How do you all pick your routes?

[happysongbird]

As for surfaces, I think one can adapt to just about any surface, it's just a matter of whether it's worth it or not. If you (Laura) are training for triathlons, you need to worry about speed, right? For me, barefooting is key, so if I had nothing but gravel, I would try to make a go of it and see if I could hack it at decent paces. BTW, what do you mean by "tar-covered-chip-seal-that-never-dies"?

As for the Moc3s, I never wear socks when I use them as back-up, but if I head out with them on, that means it's pretty cold already, so I will start with socks on too if the temps warrant it.

The chip sealing used to be just part of the process and after a while the road would be made smoother; or, they wouldn't do it SO often and it would have time to wear down during the year. It seems like they are doing it more often AND using something that just stays pointy! hmph!

As for speed, I realize I'm not preparing for the Olympics or anything of that sort, but I would just as soon run according to my capabilities and work on improving those. It makes it more fun.

 

[Bare Lee]

The chip sealing used to be just part of the process and after a while the road would be made smoother; or, they wouldn't do it SO often and it would have time to wear down during the year. It seems like they are doing it more often AND using something that just stays pointy! hmph!

As for speed, I realize I'm not preparing for the Olympics or anything of that sort, but I would just as soon run according to my capabilities and work on improving those. It makes it more fun.

Yah, I agree. I have lots of cement, asphalt, mild chipseal, and a little sandy gravel to choose from. It's a nice mix for me and I feel like none of it impedes my running, qua running. I would imagine I could get good on hardcore gravel if need be, but it would take a while, and wouldn't be much fun while I was adapting. It's too bad you don't have more options where you live. I hope you find a good solution.

 

[NickW]

Laura, having traveled through Idaho pretty frequently, I've seen the chip seal you all have. It's like MT chip seal and it's no joke. If you can run on that stuff you are a much stronger person than I am. Of course, we really don't have chip seal much here in OR. Very rare here actually, although people here say they run on it all the time... I think for the most part the stuff they run on is just rough blacktop.

 

[rickwhitelaw]

The chip sealing used to be just part of the process and after a while the road would be made smoother; or, they wouldn't do it SO often and it would have time to wear down during the year. It seems like they are doing it more often AND using something that just stays pointy! hmph!

I think Utah and Idaho must be using the same source of rock for their roads lately. This stuff is nasty and doesn't seem to smooth out with time. It really fouled me up in my recent marathon. I think the road department must have a deal with the tire companies.

So, it's great that you are considering a half marathon as a goal, it's one of my favorite distances and very achievable barefoot. So on routes, I just go out and explore. I love variety. Pre-marathon I was running mostly roads and I found myself craving the dirt. I know I need a little more structured training schedule for my next marathon so, I am also interested in some advice from our long distance barefoot mentors.

 

[rickwhitelaw]

This is what I think the factors are:

1. Up until now the pace that my feet could handle on the rough asphalt/tar-covered-chip-seal-that-never-dies was about the same as the speed I had worked up to. Now, I am more frustrated because I could go faster in all ways except for the feet. Question: Will my feet ever get accustomed to running faster on this kind of surface? Is it good for me and I should still do it regularly enough to help condition my feet?

2. The terrain seems to change every 10 minutes. I would be frustrated putting my shoes on and off that frequently. It breaks up the run too much. Yes, it's probably partly more difficult because I wear socks with my Mocs. And I run with my dog. Always have to have one hand for the leash. Question: Do those of you who carry shoes slip them on and off multiple times during runs? Or once they are on, do they stay on? Do you wear socks?

3. I switched to totally barefoot because it made significant difference in my form, and thus injury. Now, even the barest of footwear is not as fun. I really like the open air feel aspect, too. It's hard to imagine there is a sandal with as good of ground feel as the Moc3s. Question: Does anyone who runs longer distances use sandals, and if so, what kind? I keep hearing about rubbing between toes and such? That worries me. And debris getting stuck in there?

Thanks for thinking about this with me!

1. I'm still trying to figure this out, but lately my feet have felt great and I am adding a little more speed to my runs. I think first, do the distance, no matter how long it takes. Walk the rough stuff if you have to. Then when you can do the distance comfortably, then start adding some speed.

2. If the terrain changes every 10 minutes, then don't mess with shoes. I start every run barefoot, go as long as I can, and then finish with sandals only if I have to.

3. Exactly how I feel, but I am starting to run with sandals again. I have every model of Unshoes sandals and I tend to go with the Wokovas for trail running. Toe rubbing is only an issue at first and debris is not a problem.

 

[happysongbird]

1. I'm still trying to figure this out, but lately my feet have felt great and I am adding a little more speed to my runs. I think first, do the distance, no matter how long it takes. Walk the rough stuff if you have to. Then when you can do the distance comfortably, then start adding some speed.

2. If the terrain changes every 10 minutes, then don't mess with shoes. I start every run barefoot, go as long as I can, and then finish with sandals only if I have to.

3. Exactly how I feel, but I am starting to run with sandals again. I have every model of Unshoes sandals and I tend to go with the Wokovas for trail running. Toe rubbing is only an issue at first and debris is not a problem.

I like the look of those, except for how thick the sole is. I'm used to the 2mm Moc3 sole. Of course, with it thinner, there might be more chance of dirt getting in?

 

[happysongbird]

Laura, having traveled through Idaho pretty frequently, I've seen the chip seal you all have. It's like MT chip seal and it's no joke. If you can run on that stuff you are a much stronger person than I am. Of course, we really don't have chip seal much here in OR. Very rare here actually, although people here say they run on it all the time... I think for the most part the stuff they run on is just rough blacktop.

Thanks, Nick. It helps me mentally just to have you verify what I'm talking about! (but what does MT chip seal mean?)

 

[NickW]

Well, MT and ID both do chip seal the same way. Apparently there is several ways to do it, some of the ways being more smooth than others (ID, and MT for example are not smooth or barefoot friendly). A while back there was a thread about chip seal and I posted some pictures of the chip seal I am familiar with from MT and ID and everyone here thought I was nuts and that the stuff was not chip seal. Apparently some states even coat the top of the gravel with a sealant of some sort, which helps smooth out the surface.

 

[Agnesd]

This is what I think the factors are:

2. The terrain seems to change every 10 minutes. I would be frustrated putting my shoes on and off that frequently. It breaks up the run too much. Yes, it's probably partly more difficult because I wear socks with my Mocs. And I run with my dog. Always have to have one hand for the leash. Question: Do those of you who carry shoes slip them on and off multiple times during runs? Or once they are on, do they stay on? Do you wear socks?

As for the changing of shoes, I like my Unshoes Wokova Feathers. The little elastic band makes them pretty easy to get off and on. I can get them on one handed now without much fuss. Though if was running on terrain that changed that frequently, I might just keep them on.

As for the running with a dog, there are lots of no hands dog leashes out there. This one is my favorite:
http://www.ruffwear.com/Flat-Out-Leash_6?sc=2&category=15
It has a quick release buckle that you can adjust to either hold in your hand, or go around your waist, and it also has a traffic handle for better control of your dog if needed.

 

[happysongbird]

As for the changing of shoes, I like my Unshoes Wokova Feathers. The little elastic band makes them pretty easy to get off and on. I can get them on one handed now without much fuss. Though if was running on terrain that changed that frequently, I might just keep them on.

As for the running with a dog, there are lots of no hands dog leashes out there. This one is my favorite:
http://www.ruffwear.com/Flat-Out-Leash_6?sc=2&category=15
It has a quick release buckle that you can adjust to either hold in your hand, or go around your waist, and it also has a traffic handle for better control of your dog if needed.

Yeah, I looked at the Unshoes and the Feathers definitely look interesting for summer back up.

I may run the no hands leash idea by the gal that "trained me" to control my dog. My dog is still a bit unpredictable, so I need to be able to respond. So many things to consider...

Thank you very much for your input.

 

[happysongbird]

This string has been so helpful to me, I'd like to use it as the basis for one of my blog articles. Is that okay with you all?

 

[jldeleon]

I guess it depends on what you mean by "smooth". Once I changed from pavement/road running to trail running, it became SUPER easy to run on pavement from a strength (and therefore speed) perspective. Which makes sense because you use more muscles when you are trail running, and certain muscles become stronger than they would just trail running. Trail running is what one of my hardcore marathon running friends does all year round. It works perfect for her.

The terrain on the trails, where I am, are variable in that they go from dirt (mud) to small gravel, to gigantic gravel, and of course there are all different degrees of incline/decline. I have used (very modified - cuz I cut them up) VFFs on them in the winter for traction purposes mainly (cuz of all the slick mud). In the summer I am barefoot, except this last summer I finally started wearing Lunas cuz the grounds was excrutiatingly hard and it made the gravel super-duper painful. Now that winter is here, I can eventually start doing more barefoot again when I am so inclined to re-learn how to balance on slick mud, barefoot.

I just got the Moc3s and I think they are DEFINTELY the thinnest thing you can get. I would bring those with me and slip them on when I need to. I have not worn them on the trails yet, because I am thinking of keeping them at work, to wear only at work (they aren't waterproof - boooooo).

Our main trail out here is 40 miles long so there are plenty of opportunities to go exploring, however, it mostly looks all the same, so there are generally not too many surprises. But I ALWAYS bring sandals when exploring new territory - which I generally only do in the summer.

 

[rickwhitelaw]

I like the look of those, except for how thick the sole is. I'm used to the 2mm Moc3 sole. Of course, with it thinner, there might be more chance of dirt getting in?

Ground feel is a little bit of sacrifice, I have the 6mm sole and it works great for trails. I can't see ever needing a 10mm unless I would like to increase the distance on rough trails with sandals. If Tfox at Unshoes ever has a few to demo, I might try them out. The feather is great for ease of putting on and off and has a little better ground feel. I believe though, the thinner the sole on a sandal, the more floppy it will be. I seem to get a little more performance out of the Wokova vs. the Feather. Now, on rough roads, the Feather makes a great backup and is lighter to carry. As for dirt, no problem. I actually like a little dirt to get in there to dry out my sweaty feet. The soles sometime get slippery if no dirt is available. Sometimes a small pebble will get in there, but you just step lightly for a few steps and it usually clears out. Or, you do a stutter step with a foot shake to get it out.

Ok, now with all this sandal talk, there is something to consider, they don't work well in wet and muddy conditions. Barefoot or some other type of minshoe will be better for that.

I hope all this is not confusing the heck out of you. Maybe the best thing is to just stay barefoot, those rough stretches will get easier with more time.

 

[happysongbird]

I hope all this is not confusing the heck out of you.

As I said, it's all been so helpful, I'd like to write a blog post about it, if everyone who has commented is okay with that. I can quote each of you or refer to you as clearly as you would like.

 

[rickwhitelaw]

Go for it. I look forward to reading it. You don't know me too well, I do tend to change my opinions weekly, if not daily, and rarely have my serious cap on.

 

[NickW]

Hey Rick, don't you have some Pah Tempes? Are those slick too when wet and muddy? I've seen a lot of reports that say they are amazing for that stuff compared to any other sandal.

 

[Robbi]

I'm a little different (yes, aren't we all ). I have an area which I know is relatively traffic free and has a variety of road surface to run on. I'd say on a scale of 1 to 10, with 10 being gnarly chip seal (there's some near my house, and I don't ever see anyone getting used to that, it's like small shale daggers embedded in tar) I'm running mostly on a 3 surface with patches ranging down to 5 which I can avoid but will often run on to toughen up a bit.

I run in a square-ish area about 3km in circumference, which I can slice and dice into smaller circuits as necessary. I like to run laps so that I can run past the car where I have additional water and gatorade stashed, and there's a park on circuit with bathroom facilities as well. As my long run edges further and further the need for fuel and water will grow so my lap tactic will become quite necessary.

I follow a plan utilizing three distances: a short or recovery run, a regular run which is twice the recovery distance and then a long run which is three times the recovery distance. By modifying circuit length and number of laps I always end up back at my car . I am also one of those who can run on a treadmill for an hour staring at a brick wall - doesn't bother me.

 

[rickwhitelaw]

Hey Rick, don't you have some Pah Tempes? Are those slick too when wet and muddy? I've seen a lot of reports that say they are amazing for that stuff compared to any other sandal.

Yes, I love them, but I haven't run too many miles in them. I have experimented a little in the mud and they work much better than the other sandal models. The wider straps help with that.

 

[AnneTanne]

I live near a canal with a beautiful towpath along it, and I often run along that path.
To the south, the pavement is rather smooth asphalt, to the north it is quite rough chip seal.
To reach the tow path, I have to go about 500 m, which is 200 m of velvety smooth concrete, than 100 m of rough asphalt, and 200 m of dirt road with coarse and pointy gravel.

I take my huaraches for the dirt-road-gravel part, and start my run in southern direction. When coming back, I try to run a part of the chip seal part of the path...

I'd love to run on the other side of the canal, where I used to have several beautiful trails in the woods, but I haven't been running on trails since I started running barefoot three months ago. But with the weather getting colder and wetter, I guess I'll go searching for some minimalist solution for the coming months, and then I'll go in the woods again.

When I was running shod - and on trails - I often used the routes of the network I described in this blogpost.

 

[NickW]

Yes, I love them, but I haven't run too many miles in them. I have experimented a little in the mud and they work much better than the other sandal models. The wider straps help with that.

Ya I read somewhere that the way the strap crosses the foot multiple times helps with the stability too, despite being in mud. Can't wait to get mine, should be another two to three weeks I guess according to email I got from Terral. I am really looking forward to them, although I also just ordered some Soft Star Dash Lites too, so wondering if I'm going to like one more than the other, and kind of hoping that I will actually like and use both of them, instead of one being relegated to mostly closet duty... I hate wasting money on footwear (yes I hate it despite me spending lots on shoes, I just have yet to find footwear that fits my wide feet AND meets my minshoe/sandal requirements).