Running gait and sandals

[Jaybird]

Well, after owning a pair of Luna sandals for a few months this morning
was actually the first time I've run in them. The Intel 10K is happening next
Wednesday and I'm worried about the heat and road conditions for a pure
barefoot, so thought I'd give this a try... It went sorta OK but there are a
couple issues I hope someone here might have solved...

First, the weirdest thing is my right foot tends to pick up little pebbles from
the heal and then they usually get stuck and i have to stop and flick them out.
What I find really interesting is that it seems to only happen on my right foot
and not the left, so I suspect it says something subtle about my gait, just not
sure what.

Second, also interesting, on my left side the back heal strap tends to slide down
and eventually I need to stop and pull it up. I just saw in the accessories thread
the idea of an anklet to hold it up so maybe that's the answer to this.

What words of wisdom do any of you have about quirks of running in sandals,
I didn't have any serious problem, did 5K this morning, in fact I think if I could
eliminate these two problems I might get to like the things. Could it be the anklet
on the right side would keep the pebbles out too??

 

[NickW]

What types of laces are you using? When I have these problems you mentioned (all of them) it's because of one thing, laces are too loose. I guess I have gotten pebbles in them because of running in mud or on trails too, but if I remember correctly you run mostly road.

 

[Jaybird]

I have the ATR laces, and yes, I run on road/sidewalk. My wife bought me some regular
black shoe laces, gonna try and loop those from the back strap and tie around my ankle
to see if it helps. Doing a long run Sunday, packet pickup Monday, and the event is Wednesday.

Tomorrow am going to scope out the route and see if I can just do it barefoot, which I'd rather.

 

[migangelo]

jay, learning to tie the laces is an art form. learning to run with them is a whole other skill. to learn both at once, that's a colosal task to take on. watch some videos on you tube. invisible shoes. lunas. many others have also posted. i can't describe it here but can maybe show you face to face. it would take a lot of back and forth on here and it's too much effort. trial and error either way you go.

good luck

 

[JustSayGo]

I lace mine up a little differently from what I've seen online and it seems to work well with less adjustment hassle. Also, I use 1/2 inch tubular nylon straps so I can use a single metal buckle to adjust tension (in one place - no extra knots). After feeding up through the toe hole, it wraps over the top of my foot on the outside, around the back of my heel, and down through the sole just in front of my ankle on the inside. Then slide the buckle on and wrap over top of foot and down through the sole just in front of ankle on the outside. Bring back up over top of foot, feed back through the buckle and pull to adjust tension. This can work as a slip on, but I usually loosen to take off/adjust tension after putting on anyway to get the right fit. I think the first loop going directly from toe hole around the back of the heel keeps the "heel strap" higher and avoids the issue you're having.

 

[NickW]

JustSayGo, do you have a pic of your lacing method?

Jay, I assume you meant the ATS laces. I had those and had a hell of a time getting them right, in fact never did, so I went back to traditional tying method because it was easier to adjust. I had the first gen of ATS laces though and it looks like they've made quite a few upgrades to them now, so maybe it was just mine...

 

[JustSayGo]

From the top:

Outside (note how this keeps the heel strap higher):

Inside:

This is a homemade pair from 6mm Vibram Cherry. I wrap the extra length of strap around the buckle a few times to keep it from flapping around. Hope this helps!

 

[NickW]

Interesting, it looks like you have the back strap holes much farther forward than normal... I almost thought you had the Unshoes Wokova strapping method at first when I saw the top picture but then noticed it did not attach a second time farther back.

 

[scedastic]

I've had the toughest time figuring out lacing on my sandals.
There are definite differences between right and left for me as well.
As far as gait, I think I do too much dorsiflexing while wearing the sandals vs bf, in a sort of instinctive urge to keep the sandal on all the way (even if it's not too loose). Not sure how to work through that.

 

[Jaybird]

Hmmm, ya guess its ATS, whatever, the wide black ones that make slip-on easier
I tried the shoe lace idea and that seemed to work well, other than being a bit tight.

This afternoon I ran the course for Wed. and its very barefoot friendly anyway, so I
plan to run the 10K with bare tootsies. Thank goodness the temperature has dropped,
was only 75 running today and that was warm enough. Had fun in some sprinklers
they had going near the half way point, hope they're on on Wednesday too

 

[rickwhitelaw]

Hi Jaybird,

I am glad you are doing the course barefoot. Often I over think the course and then discover that the conditions are not as bad as I thought they would be and the sandals stay in my pack. I always recommend starting out a run or a race barefoot and just see how it goes.

As for sandal wearing tips. I haven't found a way to keep pebbles out. I don't have too many problems. I have found that slower running picks up fewer. Maybe with a longer stride, the front will scoop up more rocks? A pebble will work its way out after a few strides or I do a stagger step with a foot shake to clear it out. I rarely have to stop completely. I wear my sandals very loose, which is why I rigged the extra "anklets" and I even tie those very loose. Tightening the straps just causes too much discomfort on the toe strap for me.

Wearing sandals also changes my running gait. With the extra protection, I push the pace a little and I am more on the ball of my foot, and I usually end up with sore calves. Something I need to work on.

But, even with all of the little problems, I would rather wear sandals than shoes anytime.

 

[scedastic]

Hi Jaybird,

Wearing sandals also changes my running gait. With the extra protection, I push the pace a little and I am more on the ball of my foot, and I usually end up with sore calves. Something I need to work on.

But, even with all of the little problems, I would rather wear sandals than shoes anytime.

+1

 

[Zetti]

with winter just around the corner I am considering getting a pair and just starting conditioning every once in a while so that when it gets really icy, I can slap them on without having to adapt too much to the laces rubbing etc.
It's nice to read these treads so I can have some ideas when adapting my own tying and wearing style

 

[Jaybird]

Good idea Zetti, if you don't wear them it might take a while to get used to the
strap between your toes. I wear them at work and around town a lot, have come
to like mine quite a bit.

Anyone here have Teva Zilch? They look good to me, have been tempted to get a pair.

 

[NickW]

I think TJ just bought some of the Zilches and someone else has them but I cannot remember who for the life of me... Too much school this week is frying my brain.

 

[Zetti]

Good idea Zetti, if you don't wear them it might take a while to get used to the
strap between your toes. I wear them at work and around town a lot, have come
to like mine quite a bit.

Anyone here have Teva Zilch? They look good to me, have been tempted to get a pair.

Yeah....luckily I wear Havaianas often so the feel (while tighter) should be pretty similar I am guessing...

 

[Tristan]

My gait definitly changes with sandals, I've got a couple pairs of Unshoes that I like very much. I love going bare but around my house all the roads are really rough and I struggle with the toughness of my feet. Pretty much any loop I've done so far has atleast one road thats chip seal, one they just did a week or two ago. Also the short loop has a gravel road.

Anyhow, I'm ok running in the feathers, the strap between the toes does annoy me a little but I can deal with it. I run with them very loose and I can feel the rubber move around while the feet are in flight. I'm sure that messes with my form a little, but I'm getting more used to them. However the Pah Tempes I've only tried to run with a couple times and I have some wierd issue both times my right arch starts cramping badly within just a few strides. I tried concentrating on form, and even purposely adjusting my form every which way yet my arch continues to cramp to the point I can only maintain a slow jog, or just walk. I just dont get it, I love them and wear them all around. I can even do some jogging in them like when I run along side my son while he is learning to bike recently. But if I put them on mid run after several miles of barefoot then my feet just cramp up. Maybe I just need to start training in them more, and from the start instead of mid run. Might do more of that if I start doing trails, or perhaps when winter comes along.

 

[rickwhitelaw]

However the Pah Tempes I've only tried to run with a couple times and I have some wierd issue both times my right arch starts cramping badly within just a few strides. I tried concentrating on form, and even purposely adjusting my form every which way yet my arch continues to cramp to the point I can only maintain a slow jog, or just walk. I just dont get it, I love them and wear them all around. I can even do some jogging in them like when I run along side my son while he is learning to bike recently. But if I put them on mid run after several miles of barefoot then my feet just cramp up. Maybe I just need to start training in them more, and from the start instead of mid run. Might do more of that if I start doing trails, or perhaps when winter comes along.

Hey Tristan,

Just a few notes on the Pah Tempes and your cramping.
1. You are just getting spoiled with barefoot running.
2. They are heavier than the feathers and maybe the extra weight, sole stiffness, extra strap thickness might be changing a few things. Try running with them loose, it might help with your foot being able to flex more.
3. Just more time needed to break them in.
4. Wear them casually or for hiking, not to run in.
Like you said, a great sandal, but I think maybe not the best to run in.

Rick

 

[Tristan]

Hey Tristan,

Just a few notes on the Pah Tempes and your cramping.
1. You are just getting spoiled with barefoot running.
2. They are heavier than the feathers and maybe the extra weight, sole stiffness, extra strap thickness might be changing a few things. Try running with them loose, it might help with your foot being able to flex more.
3. Just more time needed to break them in.
4. Wear them casually or for hiking, not to run in.
Like you said, a great sandal, but I think maybe not the best to run in.

Rick

Rick...
#1 For sure!
#2 Yeah on my scale they are 9oz for the pair vs my feathers were 4.4oz. And yeah stiffer rubber too, but still more minimalist than a lot of other so called minimalist shoes! I will try next time to go as loose as I can without em falling off. I have no idea when next time will be though... most of my runs are bare lately.
#3 Not sure if the PTs really need break in, but perhaps my mind needs to break in them a bit more and get to the point I can pretend I'm still bare and not alter my form.
#4 Thats what I normally do. I've had em about a month and they have pretty much become my primary footwear when I'm going to town or to work (at least on nights and weekends, got to dress for weekdays).

Thanks for the suggestions! They really are a nice Huarache and I'd recommend them to anyone, but perhaps for everything other than running.

 

[Last Place Jason]

I agree- typing huaraches is an art form. It took me months to figure out what worked well for me. I still use old-school leather laces, though... if I ever use them. I switched to regular shoes once there were choices that would fit my feet properly.

Regarding form with sandals- this is a bit of a disadvantage of learning to run by feel when barefoot. Anything that interferes with the sensory feedback loop will screw with form. It took me years to learn to run with the same form with any sort of shoe.