middle back pain (VFF)

[fjordrunner]

Hi, please can you help me with following?
I'm 33 years old and used to run in normal shoes a bit (10km) a week - not very much regularly. In the last 2 months I have started to run a bit more (20 km per week) + also changed my diet (was a bit overweighted). I have lost 15 kilos (in 2 months) - now I have 80kg. 2 weeks before I have started to run in vibram fivefingers (avarage 3-5km ). The running is very good - no problem with knees or feet. I'm landing on middle foot - no heel.
The problem is that during the day (not while running) I have started to get an middle/upper back pain - closer to backbone. The pain is while standing, sitting, walking. Do you think it is from the transition, bad running style or the fast weight loss?
Any information will help.
Thanks.

 

[Backfixer]

The problem is that you are seeing changes when running in a minimalist barefoot like shoe. I have made mention of this before based on my own study going from shod to not. The dynamics of running change to a mid foot stride while in barefoot like shoes. In my personal experience, I found wearing both a regular negative heel shoe at work and Vibrams created a similar effect in my upper back. I am built asymmetrically and I can only assume you are too, and running in the vibrams is likely exacerbating that, causing the pelvis to distort with mid back pain into the upper back (and I also am assumming neck tightness as well). You can check out my thoughts/videos and insights on this by reading my blog post http://www.backfixer1.com/blog/going-barefoot-almost-my-barefoot-experience-and-is-it-right-for-you-part-iii/

I suggest you should find a good chiropractor. The problem is in your core myofascia and the pelvis, and I am assuming your legs are also tight because of this. I may also suggest going back to regular running shoes and see if things feel improved just from that. Since there is no current criteria for who would do best with shod or barefoot running, it is largely hit or miss.

I hope that helps. If you would like, I would be happy to evaluate a video of you on a treadmill. You are likely over and under striding.

 

[fjordrunner]

Thank you very much for your help and useful information. My neck and legs feels OK. The problem is only with my back. I will wait one more week and see. If the pain will be still there I would like to ask for you evaluation.
Thank you once again..

 

[Barefoot TJ]

Have you tried to actually run barefoot...skin on ground? Try that first to see if anything changes with your form, which then could effect your back.

When we run in minshoes we mask our ability and try to do more than we are able. We also don't move in the same way we would if we were truly barefoot, something the good Dr. William hasn't tried yet...but we are still working on him.

We'll be here to support you in all that you decide, but if you do go back to "regular" shoes, find one that doesn't have an elevated heel, is zero drop (no elevation from heel-to-toe), not too much cushioning, and is extremely light and flexible. If you ask in the Gear & Footwear forum, you will get some good recommendations there.

Good luck to you.

 

[fjordrunner]

Have you tried to actually run barefoot...skin on ground? Try that first to see if anything changes with your form, which then could effect your back.

When we run in minshoes we mask our ability and try to do more than we are able. We also don't move in the same way we would if we were truly barefoot, something the good Dr. William hasn't tried yet...but we are still working on him.

We'll be here to support you in all that you decide, but if you do go back to "regular" shoes, find one that doesn't have an elevated heel, is zero drop (no elevation from heel-to-toe), not too much cushioning, and is extremely light and flexible. If you ask in the Gear & Footwear forum, you will get some good recommendations there.

Good luck to you.

thank you very much for your support - I will try to go running barefoot tomorrow or in 2 days (right after my blisters will heal). Will be back with updates soon.. ;-)

 

[Barefoot TJ]

Just run a little distance, no more than half a mile. Try to find a nice, clean, smooth, hard surface to practice on. Let your feet lead you. Have fun! I'm anxious to see how you like it.

 

[Hobbit]

Once you change your running form to midfoot or forefoot style you will usually experience muscle pain until your body gets used to it. Calf pain comes first, but then it goes up the whole muscular chain and you may feel pain in weird spots where you never felt any muscle pain before because you didn't use these muscles the same way.
In my case the sore muscles manifested themselves first in the calves, then in the buttocks and then climbed over a couple of weeks the whole backbone up to the neck.
So your pain might be just that: sore muscles due to transition.

 

[scedastic]

What else are you doing for fitness?
I found that once I started going barefoot, I needed to change my posture, balance and strength in my upper body to my torso. Cushioned shoes and the idea that I was built to be in pain (bunions, back pain, "overpronation") prevented me from thinking that my whole body was important.
The good news is that it solved a host of other problems, and back pain (which I used to have frequently) is but a memory now.
I"m not saying that's what your issue is, only that for me, my posture when I wasn't running was awful. It was hard to balance on one foot. I had never done adequate strength or core training. Wearing non-cushioned shoes allowed me to figure out how little ability I had to balance myself on a day to day, let alone when running.

OH, and +1 to all the skin to ground recommendations.

 

[Sid]

I went through some similar transitions a few years ago. Lost 35 kilos. After getting rid of aches and pains in one area, I got them in another. It ended up just being my body settling in to being in shape again. Some parts needed to get stronger, some more flexible, some realigning. I actually regained a half inch of height! All this occurred over a year or more.

I took up swimming this year and am going through a similar process with that.

Of course, if it's bad, get it checked out. Mine was typically soreness, resolved with massage and stretching.

 

[Sid]

I am built asymmetrically and I can only assume you are too

I just realized that I asymmetrical, too! However, my problems were exacerbated by regular running shoes. It all makes sense now!

I started running in college on a campus trail, and had no problems. After moving away, for the next 12 years while trying to run on the road, a small muscle on the left side of my back would always flare up. This caused me to start and give up running several times.

When I started barefoot running, no flareups. Though it was obvious that my feet weren't landing the same. (Left foot has a bunion, right is flatter.) My right foot became more muscular than my left, and still is. After 2 years, my body has adapted such that I could run some decent distances barefoot or in minshoes without any problems.

Nowadays, I prefer trails again because I like the variation in terrain, the natural environment, and it is easier on my joints. Thanks for sparking an epiphany!

 

[Barefoot TJ]

I think that's key, Sid, adaptation, like you said. People are like, "OMGosh, I have a pain here or an ache there." They don't realize it's because they have been weakened by their shoes and orthotics. It takes time to strengthen the bones, muscles, and connective tissues. It doesn't happen over night. So they think, "I must be defective. I need shoes again. I need orthotics to correct my imbalance." It's sad really, but I think if people would put the time into going barefoot, even walking, as much as they did going shod, they wouldn't need those crutches. MHO.

 

[Spinningwoman]

I can only add +1 to those who are saying run actually barefoot before you try to run in VFFs or other minimal shoes. It's not the same. I find it easier not to start running from my house, that way I'm not tempted to wear shoes just to avoid embarrassment. I found a great park with nice smooth grass, no dogs, woodland trails and reasonably runnable asphalt and gravel paths and I drive there to run.

 

[Bare Lee]

I've never had back pain, so different history, but I've found, in keeping with Scedastic's remarks, that good posture, balance, and strength are key to living without aches and pains. Strength training done with good, controlled form can help posture because good form is, in essence, good posture, so you're training the muscles for good posture at the same time you're strengthening them. I also think it helps enormously to be limber, however achieved (static or dynamic stretching, yoga, jazz dance, etc.). Anyway, this has been what works for me. A good mattress is also crucial . . .

All the best on finding your cure!

 

[jcornelius6]

I can recommend Rolfing! Some years ago, I had serious backpain and searched for a resolution.

About that time I also began the transition from shod to barefoot.

First I ditched all of my heavy old boots and bought some crocs offroad, but they made it actually worse. I got real bad pain in one foot and changed to Vivobarefoot.
They made the trick!

About that time my Rolfing Therapy ended and I began with Yoga.

I bought my first Fivefingers and started to walk in the forest.

My backpain eased and my feet got better, but I think when I hadn't made the Rolfing Therapy, the transition would be a lot more difficult for me.

So, when you're not asymmetric or have a bad posture, then I recommend Rolfing! And the Alexander technique! Both are great tools to straighten you up and be in line again.

http://www.rolfing.org/

Bye,
Alex