Need opinions of Altra Adams vs. Zem 360 now vs. Merrell Trail Glove
- Thread starter sprkthead2
- Start date
I haven't tried either the
I haven't tried either the Altra Adam or the zem360 but, based on my snowy experiences with Feelmax Osmas (have ventilating mesh upper - looks to be the same as the Adam) and Sockwas (have lycra upper - same material as the zems), I predict that the Adam will be superior to the zem. The mesh upper allows your foot to dry quickly, while the lycra upper actually retains the moisture, keeping your foot wet. Even if the ground is dry, these effects come into play if you're moving enough for your feet to sweat.
I haven't tried either the Altra Adam or the zem360 but, based on my snowy experiences with Feelmax Osmas (have ventilating mesh upper - looks to be the same as the Adam) and Sockwas (have lycra upper - same material as the zems), I predict that the Adam will be superior to the zem. The mesh upper allows your foot to dry quickly, while the lycra upper actually retains the moisture, keeping your foot wet. Even if the ground is dry, these effects come into play if you're moving enough for your feet to sweat.
Haven't personally ran in the
Haven't personally ran in the Altra Adams, but I do have the Zem 360's both in split toe and full toe box. I have used them more for walking around then running but that being said I did take the split toes out for a 10 km run last weekend and they performed quite well on the ice and in the snow. From my experiences with the Playlo's last winter, I would not recommend them for wet runs though, as they do get wet easily and tend to hold the damp feeling which will not allow your feet to warm up.
But if you are planning to use them for dry runs they are great with a good pair of thermal socks. But that's just my honest opinion.
Haven't personally ran in the Altra Adams, but I do have the Zem 360's both in split toe and full toe box. I have used them more for walking around then running but that being said I did take the split toes out for a 10 km run last weekend and they performed quite well on the ice and in the snow. From my experiences with the Playlo's last winter, I would not recommend them for wet runs though, as they do get wet easily and tend to hold the damp feeling which will not allow your feet to warm up.
But if you are planning to use them for dry runs they are great with a good pair of thermal socks. But that's just my honest opinion.
I second the issue with
I second the issue with wetness. These are absolutely terrible in water. Even in semi damp conditions its as if they suck up water from somewhere. I've never ran in the cold much, but I just wanted to stress how bad they are in water.
I second the issue with wetness. These are absolutely terrible in water. Even in semi damp conditions its as if they suck up water from somewhere. I've never ran in the cold much, but I just wanted to stress how bad they are in water.
Well the Merell trail glove
Well the Merell trail glove was added into consideration. Tried on a pair yesterday 0 drop, I can feel the forefoot thickness, feels odd, may have to try them on again. May end up buying a pair 20% off 110. Tried to find the running store locally that carries Adams but it looks like they went out of business. Uppon reading others reviews on the Adams I might also buy a pair. I found my old pair of kayaking waterproof socks, will try putting them to use along with either shoe in snow and slush.
Well the Merell trail glove was added into consideration. Tried on a pair yesterday 0 drop, I can feel the forefoot thickness, feels odd, may have to try them on again. May end up buying a pair 20% off 110. Tried to find the running store locally that carries Adams but it looks like they went out of business. Uppon reading others reviews on the Adams I might also buy a pair. I found my old pair of kayaking waterproof socks, will try putting them to use along with either shoe in snow and slush.
For snow and slush, I
For snow and slush, I recommend wool socks rather than waterproof socks. Try both and see what you think.
As for the Merrell Trail Glove, it has a rock-plate under the forefoot, not to mention a toebox shape that doesn't waver from convention. I wouldn't be surprised if there are also other aspects of the shoe that don't venture towards minimalism.
For snow and slush, I recommend wool socks rather than waterproof socks. Try both and see what you think.
As for the Merrell Trail Glove, it has a rock-plate under the forefoot, not to mention a toebox shape that doesn't waver from convention. I wouldn't be surprised if there are also other aspects of the shoe that don't venture towards minimalism.
NickW
Guest
The Merrell Trail Glove is
The Merrell Trail Glove is horrible imho. It looks great and has great tread, but for me, that's where the good stops. The rest is all bad. It's extremely tight in midfoot region, has a part of the sole that actually flexes up into the arch. While this is flexible and not inteded as an arch support it does cause me extreme arch pain. I've never been able to wear shoes with arches in them. They are terrible on the road with little ground feel and causing foot pain. According to MGBG they may not be great on road but are great on the trail. I never made it to the trail with them myself because they hurt me so bad on the road. The shoe is also really narrow in the footbed, like conventional running shoes. Not modeled after a real foot. If they would make a few small changes I think they could have a really great shoe, but unfortunately at this point they don't have anything but a great looking shoe imho.
The Merrell Trail Glove is horrible imho. It looks great and has great tread, but for me, that's where the good stops. The rest is all bad. It's extremely tight in midfoot region, has a part of the sole that actually flexes up into the arch. While this is flexible and not inteded as an arch support it does cause me extreme arch pain. I've never been able to wear shoes with arches in them. They are terrible on the road with little ground feel and causing foot pain. According to MGBG they may not be great on road but are great on the trail. I never made it to the trail with them myself because they hurt me so bad on the road. The shoe is also really narrow in the footbed, like conventional running shoes. Not modeled after a real foot. If they would make a few small changes I think they could have a really great shoe, but unfortunately at this point they don't have anything but a great looking shoe imho.
Here's my opinion after
Here's my opinion after owning all three and using them in cold weather. In terms of just protection from the temperature, the ZEM 360 wins. It has a neoprene upper, and that keeps your feet wicked warm. But you can't wear them with socks easily.
For trudging through snow, I would pick the Trail Glove. I like a little protection when the paths are really rutty with snow (you know...when everyone steps on snow before it gets shoveled and it turns into a landscape from the moon). I don't have the slush problem that others have had.
But if the paths are cleared, I prefer something with less outsole so I can feel whether I'm stepping on ice. I slip a lot on icy paths in my Merrells. There I prefer the Altra Adam because I'm just not a big fan of the outsole of the ZEM.
So I pretty much solved nothing for you I guess. It all depends on the conditions you think you'll encounter most. If you don't know, then I'd choose the most versatile of the options, which is the Altra Adam.
Here's my opinion after owning all three and using them in cold weather. In terms of just protection from the temperature, the ZEM 360 wins. It has a neoprene upper, and that keeps your feet wicked warm. But you can't wear them with socks easily.
For trudging through snow, I would pick the Trail Glove. I like a little protection when the paths are really rutty with snow (you know...when everyone steps on snow before it gets shoveled and it turns into a landscape from the moon). I don't have the slush problem that others have had.
But if the paths are cleared, I prefer something with less outsole so I can feel whether I'm stepping on ice. I slip a lot on icy paths in my Merrells. There I prefer the Altra Adam because I'm just not a big fan of the outsole of the ZEM.
So I pretty much solved nothing for you I guess. It all depends on the conditions you think you'll encounter most. If you don't know, then I'd choose the most versatile of the options, which is the Altra Adam.
The Merrell Trail Glove (or
The Merrell Trail Glove (or Pace Glove) seems to work well for narrow feet.
And the toe box is quite a bit wider and taller than a conventional shoe. In proportion to the rear and mid-section of the shoe, well, it looks clownish. But, plenty of room for the toes to do their thing.
There's a good bit of variance in the shapes and proportions of these three shoes - they may not all work for everybody, but one of them may likely work for you.
The Merrell Trail Glove (or Pace Glove) seems to work well for narrow feet.
And the toe box is quite a bit wider and taller than a conventional shoe. In proportion to the rear and mid-section of the shoe, well, it looks clownish. But, plenty of room for the toes to do their thing.
There's a good bit of variance in the shapes and proportions of these three shoes - they may not all work for everybody, but one of them may likely work for you.
Yes, the shape of the midfoot
Yes, the shape of the midfoot section too, in addition to the shape of the toebox, looked problematic to me. You can get a good idea about how a shoe is going to perform, just by examining the shape of its sole. That's the first view I look for when a new shoe is announced.
With such universal access to views of the VFF soles, shoe companies have no excuse for wavering from foot-shape in ways that are detrimental to the foot. I'm amazed that companies like Merrell and VivoBarefoot are trying to get away with it.
Yes, the shape of the midfoot section too, in addition to the shape of the toebox, looked problematic to me. You can get a good idea about how a shoe is going to perform, just by examining the shape of its sole. That's the first view I look for when a new shoe is announced.
With such universal access to views of the VFF soles, shoe companies have no excuse for wavering from foot-shape in ways that are detrimental to the foot. I'm amazed that companies like Merrell and VivoBarefoot are trying to get away with it.
I'll jump in on this one
I'll jump in on this one since I have personal experience on both shoes. For starters my good friend MGBG is wrong about the upper of the zems. It's not neoprene. It's a four way mesh that is thick and feels similar to neoprene but it's not. the density of the mesh with it's four way weave is why they hold water they way they do. it's a great material for feel and snugness without constriction but it's not going to help when wet. the sole of the 360 uses a rubber called gecko rubber which is very sticky and great on a dry surface but it's not very well suited for a wet hard surface. the 360 was designed for the roads but not necessarily the cold, wet, snowy roads.
with the adam you have a shoe designed for multiple terrains and purposes. it has an upper that will do more to help you avoid the temps. it dries faster and it is lighter in the upper using two types of mesh material. the one directly around the foot is more closed off where the over foot material is more open and breathable (think vff kso and it's two mesh upper). i think the sole of the adam is also better suited for sketchy winter terrains as well. it's baby's butt smooth but it's siped so it actually grips when flexed and the siped grooves are opened. it's designed that way to give better ground contact and feel as well as offer some traction. when those grooves get spread open and a wet surface is there to accept it you will create a vaccum in that groove which will, in a small and not so noticeable way, suck you to the ground keeping you stable. oh and it will go better with a sock, and a smart wool sock in this shoe is a seriously good combo (and i hate socks)
in short for what you described as your needs i'd go with the adam without much thought.
I'll jump in on this one since I have personal experience on both shoes. For starters my good friend MGBG is wrong about the upper of the zems. It's not neoprene. It's a four way mesh that is thick and feels similar to neoprene but it's not. the density of the mesh with it's four way weave is why they hold water they way they do. it's a great material for feel and snugness without constriction but it's not going to help when wet. the sole of the 360 uses a rubber called gecko rubber which is very sticky and great on a dry surface but it's not very well suited for a wet hard surface. the 360 was designed for the roads but not necessarily the cold, wet, snowy roads.
with the adam you have a shoe designed for multiple terrains and purposes. it has an upper that will do more to help you avoid the temps. it dries faster and it is lighter in the upper using two types of mesh material. the one directly around the foot is more closed off where the over foot material is more open and breathable (think vff kso and it's two mesh upper). i think the sole of the adam is also better suited for sketchy winter terrains as well. it's baby's butt smooth but it's siped so it actually grips when flexed and the siped grooves are opened. it's designed that way to give better ground contact and feel as well as offer some traction. when those grooves get spread open and a wet surface is there to accept it you will create a vaccum in that groove which will, in a small and not so noticeable way, suck you to the ground keeping you stable. oh and it will go better with a sock, and a smart wool sock in this shoe is a seriously good combo (and i hate socks)
in short for what you described as your needs i'd go with the adam without much thought.
also if you wait just a
also if you wait just a little while...you may find (due to some serious negotiation skills at the factory) an amazing price cut on a certain minimal shoe that altra offers....but you didn't hear that from me.
also if you wait just a little while...you may find (due to some serious negotiation skills at the factory) an amazing price cut on a certain minimal shoe that altra offers....but you didn't hear that from me.
Just received another pair of
Just received another pair of the Eve's to try... last time too small (in my usual running shoe size), this time OK at one half size up.
But... don't think I'll bother taking them for an actual run. Pretty sure they'll be going back.
Aside from the over-strappiness issues (I've mentioned elsewhere), the uppers just aren't working for me.
I've been wearing these shoes around the house for the last hour or so. The whole time I've been bugged by how tight the uppers are around the opening... especially tight over the top of my left foot (which has greater volume than the right) and cutting into both achilles. (Yes, the straps are totally disengaged. Oh, and the insoles are out.) I might be overly sensitive, but I just don't want my shoes digging into me. (Neither do I want them flopping about. Rather, they should just simply "be" - totally unnoticable.)
I'm down with the concept of a mono-toed thin VFF; but, these just aren't doing it for me.
Just received another pair of the Eve's to try... last time too small (in my usual running shoe size), this time OK at one half size up.
But... don't think I'll bother taking them for an actual run. Pretty sure they'll be going back.
Aside from the over-strappiness issues (I've mentioned elsewhere), the uppers just aren't working for me.
I've been wearing these shoes around the house for the last hour or so. The whole time I've been bugged by how tight the uppers are around the opening... especially tight over the top of my left foot (which has greater volume than the right) and cutting into both achilles. (Yes, the straps are totally disengaged. Oh, and the insoles are out.) I might be overly sensitive, but I just don't want my shoes digging into me. (Neither do I want them flopping about. Rather, they should just simply "be" - totally unnoticable.)
I'm down with the concept of a mono-toed thin VFF; but, these just aren't doing it for me.
Well I bought a pair of
Well I bought a pair of Merrell Sonic Gloves. Ran in them, found myself pounding on my forefoot, just can't get use to running in them. Too much rubber between the foot and earth, lost of sensitivity. I found myself trying to relearn to run in shoes. As far as fit, the toebox is a little to small for my feet. The forefoot does not feel flexible. They may be good for someone transitioning from running shoes to minimal. So they are going back.
I might give the Altra Adams a try. I just wish someone would make a shoe with a single wide toe box so your toes can splay and as thin as VFF with an upper made of gortex. For now I'll just wear my KSO's and try not to get my toes wet.
Well I bought a pair of Merrell Sonic Gloves. Ran in them, found myself pounding on my forefoot, just can't get use to running in them. Too much rubber between the foot and earth, lost of sensitivity. I found myself trying to relearn to run in shoes. As far as fit, the toebox is a little to small for my feet. The forefoot does not feel flexible. They may be good for someone transitioning from running shoes to minimal. So they are going back.
I might give the Altra Adams a try. I just wish someone would make a shoe with a single wide toe box so your toes can splay and as thin as VFF with an upper made of gortex. For now I'll just wear my KSO's and try not to get my toes wet.
NickW
Guest
I tried Merrell at one point
I tried Merrell at one point too and they are just way to small in midfoot region for me. I would strongly recommend the Altra Adam because of thinness and width of it. Just make sure you get the right size, unlike me who thought I had the right size but didn't....
I tried Merrell at one point too and they are just way to small in midfoot region for me. I would strongly recommend the Altra Adam because of thinness and width of it. Just make sure you get the right size, unlike me who thought I had the right size but didn't....
Just to get this out there.
Just to get this out there. Altra has dropped the price on the Adam! They got a better deal from the factory so they decided to share it with everyone. The Adam and Eve are now only $79 online. That's $20 less than before which I think now puts this shoe at the top of the list. you can't beat the durability, fit, and price of this shoe now.
Just to get this out there. Altra has dropped the price on the Adam! They got a better deal from the factory so they decided to share it with everyone. The Adam and Eve are now only $79 online. That's $20 less than before which I think now puts this shoe at the top of the list. you can't beat the durability, fit, and price of this shoe now.
