Strength Training for 1-Rep Maxes: Weekly Workout Logs

Discussion in 'Training Information/Training Regimens' started by Bare Lee, Aug 12, 2014.

  1. Abide Barefooters
    1. Arizona -...

    Member Since:
    May 13, 2010
    Message Count:
    2,355
    Yeah that has been true for me too. I think its probably better to error on the lighter side rather than the heavy side of things. It will also keep the progression going a little longer. Today for example when I did my bench drop sets I went down from 120kgs to 90 kgs which is 75% and I could barely get 3 x 3. It was a close grip but I don't think it should have dropped that much? I'm thinking of going down to 70% next week.

    Yeah just keep tinkering with it, I do think 5lb increases on the drop sets is the best idea though. However the most important lift should be the max effort ones so I wouldn't drop a rep of those to get the full set of 5s in, those are just icing. And down the road there may also be some merit in doing something similar to the 5/3/1 program if you really want to practice the higher rep schemes with heavier loads.

    Interval training is so much better when you have a group to run with and keep you motivated.
  2. Bare Lee Chapter Presidents
    1. Minnesota

    Member Since:
    Jul 25, 2011
    Message Count:
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    Yeah, I dunno, sometimes I think the triples give me the most benefit, after getting primed by the singles. But definitely, the quintuples are icing, more of a bar speed or dynamic benefit than strength benefit, and if they feel light, I can always add a rep or two. The most important thing is push up close to max effort on the singles and triples.

    I'm surprised you have such a big percentage difference between your single and triple though. The ExRx and Bodybuilding calculators put triples at around 90%, and quintuples at around 85% (http://exrx.net/Calculators/OneRepMax.html, http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/other7.htm). But it seems like different lifts can feel pretty different at 90%, with maybe squats having the biggest difference between a single and a triple, for me at least. Maybe CG Bench Press are like that too? What's the percentage drop from your normal Bench Press 1Rm to 3RM?

    I may have to try the 5/3/1 or some other set/rep scheme at some point, now that I'm warming up to the idea of adopting a more disciplined approach. Or go back to the pure "autoregulation" approach! I was a bit skeptical at first about following a set routine with little leeway for variation depending on energy and motivation levels, but I do like how it frees me up to just do it and be done with it. It feels a little more like a chore that has to be done, but I appreciate the fact that my mind is free to wander while I'm performing the chore. And after I get through the triples, there's definitely a sense of relief, like OK, just the 5s to do now, I can relax a bit. Whereas before, I didn't need much mental focus between sets at all. I just stopped a set when I felt like, dropped weight when I felt like, and moved on to another lift when I felt like it.

    Thanks for the confirmation on the 5-pound increase, more and more, I'm thinking it's the way to go. Plus I'm tired of everything ending in five. It would be nice to see some zeros at the end of my weight increments.

    Thinking about doing more squats today . . . maybe six singles starting at 265 and coming down in 10-pound increments.

    ________________________

  3. Bare Lee Chapter Presidents
    1. Minnesota

    Member Since:
    Jul 25, 2011
    Message Count:
    4,841
    Week 3

    SUNDAY
    AM
    3.5 mi. Marshall-Franklin Mississippi bridge circuit.

    Very humid, but this is a great distance for me. I can push the pace just slightly the whole way. Not a true tempo run, but maybe it could develop into one fairly soon, by mid fall?

    MONDAY
    AM
    One-mile run-commute
    PM
    One-mile walk-commute with 60-lb weighted vest. Felt it in the upper corner of my back mostly. Got my heart rate up. Made a spectacle of myself, a bit more than usual. Half of the route is along a busy thoroughfare. So commuters and fair-goers got to see a barefoot middle-aged guy with what might look like a bullet-proof vest, or maybe a suicide-bomb, marching towards the State Fair.

    Then ST. I didn't have time for my full workout, having been distracted by my wife, who was just getting ready to go to work, so I decided to just do a heavy deadlift workout and save the rows and pullups for Tuesday.

    I warmed up quickly again--1x1x135, 1x2x225, 1x1x315. Everything felt good and automatic. Then, since I was just doing deadlifts and had 5-10 minutes more to do them than I normally would have during a full workout, I decided to take another stab at 365. Just had to get that out of the way, even though I knew it would serve no real purpose.

    On my first attempt, I felt it going up, but a little doubt lingered in my mind about whether I really could do it, and whether I was putting myself at risk, so I dropped it back down after 5-6 inches. I knew I had it though, so I switched from the mellow, bubbling Afro pop station I had on Pandora and put on the Green Day Pandora station again, and once again, a song by the Offspring came on while attempting a DL PR. Just the right amount of whitey aggressive energy.

    The second attempt went up, but towards the end my back rounded a bit, so it was a technical fail. I'd say I'm at least a month away from being able to do the thing properly. Definitely overreached, but it was good to see the six 45s and two 25s all lined up on the bar go up. I guess the number 365 also has seasonal significance.

    Then, as I got ready to do my normal singles, I looked at my charts on the garage door but found myself looking at the squat rep-counts, which say 245, instead of the deadlift chart, which has 335 as the single. So I took off the two 25s, ignored the '2' of the 245 and loaded two 10s and two 5s to bring it up to 345. Then, thinking it might be a good idea to add five pounds to last week's singles, I loaded the two new 2.5-lb plates I bought over the weekend, to bring the whole thing up to 250.

    Jesus, that didn't feel right, it was as hard as 365! So I thought maybe the weighted-vest walk had tired me out more than I thought, and took off all the small plates, leaving just the six 45-pound plates on, bringing it down to 315. Ah, that felt better. After another single, I realized I had been looking at the wrong paper taped on the garage door, and saw that the DL single was supposed to be 335, not 345. Since I still had plenty of time to get through the deadlift portion of the workout, I figured it was worth a second try, and so added the two 10s back on. It was challenging, but solid, although I didn't feel like I could do any more. Still, 335 felt like it would've been a pretty good single for three sets if I hadn't already done 365, 350, and 315 twice.

    I came back down to 315, did another single and then started in on the triples. Like the programmed 335 for singles, the programmed 295 weight for the three sets of triples was also pretty much spot on. Challenging, but doable.

    When I looked at my quintuples, I noticed on the chart that they were fifty pounds lighter than the triples instead of forty, which had been the 1/3/5 increment I had intended to do for the deads. So I added thirty pounds to the four 45s and brought it up to 255. Last week I must have done the quintuples at 245, as written on the log. Anyway, 255 felt just right for the two five-rep sets. In fact, probably could've been heavier, as it was my grip on the fourth and fifth rep that gave out more than my back. So I adopted more of a hanging, looser finger grip. After I did two sets, I decided to blast one more, but by then my palms were trashed by the knurling, so I put on my bike gloves and got in four more reps. Just didn't have the last rep in me. I was spent.

    The somewhat messy workout's total sets/reps went like this
    warm-up
    1x1x135, 1x2x225, 1x1x315.
    work sets
    1x1x365(166kg), 1x1x350(159kg), 2x1x315(143kg), 1x1x335(152kg), 1x1x315(143kg), 3x3x295(134kg), 2x5x255(116kg), 1x4x255

    In sum, I spent three extra sets on singles and one extra set on quintuples.

    One thing I tried that was new was a slightly narrower grip and stance. I moved everything inwards 2 inches. Now my thumbs are just at the edge of the knurling section, before the smooth part on either side of the short knurling section right in the middle. My feet are just inside that, less than shoulder-width I think. This seems better for my knees, and there was less tendency for them to want to cave inwards.

    In general, I gotta have more faith in my 1/3/5 rep scheme, and stick to the script. I just need to do it for a few more weeks, get a good feel for how it progresses, and then, and only then, think about adding five pounds. The 40-pound increments between the different rep-counts feels pretty accurate, so I think when I do add weight, I'll try adding it across the board. 3x1x335/3x3x295/2x5x255 --> 3x1x340/3x3x300/2x5x260

    I'm also thinking of maybe adopting a two-week cycle. I re-read some Rippetoe yesterday, while searching for more info on proper chinup technique, and his rant reinforced the importance of just doing the big, basic lifts (http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/most_recent/rippetoe_throws_down). After yesterday's workout, my whole back was doing a number on me. Not painful, or sore, or stiff, but just shouting out for a really good massage, all through the evening. I even called my 6'5" nephew to come pound me, but I had forgotten he had already gone off to college.

    This morning my back is still really feeling it, almost like I can feel it growing. Probably over-trained, but the experience has reinforced the value of the big lifts--deadlifts and squats. I think every workout should have at least one of those, so that means either squatting twice a week and deadlifting once, or going on a two-week rotation:

    Week 1
    Deadlift
    Squat
    Deadlift

    Week 2
    Squat
    Deadlift
    Squat

    I've never done more than a one-week cycle but I guess this could work. Last Friday while doing my rows and OH press, the workout did feel like it was missing something without either a squat or a deadlift. Seems like every workout should start with one of those two lifts, cuz they really work the whole body and do a good job priming the upper body for the more specific pulls and presses.

    So maybe I'll try something like this:

    Week 1
    Deadlift 3x1/3x3/2x5, DB Rows 3x3/3x5, Cable Rows 3x5, OH Press 3x3/3x5
    Squat 3x1/3x3/2x5, Bench Press 3x1/3x3/2x5, Pull-ups/Pull-downs 3x5
    Deadlift 3x1/3x3/2x5, 90-Row 3x5, 120-Row 3x3, OH Press 3x3/3x5

    Week 2
    Squat 3x1/3x3/2x5, Bench Press 3x1/3x3/2x5, Dips 3x5, Pullover 3x5
    Deadlift 3x1/3x3/2x5, DB Rows 3x3/3x5, Cable Rows 3x5, OH Press 3x3/3x5
    Squat 3x1/3x3/2x5, Bench Press 3x1/3x3/2x5, Pull-ups/Pull-downs 3x5

    Or even more simplified:
    Week 1
    Deadlift 3x1/3x3/2x5, DB Rows 3x3/3x5, Cable Rows 3x5, OH Press 3x3/3x5
    Squat 3x1/3x3/2x5, Bench Press 3x1/3x3/2x5, Pull-ups/Pull-downs 3x5
    Deadlift 3x1/3x3/2x5, 90-Row 3x5, 120-Row 3x3, OH Press 3x3/3x5

    Week 2
    Squat 3x1/3x3/2x5, Bench Press 3x1/3x3/2x5, Pull-ups/Pull-downs 3x5
    Deadlift 3x1/3x3/2x5, DB Rows 3x3/3x5, Cable Rows 3x5, OH Press 3x3/3x5
    Squat 3x1/3x3/2x5, Bench Press 3x1/3x3/2x5, Pull-ups/Pull-downs 3x5

    More schematically, that's simply alternating

    Deadlift, Rows, OH Press
    with
    Squat, Bench Press, Pull-ups/Pull-downs

    with maybe 1-2 assistance exercises thrown in.

    Deadlift, Rows, OH Press (Russian Twist, Lawnmower Row)
    Squat, Bench Press, Pull-ups/Pull-downs (Dips, Pullovers)

    If I can maintain good rep-count discipline and get through each exercises efficiently, should be possible. I think I'll cut out the singles for everything but the big three lifts, and maybe reduce the singles sets from three to two, so that will reduce sets somewhat, and give me a total rep count of 21. Sets determine the length of the workout, reps seem to determine fatigue, weight or intensity determines energy expenditure. If a workout is planned correctly, it seems to me, all three should coincide, so that all the sets have been completed about the time the energy/motivation runs out and you're starting to feel fatigued.

    Weigh in: 250lbs this morning!

    TUESDAY
    Well, we've decided on a sort of spur-of-the-moment trip up to the North Shore of Lake Superior Thursday thru Sunday, my younger brother and the kids, so I thought it best to get in more st, since it will probably be possible to get in some running while we're up there, early morning while everyone else sleeps.

    Started late so I decided to just focus on the bench press to start with, and put off the squats until my lower body had had more time to recover from Monday's deadlifts.

    I warmed up quickly again, got up to 185, and then took off the two 25s and replaced them with two 45s and my new 2.5-pound plates. But 230 felt pretty easy. I thought about adding another five, but added ten instead, bringing it up to 240. I haven't done that sort of weight since the end of my time in Chicago, about 11 years ago now.

    240 was challenging, but doable, so I'd put my true 1RM at about 245-250. Amazing. I haven't been pushing the bench press at all for the last several months, but it's been improving on its own! Further proof that you gotta do all the basic lifts heavy. As my squat and deadlift have improved, so has my bench, apparently. I'm beginning to see that my past limitations, where I always seemed to plateau around 225, 245 tops, were due to the fact that the bench press was the only lift I did seriously, always pyramiding down from technical failure with spotters. It wasn't supported by strength from other lifts.

    Intrigued, I decided to do drop-sets in five-pound increments, with short rests in between. The workout went like this:

    1x1x240, 1x1x235, 1x1x230, 1x1x225, 1x2x220, 1x3x215, 1x3x210, 2x5x195.

    This seems to indicate that my initial estimates for the 1/3/5 rep scheme was about ten pounds off at all rep counts. Instead of 3x1x225, 3x3x205, 2x5x185, it should be 3x1x235, 3x3x215, 2x5x195. Maybe I could even push the three singles up to 240, we'll see.

    So all-of-a-sudden, 275 doesn't seem unrealistic. If I continue to get stronger in the deadlift and squat, I expect my bench will continue to improve too.

    So the idea of just keeping things basic for as long as I'm improving has been reinforced. I really should just alternate

    Deadlift, Rows, OH Press (assist: Russian Twist, Lawnmower Row)

    with

    Squat, Bench Press, Pull-downs (assist: Dips, Pullovers)

    and keep doing everything heavy, 22 reps or so for the bottom and middle exercises, 15-18 for the top and the assistance exercises. If I can do these efficiently, then I should be able to get through them in about 40-45 minutes, and then still have 15-20 minutes leftover for the plyo/mobility/stabilizer/bag work.

    WEDNESDAY
    Wanted to get in one more workout before the trip up north on Thursday. Started with squats, and once again laid a turd. I was supposed to do singles at 245, but instead, after warming up to 225, I put two 10-pound plates on either side, bringing the weight up to 265, just ten pounds below my 1RM. I guess I was thinking twenty pounds past the big 45s, but put twenty on both sides instead of total. After two months I'm still getting confused by the Olympic plates. Shows you how much I like my workouts to be mindless. Even with a simple rep scheme, I'm screwing up.

    Anyway, I failed the first squat. I thought to myself that maybe it felt so heavy because I hadn't spent enough time on the warm-up sets. I managed to get through the next two singles though, and then, while taking off the plates and reloading for my triples, I realized I had been doing the singles twenty pounds too heavy. Oh well. I only managed two reps on my last triple set, and then missed the last rep of my quintuples:

    1x1x265, 1x1x265, 1x1x265, 2x3x215, 1x2x215, 1x5x185, 1x4x185

    It was a lack of will though, not physical or technical failure. Nonetheless, I'm thinking if I had done the singles at the proper weight, then my 3x1x245/3x3x215/2x5x185 increments would've been just about right, physically and mentally.

    Then I moved onto the OH press. For my triples, I did a little push-press, but I managed strict form for the quintuples:

    3x3x215, 2x5x205

    Wondering if I shouldn't go back to doing the OH Press seated, in order to enforce strict form for all the rep-count increments. In any case, for the time-being, I've decided to do away with the singles for the OH Press, since I can't manage to do those with good form.

    That's it until next week. I got in the deadlifts, squats, and both presses this week, so I should be in good stead when I try to hit the new two-week cycle starting next Monday. Overall, I'm really enjoying the simplicity of this new workout scheme. Just need another week or two to get it more automatic and efficient.

    I'll try to get in one or two runs while on our trip.

    THURSDAY
    A few miles walking barefoot around Gooseberry Falls and Split Rock Lighthouse on Lake Superior.

    SATURDAY
    Three miles of gravel on the road at our property on Deer Lake.

    ________________________

  4. Abide Barefooters
    1. Arizona -...

    Member Since:
    May 13, 2010
    Message Count:
    2,355
    Week 3
    Monday 8/26/14
    Goblet Squats --1 x 14 x 32kgs
    Deadlift ----------EMOM x 10 x 150Kgs
    Press ------------- 2 x 72.5kgs - 3 x 3 x 60kgs
    Neutral Pull Up -3 x 6
    Farmers -------- 80m x 95 kgs
    A few hill sprints in the evening.
    DL's were very peppy, press was ok struggled a bit on the 2nd rep

    Tuesday 8/27/14
    Swings ------------1 x 20 x 32kgs
    Inc Press --------- 1 x 90kgs - 1 x 6 x 70kgs
    P-row ----------- -3 x 5 x 80kgs
    Ab roll outs -----2 x 10
    AM commute - 37:40
    PM commute -
    I decided to drop heavy squats for now and just work some 20 rep sets of Goblets then move to 20 reps of 135 for a while. I figure working on the DL is more important right now. I still can't manage 20 reps in a row with the KB.

    This is my last lifting workout for the week, heading down to crew a friend for UTMB. Hopefully I'll haves some time for biking and hiking while I am waiting around.
  5. Bare Lee Chapter Presidents
    1. Minnesota

    Member Since:
    Jul 25, 2011
    Message Count:
    4,841
    I dunno, I've been noticing some carryover or transference between the squat and deadlift. Seem to be mutually reinforcing.

    Anyway, have fun this weekend. I'll be checking back in on Sunday or Monday. This afternoon I'll try to get in some squats, rows, and presses while I'm getting ready for our trip. In the meantime, I've banged out what a two-week schedule might look like. I'll try to begin implementing it next week.

    ST.3  2-Week--14.08.27.jpg

    I got the descending sets penciled in for the third and fourth workout.

    The pulldown numbers are just approximations. I may also try doing some negative/eccentric lowerings and/or assisted chinups on the chinup bar after the pulldowns, but no real need to log that sort of thing, and it would mess with the symmetry of the chart.

    On the box jumps, the rep counts mean height, so five jumps at 1 is 14", five at 3 is 19", and jumps at 5 are 24".

    ________________________

  6. Bare Lee Chapter Presidents
    1. Minnesota

    Member Since:
    Jul 25, 2011
    Message Count:
    4,841
    Week 4

    MONDAY

    AM: 2 miles run-commute.

    I'm thinking of trying the daily 5K again this week, every morning, starting tomorrow. Tired of having the afternoon runs get interrupted, and I kinda get the sense that aerobic activity should be daily, while anaerobic is best done every other.

    Noon: Deadlift: 3x3x295(134), 2x5x255(116)

    My toddling son was hanging out while I got in a quick workout before heading out on a picnic. So I skipped the DL singles and Rows and OH Press.

    TUESDAY

    PM: 3.5 miles, Marshall-Franklin Bridge circuit.

    Didn't get a chance to implement my early morning 5K routine, as I slept in until 7am and then took my daughter to her first day of 2nd grade, together with my wife and son. It's freaky when the kids start to get to the age when you began to remember things pretty clearly. Having kids is like reliving one's childhood. Anyway, so I ran in the afternoon. Sped up a little for the last mile.

    WEDNESDAY

    AM: 3.1 mi/5K

    My left MCL is sore for some reason, so I walked the whole distance. Took a lot of time, but I had to initiate the first-thing-in-the-morning routine one way or the other. It was nice to reaquaint myself with this route at 3am and no-one around, just bug noises and the occasional rabbit. I love the tranquility of early morning runs/walks.

    PM: Bench Press: 1x1x225(102), 1x1x245(111), 1x1x255(116), 1x2x225(102), 1x1x225(102), 1x3x205(93), 1x5x185(84)

    I warmed up to 225 and then decided to go for 245, up five pounds from last week's 240. 245 felt pretty solid, so I slapped on ten more pounds. I probably should've just added five. 255 felt heavy, but doable, but when I got the bar down on my chest, all my energy seemed to leave me. So I put it on my safety carriage bolts, took off some plates and got it back up on the j-clips. Did two sets at 225, a double and a single, and then a set of triples at 205 and one set of 5s at 185, but I felt weak the rest of the workout after the failed 255.

    Anyway, I think my new single is going to be 245 instead of 235, and then 215 and 195 for the triples and quintuples, respectively. As we've discussed, there's more of a drop off between singles and triples than between triples and quintuples, so instead of spacing the rep counts evenly at 20 pounds' difference, I'll try a 30/20-lbs difference. I may try the same thing with the squats and deadlifts too, making the difference for squats 40/30 instead of 30/30, and 50/40 for deadlifts instead of 40/40, basically bumping up the singles by 10 pounds for all the big lifts.

    I'm still impressed with how I've been able to jump up 20 pounds on the bench press purely through developing stronger DLs, Squats, and Rows over the last few months. I feel confident I'll be able to bench 275 at some point next year. On the other hand, it kinda sucks that once again my squat is only marginally better than my bench, given that the squat utilizes much bigger muscles. Still gunning for a 365-pound squat eventually.

    I only had 20 minutes, and with my sore MCL, I decided to forgo the squats. I also skipped the pulldowns.

    Left shoulder felt great after resting it for a week.

    THURSDAY

    AM: MCL feels a lot better, but I decided not to run or walk on it, so that it'll be fresh for this afternoon's squats, which I missed on Wednesday.

    PM: Blew off the ST. Decided to rest the MCL one more day.

    FRIDAY

    AM: MCL feels a lot better, and it's probably OK now to have at least gone on a 5K walk, but I drove instead. I really want it to be fresh enough for squats this afternoon, so that I can at least get in all the main lifts once this week.

    The week of initiating the daily 5k and two-week st cycle has failed miserably. I'll try to get both up and running again next week.

    PM:
    Squats: 1x3x185(84), 2x3x215(98), 2x5x185(84).
    OH Press: 2x3x115(52), 2x5x105(47.6), 1x5x95(43)
    P-Row: 3x5x135(61)

    I avoided my squat singles, but my left MCL tolerated the triples and 5s pretty well, so maybe I should've done them. It is nice though, how much faster things go without them.

    The OH Press felt solid, with little or no pushing, but I'm wondering if it wouldn't be better to go back to seated presses, to completely isolate the targeted muscles.

    I went light on the P-Rows, because I've sorta been using this week of short workouts to test which exercises irritate my left shoulder, and I didn't want to confound possible effects from the presses with those from rows. I just wanted to prime my back a little for next weeks' (hopefully) full workouts. After the time off during my trip up north last weekend, my shoulder feels really good, so I'm going to try to pay extra attention to which exercises, reps, or weights seem to irritate it. It's been great this week being pretty much pain-free. This morning (Saturday) I'm noticing a little something there, which may indicate it's the rows, since I felt a little strain on my last set yesterday.

    With my left MCL tolerating squats well, I guess I have to conclude that it was the running on Tuesday that made it sore. This is very odd, as there was no acute pain during the running, and I had been running reasonably well the last month or so.

    ________________________

  7. Abide Barefooters
    1. Arizona -...

    Member Since:
    May 13, 2010
    Message Count:
    2,355
    Week 4
    Tuesday 9/2/14
    Goblet Squats --1 x 10 x 32kgs
    Deadlift ----------EMOM x 10 x 150Kgs
    Press ------------- 1 x 3 x 72.5kgs & 1 x 3 x 60kgs
    Neutral Pull Up -2 x 6
    Farmers -------- 80m x 95 kgs
    AM bike commute - 34:56
    Lunch Yoga 20min
    PM bike commute - 34:44

    Getting back at it after a nice long weekend off from lifting. Got in some great runs and bike trips. I'm gonna jump to 75kgs next week in the press and up to 155kgs for the DL. Farmers at 95kgs was tough on the grip. Being at the race was quite motivating. I might start to get a little more serious about my running and sign up for a couple ultras?

    Wednesday 9/3/14
    Easy 5k run in the AM

    Thursday 9/4/14
    2k warmup run
    Goblet Squats --3 x 8 x 32kgs
    Swings --------- 1 x 20 x 32Kgs
    Inc Press -------- 3 x 3 x 80kgs
    KB Rows --------- 5/7/5 x 32kgs
    Suitcase ---------- 80m x 32kgs per arm
    AM bike commute - 37:13
    Lunch Yoga 20min
    PM bike commute - 33:12

    The inside of my right knee felt irritated from doing squats today so I scratched the 20 rep attempt. I am kind of frustrated with the squats right now, hopefully they don't influence the TBDL tomorrow or Saturday when I do them. Maybe just doing a real slow linear progression of 3 x 5 from 60kgs and going up 2.5kgs per week is the way to go right now? Not really sure. Anyways I signed up for a trail duathlon on the 14th kind of excited to try out a new type of race for me.
    Friday 9/5/14
    TBDL ------------- 3 x 3 x 115Kgs
    SLDL ------------- 3 x 5 x 95Kgs
    Bench ------------ 3 x 1 x 110 kgs & 4/5/4 x 80kgs
    N Pull ups ------- 3 x 6
    Ab rollout-------- 1 x 10

    Rough workout today was hoping to get in a bike ride but I was feeling pretty worn out all morning so I skipped it. Planning on taking a day off tomorrow.

    Sunday 9/7/2014
    1 hour easy run & 1 hour hard MTB
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  8. Abide Barefooters
    1. Arizona -...

    Member Since:
    May 13, 2010
    Message Count:
    2,355
    Yeah? Are they going to be easy 5k's?
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  9. Bare Lee Chapter Presidents
    1. Minnesota

    Member Since:
    Jul 25, 2011
    Message Count:
    4,841
    If I follow through, they would be easy to start with, maybe even walking sometimes while I built up my tolerances again for daily running, then I'll try alternating easy runs with tempo/hills/fartleks, or something like that, and hopefully still get in a longer run on Saturday or Sunday. I think it's best to set my standards low to begin with, in order to give the morning 5Ks a decent chance of working. If they don't I can go back to the everyotherday 10K routine, which works reasonably well too. One way or the other, I need to try running first thing in the morning again. The first half-mile or mile is kind of a hard sell, but after than it tends to be OK.

    If I can implement the two-week cycle for ST, I'm also thinking about eliminating the singles for the big lifts two out of the three times I do them, and just do triples and quintuples. Doing three sets of singles adds up to 10 minutes to the workout, so might be best just to do two heavy days and four normal workouts in a two week span. We'll see. Yesterday I just did deadlift triples and quintuples because I was pressed for time and distracted by my son, and I liked how quickly they went.

    I'm also going to stop worrying about fueling before or after the ST. I would really like to start dropping some dead weight. I think I got too caught up in all the fitness bs, but I'm pretty sure I'll be fine just eating three meals a day.

    How are the EMOM deadlifts working out by the way? Would you use this protocol for other lifts?

    ________________________

  10. Abide Barefooters
    1. Arizona -...

    Member Since:
    May 13, 2010
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    Yeah I noticed that too when I focus too much on the singles it takes a lot more time. I was thinking about tomorrow doing something like this to be a little more efficient.

    Incline press 1-3 sets x 1 rep x 100kgs if I hit 3 sets I will do 1 x 5 x 80kgs of back off sets, if I hit 2 max reps then 2 x 5 etc....

    Another idea is super setting the back off sets. I would superset the Incline presses 3 x 5 x 80kgs with one armed rows 3 x 5 each arm or possibly even pull ups.

    Yeah just getting my body geared up for a run in the morning is tough. I think it might be best to just get up get dressed down a cup of coffee and go. Then stay reasonably close to home for a mile in case nature calls. Once I get a sweat going everything is usually fine though.

    Since I am planning longer runs in the future I might focus on two types of runs a week, hill repeats (up and down) and a long easy run on the weekend. 2 runs a week suplemented with biking hopefully will be enough aerobically. I really am trying to figure out how to run without feeling so beat down, and I think limiting it to twice a week may help. Biking has much less impact but still has the cardiovascular benefits of running and I figure I can do some higher heart rate speed training on the bike if I feel like a little more speed work, or just keep them easy recovery rides if I feel worn out.

    Shoot I was thinking this too, I'm gonna shoot for losing 20lbs over the next 6-12 months. That would get me close to 180. I really don't want to reverse my strength gains so I am going to be careful with this. Maybe just really focus on eating whole foods for a while, and no added sugar. But keep the quantities up. Protein shakes too.

    I really like the EMOM deadlifts. Mainly because its focused and quick but still provides a great stimulus. I am doing 10 reps at about 90% of my 1RM which is pretty intense. I never really feel sore after it either, the main thing I notice is a big appetite later in the day.

    I would actually try the EMOM scheme for most of the lifts. I am doing the max rep right now just to get a good feeling for it. But in the future I might do something like a EMOM lift each workout. If you do it with the upper body stuff I might consider doing 2 or 3 reps vs. 1 with the deadlift. The original concept was more EMOM for 20 minutes but I think sticking to 10 minutes and if you want more density increasing the rep count may be a better way to go. Usually my best lift is the 8th or 9th rep after that it seems to get significantly harder so the fatigue level seems perfect at 10 reps.
  11. Bare Lee Chapter Presidents
    1. Minnesota

    Member Since:
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    Those are interesting ideas.

    The first is sort of autoregulation within a scheme. It's a real trick to find the proper logic and yet have some built-in flexibility. That's what I've been searching for these last six months or so of constant scheming and revision. Yesterday it was easy for me to drop the singles when pressed for time, and yet still get in a structured workout. I like your idea of using performance in a set to adjust the remaining sets. If you can pin that down, you'll be golden.

    For the second, I've also been thinking supersetting my second and third lifts might work. That would be Rows and OH Presses for the first workout, and Bench and Pulldowns for the second. The equipment would mesh I think, with minimal messing around in between sets. So each workout starts with either deadlifts or squats, and then supersets an upperbody pull with a push. Hmnn, I likes it, might have to give it a try.

    The trick, as you say, is to find that Goldilocks principle of pushing oneself enough to progress, but not so much that you feel beat up afterwards. I think my simplified scheme, focusing just on the main six lifts for the most part, will require doing them a little less intensely, since I'll be doing them 50% more frequently.

    I'd be hesitant about doing away with singles altogether however, because I'm skeptical that a set of 3RM or 5RM really equals a set of 1RM, pace all the rep calculators. I think it's important to get in a training 1RM (90-95% of a true 1RM) at least once every two or three weeks. What I might do is reduce the singles from three to one or two: 2x1/3x3/2x5. Still, it's nice not to have the mental burden of doing singles every workout. I oftentimes find singles more mentally challenging than physically challenging, especially for squats.

    Ha, I'm lucky; nature calls within a few minutes of waking up, so I'm always in good shape when I step outside. This morning felt good, despite sleeping one or two hours less than I wanted to. The trick will be to establish the routine well enough this fall in order to weather the winter, when I'll be running at the coldest time of day.

    Yah, biking and rowing are good alternatives to running for the aerobic benefits. I do think running is essential though, in order to stress the bones and ligaments sufficiently. With all your cycling, two times a week running might be enough. My ideal would be to alternate 5ks with 10ks during the week and then something like a half-marathon on the weekend, but I don't know if my body would be able to take it. Anyway, first things first, and right now I'm just seeing if I can manage a 5k distance everyday. I may also try to get in more cycling, picking up the kids by bike instead of car, but it does add about 30 minutes to the pick-up.

    Good luck. 180 would be way too ambitious for me. How tall are you? You can deadlift and bench 30-40 pounds more than me, so if you can still do that or more 20 pounds lighter, I'll be impressed.

    I'm anxious to find out what my (relatively) lean bodyweight is going to be at my current strength levels. I know I've added muscle mass, but how much? Difficult to be sure with the flab. I got down to 210 almost two years ago, and felt I could've lost another 10, so perhaps 220 is a good short-term goal. In the past, I've just relied on exercise. I hate dieting. Hopefully more consistent running and cutting back a little on the meals will do the trick.

    Yah, I was thinking the same thing. For me, singles of any sort only work with the big lifts--squat, bench, deadlift. Everything else feels best in the 3-5 rep range. EMOM is an interesting addition to the rep scheme repertoire. I'll have to give it a try sometime. With this new idea of doing the three big lifts three times over a two-week cycle --

    DL-Row-Press / Squat-Bench-Pulldown / DL-Row-Press
    Squat-Bench-Pulldown / DL-Row-Press / Squat-Bench-Pulldown,

    -- I could easily incorporate three different rep schemes, doing each one once for each big lift, for example
    my current 3x1/3x3/2x5 scheme,
    then
    a EMOM scheme,
    and finally,
    a descending drop-set scheme.

    For the deadlift, that would look something like:
    1/3/5 = 3x1x335/3x3x295/2x5x255
    then EMOM = 10x1x315
    and descending = 1x1x355/1x1x345/1x1x335/1x1x325/1x1x315/1x2x305/1x3x295/1x5x285

    Or, alternatively, do two medium workouts, then two heavy ones, and then two lighter ones to complete the two-week cycle. Once again, using deadlifts:
    Medium
    3x3x295/2x5x255
    Heavy
    3x1x335/3x3x295/2x5x255
    Light
    3x3x285/2x8x225

    Funny how reducing the workouts to just two, with three main lifts per workout, actually opens up the possibilities for other parameters.

    Sh!t, my left MCL is kind of sore. Hopefully stretching and massaging throughout the day with put me in good stead for this afternoon's squats, otherwise I may have to skip them. With an abbreviated workout on Monday due to Labor Day, and now a sore MCL, the new two-week routine is getting off to a rough start.

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  12. Abide Barefooters
    1. Arizona -...

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    That is kind of what I was thinking too, its not enough stress for adaptation to be on my feet for an extended period. Eventually what I would like to build up to is to run to work once a week which is about an 18k run during the week and then do a long 4 hour run on the weekend and incorporate the hill training then. If my times are slow but I don't feel like an 80 year old when I get out of bed it might be worth it.


    I'm 5'9" but I tend to run on the heavy side for my height. I have not been below 185 in 20 years so It will be completely new territory. Unfortunately for me its really a combination of excercise and diet. I can be mostly flexible with the diet but I suspect once I get to 185 it will take a lot more resolve. Taking a protein shake in the morning when I wake up and before lunch has cut down my cravings for snacking.


    I like that idea with the weekly variation. You could see how the lifts went the week before and then really work a weight with the EMOM the following week.
  13. Bare Lee Chapter Presidents
    1. Minnesota

    Member Since:
    Jul 25, 2011
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    Give yourself a few months at adapt. I noticed last fall when I began to run weekly half-marathonish distances that my recovery time went from 2-3 days to less than 24 hours over a two or three month period. Still, I'm not going to do any running in a fatigued state for a while. I just don't like it. I'll mostly be working on pace in the 5-10k range for the next several months at least, although I would like to build back up to about 9-10 miles for my weekend long run.

    Funny, after talking about cutting out the extra meal for lifting, I felt weak on my bench presses yesterday after working up to my single. The energy reserves weren't there. So nix that idea. Will have to rely on running. I'm definitely going to have my protein/yoghurt shake this aft before doing my squats.

    But yeah, snacking is a big no-no. I think it's important to feel a little hungry for an hour or two between meals, that's when you burn the fat. At 5'9" you're even stronger than I thought. If your lean BW is 180, then you're already at or close to advanced level in the presses, according to ExRx's strength standards.

    Yah, like you, I'll probably start with the deadlifts. They seem the most amenable to a EMOM protocol.

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  14. Abide Barefooters
    1. Arizona -...

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    Well as for taking it slow I just realized I signed up for a 60k in a month as I read the date wrong and thought it was 2 and a half months away. Like I said though its going to be a slow slow run. Hopefully I can get a few weeks worth of somewhat decent runs complete? I figure I will start at 4am on the weekend and get done as early as possible.

    So possibly two runs a week evetually building up to 50k a week kilometerage, and 150k on the bike and 3 lifting days.

    I don't know sounds like a lot.
  15. Bare Lee Chapter Presidents
    1. Minnesota

    Member Since:
    Jul 25, 2011
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    Sounds nuts considering you haven't been running much lately, but from what I remember, you're one of those people who can casually sign up for ultras with little or no training. Good Luck! It'll be fun following your training . . . and hopefully you'll let up a little on the lifting and give me a chance to catch up a bit.

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  16. Bare Lee Chapter Presidents
    1. Minnesota

    Member Since:
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    I think with squats, slow is always good. I'm viewing them as a long-term project, and may reduce the singles from time to time, and do more 3s and 5s. It's going to take my knees some time to adapt, but also, they're the most technical of the non-Olympic lifts, so it's going to take me time to get really consistent form. I might also spend a little more time on warm-up than I have been.

    But I have come to the conclusion that deep back squats are essential. You're still doing the goblets, right?

    The inside of my left knee, what I've guessed is the MCL, is what I'm feeling now, but no real cause, although it first flared up while running two years ago, as you may recall. I tried doing some static squats yesterday and today, and it seems to help, so I'm wondering if it's tight muscles in the lower or upper leg, and not the ligament per se?

    Are you doing that 'push out' with the heels/foot cue? I've found that really helps with both the squats and the deadlifts.

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  17. Abide Barefooters
    1. Arizona -...

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    Yeah I do that cue all the time. Sometimes I will just sit with the weight in the hole and do a couple of pause squats and really drive my knees out.

    Usually once I feel tweaks in my knee I will really get after massaging my quads and it seems to relieve the tension I feel on the knee. Try taking a rolling pin or the stick if you have one and really work on it from all angles and see if it helps. Its one of the few places that I see good results from foam rolling.

    I am a little concerned about my recovery today. A couple of hours after my workout my body is still shaking from lifting? It wasn't even a hard workout either. I wonder if doing the consecutive days is why? Its also making me think a little more about doing 1 heavy lift a day and then treating the others as assistance lifts or easy strength lifts. I'll be cognizant of it next week and see if I feel the same way after doing a MWF split vs the TTF I did this week. I have also noted a pretty good increase in speed on my commutes I wonder if that has something to do with it?
  18. Bare Lee Chapter Presidents
    1. Minnesota

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    Jul 25, 2011
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    Yah, I think I need to spend more time during squat warm-up focusing on technique with lighter weights, and pausing down in the hole, as I did a few weeks ago when I first began to adopt AtG technique.

    Thanks for the tips and confirmation. I wonder if sitting so much during my trip last week made everything tighten up? I'll foam roll my upper leg in a bit. I also gotta get back to rolling my lower leg with the stick. In general, I need to do the stretching and massaging more preventively, and not just reactively when a niggle pops up or I'm feeling tight.

    It could also be that when I was doing my deadlifts on Monday, I rushed through them too much and allowed my form to get off, as I was pretty distracted by my son.

    The shaking sounds like some sort of hypoglycemic reaction. Did you have a good protein base before you lifted? I sometimes get that shaking if I've had too much fruit or carbs during the day. But it can also happen if I refuel too quickly afterwards.

    I'm currently doing one heavy lift, squats or deadlifts, per workout, and then either rows or the bench press are medium lifts, in terms of muscle mass recruited and energy needed. That's why I like to categorize my exercises as bottom, middle, and top, which really translates into heavy, medium, and light. It's a good balance for me, and I like doing the heaviest first, when I have the most energy and motivation.

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  19. Abide Barefooters
    1. Arizona -...

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    Well I drank my protein shake like usual, but thats it, which is pretty common for me in the morning. It was kind of odd because I felt it in my grip, in my lower limbs and shoulders, like a weird twicthing sensation. It's completely gone now. I wonder if I am not eating enough in general my wife made a comment about my arms and shoulders the other day. I should probably pick up a cheap scale to monitor.

    I think I might do something similar, like push the DL on Monday, Bench on Wednesday and Squat on Friday.

    Alright Sunday I am planning a longer run and a MTB ride to kind of mimic the race the following weekend. I might try to do 2 hours of running one hour of riding. We'll see how that turns out. I am curious what kind of impact the longer cardio efforts are gonna have on my strength levels.
  20. Bare Lee Chapter Presidents
    1. Minnesota

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    I forgot you lift first thing in the morning, in that case, I wonder if you had enough for dinner the night prior. Maybe eat more of something like a sweet potato or brown rice?

    I can run in the morning with little or no food, but lifting is hard without at least two meals in me. Wednesday I felt weak after attempting 255. I'm not trying to restrict my intake on lifting days again. Maybe just diet a bit on running days?

    Anyway, I hope this was a one-off experience for you no matter what the cause was. Did your wife say your arms and shoulders are smaller or more defined? Scales and tape measures can be deceiving of course, if you're converting fat to muscle, or getting a bigger butt due to squats and need a bigger waist size. I'm still surprised I'm 250, but using the wife sight test, I'm losing some weight around the middle and gaining it around my butt, shoulders, and arms, so I dunno, as much as I'd like to lose the fat more quickly, I guess a more gradually approach with keep the strength gains coming. I'm hoping more consistent running will turn the tide a bit more on the belly front.

    I was thinking also, that if my two-week, fairly intense routine turns out to be too much, something like your idea of DL-Bench-Squat could work, but not immediately; I still need to push the rows more than the bench for a while I think, until I've achieved more of a back-front balance, so if the new routine doesn't work out, I'll go back to the one I was doing a few weeks ago, with the deadlift and squat just once a week instead of three times every two weeks.

    I think the longer cardio will mainly impact your strength if you do st during the recovery period of the cardio. I read somewhere that st can't impact cardio too much, because it doesn't really deplete energy stores too much, but the converse isn't true. That is, in the recovery period after cardio, your muscles will be busy replenishing themselves and so won't be able to go full out on the st. Also maybe something about how fast twitch and slow twitch fibers interact or differ. Sorry I can't remember the physiological particulars any better. I'll try to find the reference, I think I may have bookmarked it, in the meantime, here's some other related stuff: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17095931
    http://www.poliquingroup.com/Articl...in_For_Strength_Endurance_At_The_Same_Ti.aspx

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