Politics

[NotSoDoomedRunner]

So in our profiles it asks which way you lean. Has anyone run the numbers to see what the breakdown of BRS members is? Just curious. I get called a hippie for it at work, so I have always thought of it as a left of center sort of thing... but I think Chaser hates my kind!

 

[Barefoot TJ]

No numbers run, but we've

No numbers run, but we've talked about this here before and at that other place that shall forever remain nameless. Hee. Seems that we have all types of people here, not one type more than the other, all walks of life, income levels, religions and lack thereof, ages, political followings, etc. The running the numbers wouldn't be a fair reflection anyway, since most members don't fill that stuff out.

 

[Chaserwilliams]

Awww... Come on man... Lol! I

Awww... Come on man... Lol! I dont hate left wing! In fact I agree with alot of left wing views, but lean more to the right.

Its these occupy people that give the left a bad name. The whole "Yeah man, lets go illegally occupy a place and 'boycott' big corporations while we sip our Starbucks and blog via google on our androids or Iphones and wearing designer lable clothes! But its wrong to send jobs overseas, even though the only thing on me thats actually made in America by and American is the money in my wallet, that came from a hard working Americans pay check straight to my unemployment check. Down with the current goverment, although I dont have an answer to how to fix it!" type of movement just sounds like a bunch of spoiled cry baby kids wanting everything handed to them on a silver platter....

Know what I mean?

 

[runner_mc]

Chaserwilliams wrote:Awww...

Awww... Come on man... Lol! I dont hate left wing! In fact I agree with alot of left wing views, but lean more to the right. Its these occupy people that give the left a bad name. The whole "Yeah man, lets go illegally occupy a place and 'boycott' big corporations while we sip our Starbucks and blog via google on our androids or Iphones and wearing designer lable clothes! But its wrong to send jobs overseas, even though the only thing on me thats actually made in America by and American is the money in my wallet, that came from a hard working Americans pay check straight to my unemployment check. Down with the current goverment, although I dont have an answer to how to fix it!" type of movement just sounds like a bunch of spoiled cry baby kids wanting everything handed to them on a silver platter.... Know what I mean?

I know what you mean. I'm not a fan of Starbucks coffee either. I'm not really sure about everything else you said, but I'm just not a fan of Starbucks coffee. I think they burn the beans when they roast them.

Other than that, I'm fairly to the left.

 

[ajb422]

lol, yes if you are going to

lol, yes if you are going to protest you should in fact protest things you have some understanding of.

It actually wouldn't surprise me if a fair amount of people here lean more libertarian than left. Its really not the same thing at all. And when you look at the few political discussions that take place most end up just being on the side of leave me alone. This is why I like the libertarians since that is pretty much my policy on politics.

 

[NotSoDoomedRunner]

I don't think Occupy has done

I don't think Occupy has done a good job with messaging and some people have snuck in just to be there or whatever. Which is going to happen with any young protest movement. Less so with Tea Party because who wants to hang out with a bunch of old people living off social security and medicare while protesting big government? I do think the income disparity has become a bit much and it is not just people working harder, but a systematic advantage to those who already start in a life of priveledge. In Texas a big part of that is tuition deregulation. And things like, the grad school I went to keeps considering not allowing people to have jobs while the go to school. I had a job, a baby, and was still an Army reservist when I went there full time and made As. I digress though...



I was just curious. Barefoot running seems like a hippie thing to me sometimes... but the paleo people certainly balance some of that with their crazy meat eating... or nuts or whatever.

 

[The Ramzev]

  Curious...why was the Tea

Curious...why was the Tea Party charged when they organized their protests for park fees, toilets, etc. but the Occupiers weren't?

 

[NickW]

Here in Oregon I saw the

Here in Oregon I saw the Occupy Portland had a lot of homeless people that came to stay at the encampments. They were able to stay, smoke pot, and not get harrassed by the cops for quite awhile which normally they can't sleep a single night without getting kicked out. The Occupy movement definately doesn't seem to understand that by costing all of us taxpayers more money for paying all the overtime for the police, repairs to the parks, etc, they are completely undermining what they are fighting for.

 

[Longboard]

It's interesting that the

It's interesting that the authors of the two major barefoot lifestyle books

"The Barefoot Book" by Dr. Daniel Howell, and "The Barefoot Hiker" by Richard Frazine are both politicaly and religously conservative.

In discussions over the years in The Society for Barefoot Living's members only forum, it has become clear that there is no correlation between barefoot lifestyle/running and political ideology.

Two years ago in RW barefoot and minimalist forums there was a similar thread, with members reporting political and religous leanings all over the spectrum.

Still, when walking through a downtown shopping district barefoot last week in 40 degree weather with almost no head or facial hair in straight leg clean non-faded jeans, a bewildered truck driver felt the need to flash me the peace sign.

The Summer of Love ended 43 years ago, but the Hippie/bare feet association lives on.

 

[Barefoot TJ]

barefoot ramzev wrote: 

Curious...why was the Tea Party charged when they organized their protests for park fees, toilets, etc. but the Occupiers weren't?

The Tea Party (old-timers) could afford it, since they had jobs; the Occupy (newbie kids) do not have jobs, so they can't afford it? Just asking? But it's okay, 'cuz when the kids become oldies, they too will be charged to use the potty.

 

[Barefoot TJ]

We have something in common,

We have something in common, AJB.

Good points, Chaser and Nick!

Peace, my brother Board! Much love!

 

[The Ramzev]

Tea Partiers aren't

Tea Partiers aren't necessarily old timers. It just happens that a lot of Tea paritiers have jobs so they can't travel to the rallies, the retired folks have the extra time which could be why it looks that way.

Expecting someone else to pay for their protest is just another example of our entitlement society. Just like the women with 15 kids who is mad because no one will pay to feed and clothe them.

 

[Peanut]

I'm not one to jump in on

I'm not one to jump in on political stuff but would just like to take a moment for some observations.

I was a "hippy" in the true sense of the word. I lived on several communes back in the 60's and 70's. I was very happy when Vietnam came to a close.

As a young woman I was horrified by the shootings of JFK, MLK and RFK.

There was a lot of protesting for many good reasons; racial and women's equality and ending the war, among a few of the top reasons.

For the following decades it appeared to those of us from the "beat" and "hippy"generation that the young people had the benefits we had hoped for but seemed complacent and not interested in furthering changes that still needed to happen.

Meantime, the WALL came down, women and people of color were finally gaining respect ( still a long way to go but it's a happening thing), and hope for future change coming seemed inevitiable and possible.

Now the people are looking again for change. They have taken to the streets.

This is a time honored tradition on a global basis; Ghandi, MLK and others. Yes, there are the good and the bad. Yes, there are those who take advantage of the moment for personal gain.

BUT, my impression of the Occupy Movement in general after speaking with those on the inside of it is that they are legitimately looking for change. True, many do have jobs and and education. However, I applaud thier efforts to draw attention to the matter of corporate running of the USA.

Within thier Occupy groups they are attempting to show that it is possible to self govern, feed the poor and be ecologically sound. They are not looking for hand outs nor demanding jobs. They are looking for equality in governing.

I'm sure all of us are rather horrified when elections roll around to find that Comapny A contributed X gazzilions of dollars to get Mr or Ms "smith" elected. We really must stop this.

Whether or not one agrees with the goal, a protest is legit and the fact that it is speading shows there is a problem that needs to be addressed.

If I did not agree with these folks on some level, I am still in support of civil disobedience, marches and protests for the good of the country. I am also proud that in the USA we don't have tanks rolling down the streets etc. There have been too many unfortunate police incidents but in general we are free to express ourselves.

Drawing attention to a problem is a good thing.

Remember, If you are a person of color, a woman, gay, of a particular religion, taxed without representation, free to purchase a firearm, etc etc etc. You have protestors to thank for fighting for you and /or drawing attention to the problem.

What we do about it follows.

Thanks for listening.

Peanut

 

[Chaserwilliams]

Tea party being an older

Tea party being an older crowd = with age comes wisdom, right? Lol!

There is deffinatley an entitlement issue in America.

And I somewhat agree that its easier for children of wealthier parents to become wealthy themselves. It takes money to make money most of the time. College isnt cheap, but it also isnt necessary for every damn kid in America to go to college, and I think part of our problem now is that people in my age group (Im 26) were told their whole lives that they HAVE to go to college or else they will become failures in life and live in a van down by the river... SO, all the kids go to college, for the same hand full of degrees, then get out and wonder why they cant find a job... CAUSE YOUR ALL LOOKING FOR THE SAME DAMN JOBS!!!! I went to 2 semesters of college and Im making more money now as an uneducated product of white trash than 90% of the people I know my age that went to college and got degrees.

What Im trying to say is that just because you went to college doesnt guarantee you a job. I have a friend that has some degree and refuses to take a job for under a ridiculousy high amount of money. So instead he sits at home and draws unemplyment and bitches because theres "no jobs out there, and I cant afford my car note and gas is too high and yadda yadda yadda" but yet hes turned down 3 or 4 jobs that pay pretty damn good starting out... Perfect example of the entitlement issue...

 

[ajb422]

Chaserwilliams wrote:Tea

Tea party being an older crowd = with age comes wisdom, right? Lol! There is deffinatley an entitlement issue in America. And I somewhat agree that its easier for children of wealthier parents to become wealthy themselves. It takes money to make money most of the time. College isnt cheap, but it also isnt necessary for every damn kid in America to go to college, and I think part of our problem now is that people in my age group (Im 26) were told their whole lives that they HAVE to go to college or else they will become failures in life and live in a van down by the river... SO, all the kids go to college, for the same hand full of degrees, then get out and wonder why they cant find a job... CAUSE YOUR ALL LOOKING FOR THE SAME DAMN JOBS!!!! I went to 2 semesters of college and Im making more money now as an uneducated product of white trash than 90% of the people I know my age that went to college and got degrees. What Im trying to say is that just because you went to college doesnt guarantee you a job. I have a friend that has some degree and refuses to take a job for under a ridiculousy high amount of money. So instead he sits at home and draws unemplyment and bitches because theres "no jobs out there, and I cant afford my car note and gas is too high and yadda yadda yadda" but yet hes turned down 3 or 4 jobs that pay pretty damn good starting out... Perfect example of the entitlement issue...

+a million



I also like that you point out this is to some degree the generation above them set them up for entitlement issues. My generation are incredibly selfish and want things handed to them, but after hearing how a lot of those peopel were raised I have to blame their parents on many levels. Here is a rather hilarious article that points it out. Its from my favorite comedy web page so its pretty entertaining to read, not a standard political article by any stretch of the imagination, but makes a good point regardless.

http://www.cracked.com/blog/5-ways-we-ruined-occupy-wall-street-generation/

Oh and as fair warning they occasionally use fowl language to make their points, and for added comedic value, if you are against this you probably shouldn't click, its not obsene or anything, but seems fair to point it out.

 

[NotSoDoomedRunner]

I think the Tea Party is just

I think the Tea Party is just as bad with the entitlement issue. They lived most of their lives destroying the environment and living off of an unsustaintable financial system, taking in unsustainable debt, they have always had the benefit of a government that did not cost them a lot, yet they want their Medicare and Social Security untouched... and if you touch it, then you better not let it take effect until my generation gets old enough to not get it... they went to school and used systems that had ever increasing bond debt which they are now paying and raising tuition on the current generation on, and in a system that was mostly government funded and tuition was regulated... now it is unregulated and more tuition funded... and then want to be taxed lower than today, where we have the lowest effective tax rate we have had in years... They want a system where they keep all their wealth that was built on a pyramid scheme on the backs of my generation while we are pay huge amounts of student debt... that is largely paying off things from when they went to school. And they are only fiscally conservative when it benefits others and not them... my two cents is that both sides want a free ride. One already got theirs and wants to keep it going, the other sees the unfairness and wants their chance, but it is unsustainable either way. Until we can compromise the current climate will continue.

 

[NickW]

I think it's great that this

I think it's great that this nation allows us to peacefully demonstrate and protest. What I don't think is great is those who in their protest block city streets, tear up city parks, smoke pot out in public, litter, etc.... Where's the equality in the rules there? If I was to go block public streets like the Occupy Portland did here, my butt would be ticketed, and then probably thrown in jail if I continued trying to block traffic. If you want to protest that is fine, but follow the laws, you're not special. Being special is exactly what these people are fighting against, yet they are going and breaking laws trying to be special? The parks here have closing hours, but did Occupy Portland care about them? No. These once beutiful parks are now crappy mud pits filled with litter, now surrounded by ugly chain link fencing to keep protestors out. This all costs the tax payers. They've cost us here in Portland alone, hundreds of thousands($200,000+) of dollars of damage to the parks and the overtime for the police to be incurred. This is where I have the problem with protesters. I am glad you want to protest and stand up for the little people, just follow the laws and don't end up costing me, the taxpayer more money that I don't have.

 

[ajb422]

To be fair knocking on our

To be fair knocking on our parents and grandparents for destroying the enviorment is a bit on the unfair side. They didn't know any better.

The problem with changing the rules on SS now is that the old peoples have been counting on that their whole lives. Us 20 somethings understand that the system we have no won't be in place then, maybe what we have will be better, maybe worse but not the same. We can't count on that so the intelligent among us will be prepared for some sort of change. I don't think the older generation so much has entitlement issues as survival ones. They understand that thing are messed up and a lot of it is the baby boomer's fault both in their policies and because there are just so damn many of them (which arguably is their parents fault) but you can't just cut off their only source of income when they are 65-90 years old. You have to raise ages and drop benefits really really slowly. At the same rate of which people realized that it wasn't going to be there. Thats why the older generation need to have their benefits untouched. I think calling it an entitlement issue may be overlooking some of the deeper problems with cutting these benefits.

As a side note, keep in mind if you went to a public university the tax payers paid a significant amount of money for your education. We all forget that if it wasn't for taxes we'd be paying the same amount of money in tuition that private universities charge, which is freaking absurd if you haven't looked at those numbers recently. I'm obviously not saying this is a bad thing, but it is important to remember that having public univerisities is the governments way of investing in you as a person. It is worth the risk to pay part of the money it costs to educate you in order that you become a useful memeber of society, which sadly we've been taught that the only way to do that is to get a degree, meh probably wrong, but working on degree number three at the moment so who am I to judge people for going to school lol. I think it is sometimes a slap in the face when students complain about student loans without also appreciating the fact that it could be a million times worse.

 

[NotSoDoomedRunner]

On the environment, they've

On the environment, they've known for at least 20 years and continued doing it. Those in our generation who gain power will most likely continue that though.



My point is not that education is too much now or too little back then, but the thing is I basically see the Tea Party and older people as largely having benefited from certain systems and over burderning other systems their entire life. Once it broke and our generation is pissed about it, they don't want to do anything to help.

Both sides are fighting for what benefits them the most, following human nature. This has the way it has always been and always will. Right now the problem is the vitrial and the refusal to compromise, so each side gets only gridlock or extreme positions get passed.

But for either side to act like they have some moral high ground over the other is wrong.

As far as breaking the law and that sort of thing, I'm glad MLK was not afraid of civil disobedience.