overstrides can put on a pair of vffs and do the same thing with minimal knowledge of the form miscue. They will feel the difference in weight and force in landing which will lessen the overstride but not always completely eliminate it. I know personally and have seen a lot of vff wearers at races and on the runing paths heel striking in their vffs without a care in the world.

Minimal shoes are a great tool for a runner to get lower to the ground and get more feedback as well as allow a barefoot runner to push further and get into rougher terrain but they alone may not teach good form. The wearer of those shoes has to think "change" when they make the switch and not just assume that by getting rid of a couple of inches of padding that they will automatically change all the years of neurological development having occured throughout their life. Going completely barefoot will cause that change because they get the pain reaction which is why many barefoot purists suggest just going cold turkey into barefoot running.

Now to your point about IT band issues in people who have switched to vffs from conventional shoes and developed the problems its going to land on two points. One is what I've already mentioned but with the addition that they had adjusted to the feeling and landing in trainers so the switch is now activating muscles in new and different ways while doing the same movement. Basically they are still heel striking but with less padding so the shock abosrption is different. This new muscle activation and increase in shock forces is causing tension in new ways which is showing in the form of IT band tightness and pain. The second option is what you mention in that the phsycis of the movement are now changed which is causing a different foot fall while still maintaining the same form. Landing on the fore or mid foot while still overstriding will cause a lot of stress through the knee and transfer that stress to the hip complex which are the connection points to the IT band. All of that will equate to the pains that you and your friends talk about.

Gotta know and constantly think "good, proper form" when you try and change mechanics that you learned in the first 3-5 years of your life.

 

[saypay45]

Very interesting Jimmy. 

Very interesting Jimmy. Thanks!

 

[Jimmy Hart]

Man I just read through what

Man I just read through what I wrote and I'm surprised you understood it! I gotta learn to think slower or type faster...one of those has to happen so I stop leaving poor grammar and spelling out there

 

[migangelo]

yeah, thanks Jimmy. now all i

yeah, thanks Jimmy. now all i have to say is i've been running longer in my vff than bf and never had any IT issues. everything else, yes.



mike

 

[jschwab]

I had problems for the first

I had problems for the first time with my IT bands in Protons this week and, yes, I am positive it is because I have not been running true barefoot at all (winter thang). I am going to suck it up and do some BF miles on the indoor track instead.

 

[dunetraveller]

Quote:  My theory is that

My theory is that this is because overstriding in trainers doesn't cause as much strain on the IT band, because your point of impact is your heel. On the other hand, your point of impact in VFFs is your forefoot or midfoot. In either case, when you overstride you have to pull yourself over your center of gravity. But in VFFs, because of how you land, I think in pulling yourself over your center of gravity, you're putting a ton more strain on your IT band than you do in trainers.

Anyone else have thoughts or similar issues?

I have felt this mostly when walking in VFFs. I try and walk with what I remember as being a "normal" stride and incorporate a forefoot strike at the same time. This has always led to IT type soreness if done too much. I have to remember good form and either bend at the knees more, or cut the stride shorter. Guess it always comes down to good form. I remember a post where this wonderful group of people (I mean this group btw), who pointed out that we ought to be teaching people how to run with shoes, and if they don't know how, take them away andmake them run barefoot until they learn form.

 

[Jimmy Hart]

Walking and running are two

Walking and running are two completely different motions which is the problem in your case Dune. Walking is considered to be a heel landing action (notice I didn't say strike). You can land on your heel all day without any real consequence if you do it softly. Walking on the forefoot is not considered a natural movement and can cause adjustment pains like the IT band getting irritated. You can adapt to it of course if you want to as there are lots of people on the planet who walk on their toes. The difference between you and them is that they probably have walked that way their entire life. My advice is to stick to shorter strides as that's an easier change to make in the form than how you land on your foot. Walk in whatever way feels natural but do so with smaller steps.

Like I said before, you can't go changing something that has been the norm for your entire life and not expect some issues in adaptation. It takes time and effort to change biomechanics that so ingrained like walking and running.

 

[dunetraveller]

Yeah... I was mostly doing it

Yeah... I was mostly doing it in the past to increase useage of my arch once I started wanting to go bf to run and knew I would have problems if I didn't strengthen the whole assembly. Once I felt I got the arches strengthened appropriately I stopped doing the forefoot walking since it is so awkward and slows me down. I just brought it up now since the tightening was something I had to adjust to and thought it fit what was being described in the original post.

Apropos of nothing, but I have noticed that it is an easier transition to go from heel walking to a jog than to go from forefoot walking to forefoot running. I think this is because one can start heel running just by pushing off hard from the toes during a stride, but I feel I have to lean forward and kind of fall into forefoot running. I have never practiced Chi running, so I am not sure if it's like that, although I do remember talk of leaning forward; it just seemed natural to begin a run by leaning forward like I was leaning into a strong gust and just go from there. Not a big delay, but one I can feel nonetheless.

 

[saypay45]

Throughout my issues with my

Throughout my issues with my IT band, I find that I have the most problems walking. Walking and standing cause my upper calf (right under the knee) and my outer knee to stiffen up and hurt. When running and weight lifting, my IT issues go away almost immediately. Very weird...

 

[C. Beth Run.]

My experience--I have had IT

My experience--I have had IT band issues in traditional running shoes, Zems, barefoot, & in VFFs. So I can't tie mine specifically to shoes since I've had it in all circumstances.

These days it's under control. I've been running in VFFs (and honestly sometimes I do overstride) but ITBS hasn't stopped any of my runs since late December. I'm still doing specific strengthening exercises & lots of rolling.

 

[stomper]

Jimmy Hart wrote:The mind

The mind will associate any layer of protection under your feet with cushioning (in most cases) because that's what it is used to...Minimal shoes are a great tool for a runner to get lower to the ground and get more feedback as well as allow a barefoot runner to push further and get into rougher terrain but they alone may not teach good form. The wearer of those shoes has to think "change" when they make the switch and not just assume that by getting rid of a couple of inches of padding that they will automatically change all the years of neurological development having occured throughout their life. Going completely barefoot will cause that change because they get the pain reaction which is why many barefoot purists suggest just going cold turkey into barefoot running.

Well said, Jimmy. This echoes something interesting that was said in that (positive, but obviously shoe-centric) "Newton Natural Running" Summit that was posted on this forum a while back. I can't remember which of the panelists brought this up, but he said that one reason that people strike so hard in padded shoes is that the mind and body are actively PROBING for sensation from the ground. Your foot is kind of craving and expecting it.

That's why I'd fall into the "purist" camp of recommending that people actually go run barefoot instead of switching into minimal shoes. It provides all the available feedback and a lot of cues about what to do, without necessitating a big mental focus on form.

Saypay, I think that your observation is just part of a bigger theme we've been developing in our discussions, which is that sometimes minimal shoes can reduce sensation enough that they encourage bad habits and maybe certain types of injuries. My guess is that if you compared new BF runners and new minimal runners, there'd be more injuries among the minimalists. This isn't a conclusion at this point -- just a hypothesis. I hope one of the longer-term surveys that is going on -- like the U of Delaware one -- will eventually shed some light on this.

 

[Jimmy Hart]

The funny thing is that we

The funny thing is that we don't need these studies to shed light on any of this. The information is out there and common sense about basic biomechanics and neurological systems will point you into the answers for just about all of the issues/questions about barefoot and minimal running injuries. The basics will also answer all the questions about conventional running shoes but people seem to be unable to just simply look at things and put it together. I've had a hard time understanding this but everyone seems to need a study to answer questions and validate things.

Saypay your IT band issues go away with the weight training because the resistance training creates balance in the muscles that the running is cannot. The body needs balance at all times as it just one giant system of counter balances. Each muscle has an opposing muscle and they both connect in the same or neighboring insertion points. Get one muscle stronger than it's counter and you throw a joint out of whack which causes issues. Use a well rounded training regimen to keep things balanced and these issues go away.

 

[saypay45]

Word Jimmy.  That's what I've

Word Jimmy. That's what I've been finding out. Doing the exercises my PT recommended religiously (again).

 

[Barefoot Dama]

It could be just a

It could be just a coincidence some people experince ITB problems when increasing mileage.

I run BF exclusively and I am having ITB issues as we speak but I know that my problems are related to my bad back and not by overtraining or overstriding.



where is the spell check?

 

[zapmamak]

I think the muscle balance is

I think the muscle balance is key. I'm learning this lesson and getting help with a training program. Its about frickin time too. I hate always being injured.

 

[txtenderfoot]

It is indeed all about muscle

It is indeed all about muscle balance! Properly training agonist and antagonist muscles is the best defense against injury, along with proper rest and diet, of course. It's so much more simple than we make it out to be . . .