Nyal's Rant of the Day

[Nyal]

Dear Minimalist Runners,



I believe you are running with better footwear. I believe that you will be better off in the long run. I use minimalist protection on a lot of my runs, like if it is cold, or hot, or too much gravel, or if my feet aren't feeling the groove. They are good. They are fine. But they are shoes.

If you run with something on your feet, you are not barefoot running. Really. It doesn't matter that the soleis thin and flexible. It doesn't matter if there are toe pockets. It doesn't matter if the blinking banner add claims they are barefoot shoes. You are not barefoot!

It's in the name! Bare and foot. Bare means naked, without covering. Foot means foot. If you sit on your butt and watch TV do you call that running? If you eat a dog turd, do you call that a fudge brownie?

Again, nothing wrong with shoes, we all use them. But they are shoes. They are not your feet!

If you only run in shoes, you are not a barefoot runner.

If you are stupid and try to transition slowly to minimalist shoes and get hurt you did not get a barefoot running injury. If you run in shoes you will not get the benefits of running barefoot, because you are getting the benefits of running in shoes.

Thereis no such thing as barefoot running style, unless you are barefoot. Minimalist running is not barefoot. Stop claiming something that is not yours or I will take the / from minimalist/barefoot running and shove it up your nose.

Sincerly,

Those who actually learned and trained to run barefoot.

 

[stomper]

Nyal, do curmudgeons like you

Nyal, do curmudgeons like you accept groupies? Sign me up!

Seriously, some days I feel like this. Mostly it is not when I see a minimal runner-- instead it is when I see an ad for "barefoot running shoes."

But on the other hand I am guessing that no one is more aware they are not running barefoot than people in minimal shoes. That's because unlike most runners in shoes, they've thought about it -- and decided that for one reason or another they didn't want to go all the way.

And (as groupies know), there are some experiences you just can't do half-way.

 

[Gkikas]

It's kind of like saying you

It's kind of like saying you "smoke pot... but don't inhale."

 

[Matt]

Well said!!!I have nothing

Well said!!!

I have nothing against shoes. But I agree that "shod runners" shouldn't be calling themselves "barefoot runners".

 

[jschwab]

I feel like it gets murky,

I feel like it gets murky, though. I consider myself a barefoot runner, because that is my ideal and I run as many miles bare as possible. It's that whole shoes as tools idea. I don't correct people when they refer to Vibrams as barefoot running, but I usually will bring up the subject in a roundabout way, either mentioning that I also run what I usually end up calling "barefoot barefoot" or "real barefoot" to make sure people understand what I mean. Or suggesting that they try it.

 

[Humboldt-explorer]

Ya know why the barefoot

Ya know why the barefoot runners will never succeed into a majority group ? Cause they have nothing to sell.

If your in a min shoe. You should be using the same exact natural gait as barefoot. What is such the strong desire to distinguish the two groups ? A min shoe runner, a barefoot runner have similar goals to run more natural. What the hell is the need to argue with one another ? I don't get it.

What I find most funny is BF runners must have a blogs. Then call themselves barefoot something. Then demand shoes to review so they can get a product for free without paying for it. Even though they are a "barefoot runner". Then at a whim they can wear a shoe due to surface changes that are unexpectable, but they are still a barefoot runner.

Then I realize with these reviews it becomes pointless cause it is just ones personal feeling on the product. Then the reviewer will barely criticize the product cause it was given to them for free, or they just don't know enough to understand what makes a well designed min shoe. Then the positive reviews stunt the growth of future generation products.

I've found myself much more proud to be on the daily BF side of the fence for day to day activities. Just doing things general barefoot. That side of the fence tends to think of it more as a tool of independence. A self empowering tool to remove shoes. Their is nothing to fight except how society looks at it. If I'm with no shoe, or in a min shoe we both are choosing a more healthy way to care for the body. If you include running in your activities you can do it both BF, or with a min shoe. It's called confidence. In America we have the choice to choose. As far as the body goes a injury with, or without a shoe is still a injury.

The running side of the fence. Seems to want to distinguish between a conventional shoe, min shoe, barefoot runner. In reality running is the ultimate goal, and each individual is at a different point in life. Will most likely go through different phases of their running life. At the end of the day running in any form is very repetitive, and whatever method you choose will produce injuries. So the more educated will include cross training of numerous activities that will ultimately reduce injury rate.

Barefoot runners, min shoes, conventional shoes, daily bare footers. It's most certainly a entertaining topic ! With many ways to view it all. I've chosen BF ( daily activities/running, and min shoes as a overall much more healthy way to live. Not really seeing a need to fight that. I also do many other outdoor activities so I don't find any need to defend myself with a BF runner label. Whatever is, or is not on my feet my injury rate is very low. Though I also have a very good understanding for human bio mechanics.

Entertaining rant. Thanks.......

 

[Jimmy Hart]

I can respect what you guys

I can respect what you guys are saying and I know Humbolt and I have already disagreed with my thoughts on Kigo but I have never given a "nice" review because I recieved something for free. If I ever do a review I give my complete thoughts on the product as well as try and put as much techinical information in it as I can. I have used my experiences to collaborated with companies to help in the design process to try and create better shoes. I will not however give a product a completely bad review unless it deserves it. For every type of shoe I've reviewed I try and look at it from all perspectives and relate as much information to those as I can. Not every shoe will work for everyone. The Kigo doesn't work for me because it's too tight in the forefoot but it has good qualities and I spoke to both the good and bad.

I think there are a lot of fair reviewers out there who don't care about the way we ended up with the products because we want to give you guys the best information we can. I agree there are a lot of people out there who are doing a great job of taking advantage of social networking to get free stuff and I hate being compared to that group of people. I do have a blog but I started it because I get a lot of questions and I thought it might be a good way to answer some of those questions while helping to educate those who want to learn from my 15 years of experience at all levels of running. It just so happens that I now have companies asking me to try their product and write about my impressions. I consider that an honor and a blessing so I do it gladly and hope that instead of being irritated by me that you would instead appreciate the fact that I give my free time willingly to be of some assistance to those around me (that's my hope at least).



As for the comparisons of BF and minimal. I understand your point Nyal and you can file this right up there with those who feel a need to separate the runners from the joggers, the runners from the racers, and so on. It's all just craziness. I had a meeting with a race director this week and the big question was whether or not to include minimal shoes in the BF category. The thought being that it would help generate interest and get more people to sign up and I agreed completely that they should at least say Barefoot/VFF category because the average VFF runner believes they are running barefoot. I know they aren't and god bless them for trying but you are right...bare is bare. I'm sorry to say that I think it'll never change though and at the end of the day I say we should all say "who cares". Sure the feet aren't bare but people are at least becoming aware and seeing the benefits of a less is more mentality and that is the more important part...for me at least.

 

[stomper]

Humboldt-explorer wrote:What

What I find most funny is BF runners must have a blogs. Then call themselves barefoot something. Then demand shoes to review so they can get a product for free without paying for it.

Humboldt, I believe you are suffering from internet-overload detection bias. If you utilize the noise on the Internet as a sample of reality, yes, you might say that "all the people who call themselves BF runners have blogs and are sluts for gear." But that's a poor sample. You can't detect the BF runners that don't have blogs, though I suspect there are quite a few here on this site.

One thing that following BF running has taught me is that the media chatter on the subject has little to do with reality. Practically all of the "argument" and bile on the subject of BF running is online. It is rare in person. I suspect that Nyal was reacting to things on the Internet, too-- because there would be a certain absurdity to someone showing up in shoes and saying "Hello I am a barefoot runner."

 

[Jimmy Hart]

Stomper you would be

Stomper you would be surprised at how many people have told me they run barefoot in "those toe shoes" and I've also been in races where people yelled yeah barefoot guy to someone in vffs. Vibram has done a great job of linking themselves to being a barefoot runner. I know they came by it honestly at first but it was smart to go ahead and run with it.

 

[Gkikas]

Jimmy Hart wrote:

...but it was smart to go ahead and run with it.

No pun intended?

 

[jschwab]

Jimmy, I think some heat

Jimmy, I think some heat should be taken off the bloggers, too, in the sense that reviews suffer from structural issues with timing. It took me about 150-200 miles in Zems to find out they don't work because of the seaming (gave me a nerve issue). Nobody spends that much time with a pair of shoes when you've just gotten the shiny box in the mail which is understandable. I think my problem is more with the blogification of information - I'd like to see more discussion in this community. It's hard to have to visit blogs all the time just to find out how heinous such and such chip n' seal race course was or what folks are up to and what issues they are facing. Call me old-fashioned and so 2002, but I like having the real community discussions.

 

[Jimmy Hart]

I'm with you Schwab...I don't

I'm with you Schwab...I don't know how someone can call it a review when they've only worn the shoes one time, not run in them, or only run a mile or two in them. I put my stuff through the paces before I speak about it. I recently wrote a review of the Generation UCAN drink and I've been using it since last November. I wanted to use it in all weather conditions, distances, and work out types I could before I spoke about it's abilities to do anything.

I also like talking about products here in the forum like you do. I enjoy the converation about it all and that ability to see what others think. I rarely get comments left on the page even though a review may have had tens of thousands of reads.

 

[stomper]

Jimmy Hart wrote:Stomper you

Stomper you would be surprised at how many people have told me they run barefoot in "those toe shoes" and I've also been in races where people yelled yeah barefoot guy to someone in vffs.

Really? It's funny, I haven't encountered that confusion nearly as much in person. But (speaking of limited samples), that's based on just a few encounters with minimal runners, probably 5 or 6 times in all, in the park or at races. I guess I don't get out much?

I think what I generally meant is that the discussion of BF running (not just the confusion over if minimal running "counts") is much more chaotic and polemical online than it is in person. In person I have had the occasional jeer from a car or whatnot, but usually people will talk to you and readily admit to gray areas. So one shouldn't take the online chatter as completely representative of the dialog that's happening out there. And thank heavens for that...

 

[NakedSoleNate]

I'm a blogger...kind of

I'm a blogger...kind of LOL...I don't go by a BF moniker (NSN here and on youtube) but that's it...I have no intention of reviewing any kind of shoe....but would be cool to get free kilts and espouse on the awesomness of doing anything in them....oh, and free beer would be nice, I'd gladly review that too....but then again my blog isn't just about running....it's all about me, me, me, me....and I'm not ONLY a runner ;-).

As far as the vff/bf debate...I tend to side with purists for MYSELF...no judgement on anyone else. But I think it's a huge disservice to perpetuate that running in vffs (or other minimals) is any thing like running barefoot...yes, the mechanics are SIMILAR (not idendical), but the sensation is a completely different experience....but REALLY the BIGGEST problem I have with the confusion ISN'T about running....it's about living. I can't even count how many times people say to me "You know, they make those toe-shoes, so WHY do you STILL insist on walking around barefoot all the time?" It gives the impression that SOMETHING on your feet is BETTER and MORE desireable than nothing. For some people, maybe that's the case, it isn't for me.

 

[Nyal]

I am also a barefeetsy runner

I am also a barefeetsy runner who does not go by BF Nyal. I don't have a blog but am good friends with Ej, who does. I know that he will never review anything.

 

[Barefoot TJ]

Nyal, I understand your

Nyal, I understand your frustration, but it's not nice calling anyone names. Please revise your opening post.

I plan to add a Reviews section to the BRS site, where we can add our reviews on footwear, compression sleeves, books, GU, etc., to it, with a rating system. This is something we had planned to do when we started the BRS, but now that there are so many of you doing it, I think the time is right.

J, I think you meant to say BFR community in your earlier post and not BRS community.

I don't have a blog.

I can't wear anything with an enclosed toe box, and so I have never asked to personally review shoes. I have had countless offers from companies to review their shoes, and I tell them each time that I am just not able to wear shoes without great pain, so any review I give would be unfair to them.

Being someone who has a very painful foot condition directly caused by traditional running shoes, I do happen to see the value in reviewing shoes though, as long as there are multiple reviews of the same shoe. This is why when a company contacts me/us to test out some shoes, give our opinions, and help them to create better footwear, I'm all for that, since I want to see more people running with less pain. I have and will continue to invite the BRS members to test and review these footwear offerings.

As far as the "barefoot shoe" oxymoron. It's something I still struggle with. I get extremely ticked off when people say they have been injured running barefoot when they in fact were running with something on their feet. But I understand the reasoning behind the minimalist footwear companies to want to draw more people to their product by coining a phrase such as barefoot shoe. I deal better with it when I think of all the people who will ditch their traditional running shoes and opt for minimalist shoes because of it.

Jason wrote to me about this subject just the other day in response to my inquiry of what he thinks about Merrell having a Barefoot Specific Division but banning barefoot runners. I hope he doesn't mind my sharing his thoughts here with you, but Jason's a pretty bright guy, and since he teaches psychology, he has a way of expressing in words how many of us feel much better than I can. Here's just some of what he said:

"I honestly never thought the "barefoot shoe" term would catch on. Who would have thought our tiny niche would turn into marketing gold? This really validates our point of view... which always feels good.



I stopped worrying about the use of "barefoot shoes" awhile ago once I saw the effects it had. Yes, it annoys me that it is an oxymoron, but the benefits are huge. Barefoot running is a media darling right now, which makes it an extremely effective marketing tool for the shoe manufacturers. The side benefit nobody seems to realize is the credibility it gives REAL barefoot running. Since they hear major companies using the term, they consider barefoot running to be a legitimate endeavor versus marginalizing us as a tiny group of weirdos that are just trying to draw attention to themselves. The net effect- when we talk about the benefits of barefoot running versus minimalist shoes, people listen. LOTS of people listen.



Had shoe companies picked up another term like "ChiRunning shoes" or "natural running shoes", we wouldn't have this surge in our audience. Egotistically, I think our approach to learning good running form is the best and will do what I can to get as many people on-board as possible. The shoe companies have A LOT of resources to help reach that goal."

 

[jschwab]

Yes, TJ - that is what I

Yes, TJ - that is what I meant! BFR.

 

[Barefoot TJ]

Would you edit your

Would you edit your post then, pretty please?

 

[jschwab]

Humboldt-explorer wrote:What

What I find most funny is BF runners must have a blogs. Then call themselves barefoot something. Then demand shoes to review so they can get a product for free without paying for it. Even though they are a "barefoot runner". Then at a whim they can wear a shoe due to surface changes that are unexpectable, but they are still a barefoot runner.

Then I realize with these reviews it becomes pointless cause it is just ones personal feeling on the product. Then the reviewer will barely criticize the product cause it was given to them for free, or they just don't know enough to understand what makes a well designed min shoe. Then the positive reviews stunt the growth of future generation products.

Thank you for ranting for me. This is my number one irritation with the BFR community. Still lots of love for those on the blogging path (no personal criticism). Just not alot of patience to wade through the shilling gear/getting famous side of things. Despite involvement from bloggers and development partnerships with barefoot folks, the shoes still suck and I never feel like I can trust the reviews. I want genuine information. I will review products here in the forums so it can generate a meaningful exchange but only ones I've bought myself.

 

[jschwab]

Done!

Done!