Stupid Newbie Question #3

[Bare Lee]

Right, I tend to use an abbreviated notion of it, referring to the 3-4 months of extremely low HR base-building. My bad.

My conjecture is that at least some people, once they've achieved a decent level of conditioning, may benefit just as much by jumping right into speed work and avoid the 3-4 months of base-building at a low heart rate. Of course one may also forget about both the Maff method and speed work and still get to the same place, it just might take a little longer. That's why I emphasize doing what you like over doing what may or may not be theoretically correct, since only by doing what you like are you likely to stick with it, and what's theoretically correct remains controversial and therefore should never take precedence over enjoyment.

 

[DNEchris]

Right, I tend to use an abbreviated notion of it, referring to the 3-4 months of base-building. My bad.

My conjecture is that at least some people may benefit just as much by jumping right into speed work and avoid the 3-4 months of base-building at a low heart rate, once they've achieved a decent level of conditioning.

Why not take advantage of the base building/conditioning period to get technique dialed in as there is much less chance of doing TMTS?

I think the chances of injuring yourself by doing speed work before all the necessary strengthening of the lower legs and feet is well underway is asking for trouble.

I think I'll forever be working on 'easy'!

 

[Bare Lee]

Why not take advantage of the base building/conditioning period to get technique dialed in as there is much less chance of doing TMTS?

I think the chances of injuring yourself by doing speed work before all the necessary strengthening of the lower legs and feet is well underway is asking for trouble.

I think I'll forever be working on 'easy'!

Chris, I did qualify introduction of speed work as something that should only be done "once they've achieved a decent level of conditioning." I didn't specify exactly what that would be, but I would think minimally it would mean one can run 30-40 minutes at 10-11 mm pace (to pull some figures out of a hat). I would never recommend that someone new to running or to barefoot running jump right into speed work. Sorry I didn't make that clearer. I should also clarify that by speed work, all I'm talking about is running paces that are faster than you can sustain on your longest run. So it could mean a tempo run at 60% distance, or could be fast 440 intervals on a track, or even outright sprinting for really advanced runners. I would also not recommend speed work for those who don't like it. I like it once in a while, and so have incorporated it with the off chance that I may also benefit from it. It feels good to change gears and feel somewhat youthful again. I also like 'easy' and agree it too is a long-term project. If I lived near some decent trails I would also do more trail running. I like variety.

 

[BFwillie_g]

 

[DNEchris]

I think this is what migangelo was warning about
It's OK Lee we are both well intentioned (and I can be a little dense)

 

[Bare Lee]

It's OK Lee we are both well intentioned

Right Chris, I know, and I don't mean to keep rehearsing these arguments. I just like to point out that there may be alternative points of view out there, and that if someone new to this thing we call barefoot running is looking for answers, or is having problems, then I feel something of a responsibility to point them out.

 

[ThomDavid]

OK, so if I have the gist of this:

Never discuss religion or politics at Thanksgiving, and never ask the definition of "slow" when in a barefoot running forum.

Hey, I may be a newbie, but I learn.

Now, I have a question about what really constitutes "barefoot"...

 

[DNEchris]

OK, so if I have the gist of this:

Never discuss religion or politics at Thanksgiving, and never ask the definition of "slow" when in a barefoot running forum.

Hey, I may be a newbie, but I learn.

Now, I have a question about what really constitutes "barefoot"...

Eeh! Th'art right wicked thee!

 

[Lomad]

Total n00b. If you REALLY want to stir said pot, don't ask to define 'barefoot;' Ask 'how minimal is minimal enough to still be a barefoot runner?' Then steal Willie's popcorn and eat up with that big ol' spoon you just used to whip up the frenzy.

 

[ThomDavid]

Properly chastised am I. Repairing to corner, to flog myself vigorously with a pair of Vibram Five Fingers, which, I am told by some, is the appropriate and only use for such footwear.

 

[devilnuts]

LOL...that's probably about the only good use for them, Thom. haha. (I'm joking by the way...so everyone put your flamethrowers away. )

 

[jldeleon]

Properly chastised am I. Repairing to corner, to flog myself vigorously with a pair of Vibram Five Fingers, which, I am told by some, is the appropriate and only use for such footwear.

LOLOL!!! Where can I view the video of this???

 

[jldeleon]

I was thinking more like this...

Pandora's Box

 

[jldeleon]

So I don't know if this means anything or not, but, I have ran with Mike more often than not since the beginning of this year and I raced in the Shamrock Run in mid-March of this year and Cinco de Mayo about 7 weeks later, and my pace went from 10:54 to 9:52. I am fairly certain he was in the thick of the MAF thing around then... Mind you, my MAF h.r. is not exactly the same as his, but something had to have made a difference and I wasn't doing any special training. Just running behind him wondering if we could run any slower. Lol.

 

[ThomDavid]

I'll add to the "I don't know if this means anything or not" theme: I decided to give myself another say to heal the blisters before running again, so I hit the stationary bike at the gym. I figured I'd do a MAF workout w warmup, MAF workout, and cool down. Once I got into the MAF portion, I was really careful to keep my HR at my prescribed MAF rate. And when I looked at my revs per minute at that rate, I was between 90 - 92 rpm. Translated into steps, that would be 180 - 184 cadence. I know that biking and bf running aren't exactly equivalent activities, but I thought it kind of significant that I could achieve this rate of leg turnover while still maintaining such a "slow" pace. Makes me even more eager to run tomorrow, to see how/if this translates.

 

[Bare Lee]

I'll add to the "I don't know if this means anything or not" theme: I decided to give myself another say to heal the blisters before running again, so I hit the stationary bike at the gym. I figured I'd do a MAF workout w warmup, MAF workout, and cool down. Once I got into the MAF portion, I was really careful to keep my HR at my prescribed MAF rate. And when I looked at my revs per minute at that rate, I was between 90 - 92 rpm. Translated into steps, that would be 180 - 184 cadence. I know that biking and bf running aren't exactly equivalent activities, but I thought it kind of significant that I could achieve this rate of leg turnover while still maintaining such a "slow" pace. Makes me even more eager to run tomorrow, to see how/if this translates.

Oh my, we've lost you to the number-crunching rulesers! You are now an official member of the cult of barefoot running. Before you know it you'll be doing 100-ups, perfecting your nose- to mouth-breathing ratio, and performing shibbolethic semantic somersaults (lengthening instead of stretching, lifting your foot instead of pushing off, plantar development instead of calluses, etc.). One last bit to get you to reconsider:
http://www.scienceofrunning.com/2009/05/sprint-training-for-distance-runners.html

 

[barefootandagile]

Thom,

Don't forget to get you a pair of these: http://m.beltoutlet.com/men-footwear-nufoot-mens-striped-slippers.html

 

[Bare Lee]

Thom,

Don't forget to get you a pair of these: http://m.beltoutlet.com/men-footwear-nufoot-mens-striped-slippers.html

Hey B&A, have you tried these? My dad insists on walking around the house with socks on, and sometimes falls when he slips on the wood floors. I got him some socks with rubberized sole patterns, but the Nufoots look intriguing.

 

[barefootandagile]

Lee,

Wearing them out and about this morning

 

[BFwillie_g]

Never discuss religion or politics at Thanksgiving, and never ask the definition of "slow" when in a barefoot running forum.

no, don't think like that at all, dude! Ask anything and everything ... and keep learning and having fun ... it's just that sometimes threads start going around in circles and ppl start repeating and explaining and re-explaining themsleves. Which is also fine and dandy, but opens the partakers to a little ribbing, that's all

It's all good