Came across this searching for some key words...
http://www.allthingsgym.com/huge-list-of-training-programs/
http://www.allthingsgym.com/huge-list-of-training-programs/
Yah, that passage stood out for me as well. I wonder what he considers 'moderate intensity'?He makes an interesting observation from a body composition perspective.
"Aerobic work, when performed at low intensities, are valuable in assisting recovery from intense workouts. Anaerobic interval training, when done at or near lactate threshold, assists in fat loss through the production of growth hormone levels.
Strangely, moderate intensity endurance training seems to be most counter-productive for athletes interested in improving body composition— they wear you down without producing the hormonal environment conducive to fat loss."
This article is a very different perspective than his hate cardio article in T-nation.
So you don't think there is validity cycling the lifts between your workouts and doing all one modality per session?
Came across this searching for some key words...
http://www.allthingsgym.com/huge-list-of-training-programs/
Yah, that passage stood out for me as well. I wonder what he considers 'moderate intensity'?
Wow, great find. Although when you see so many programs laid out like that, you realize how arbitrary the manipulation of parameters is. Up through intermediate level, all programs work, right? It's just a matter of finding one that fits one's personality, time, and energy. Still, I'm a little bummed that my 583 Six Lifts Fractional Loading program wasn't listed. The fitness world better get with it, and send me $19.95 + shipping for my DVD series.
Yah, that was kind of the idea last summer/fall when I was doing 3x1/3x3/2x5.
Yah, I was being cheeky. There's nothing new under the sun. I'm doing a Full Body DUP with Fractional Loading, to be exact. But if I call it the "583" program, I can pretend I've come up with something entirely new and impress Christian Thibaudeau.Sorry you are basically doing the undulating method with all 6 lifts. It's maybe a strict interpretation of the program. I'm just curious as to why you aren't alternating the three rep ranges with exercises each day. Basically what I am doing below.
That looks like a nice set-up. Eventually, I would like to have more variety like that as well, but for the moment, it's easiest for me to track progress by simply doing the same damn lifts every workout, just varying the rows and pulldowns.Anyway I think I am going back to something like yours next cycle. While adding a little variety to see if that helps with overtraining a bit. It may be ambitious though.
Yah, that was kind of the idea last summer/fall when I was doing 3x1/3x3/2x5.
Yah, I was being cheeky. There's nothing new under the sun. I'm doing a Full Body DUP with Fractional Loading, to be exact. But if I call it the "583" program, I can pretend I've come up with something entirely new and impress Christian Thibaudeau.
On a somewhat more serious note, I do think the fractional loading component is an interesting twist to DUP, and turns it into sort of an Easy Strength approach. It's way too early to tell, but I'm really liking how comfortable everything is, and how each week just adds a pound or two to each lift. It's very seamless. The potential drawback is boredom, because it feels like you're doing the same damn workout each time. But I have a pretty high tolerance for repetition, and I feel like I'm getting pretty good results. Yesterday when I was loading the deadlift for 229 I thought to myself, "this is ridiculous, just make it 230 and screw the little plates." But then I thought about how patiently adding just a little bit each week would eventually lead me to 400 by the end of the year, without really trying, at least in theory. So I'm sticking with the tiny rings. I guess the Easy Strength concept, or Wendler's prescription to start the 5/3/1 program lighter than feels necessary, is finally starting to make sense to me.
Anyway, thankfully, most of the links I tried on that All Things Gym list are defunct, so I don't need to get confused again by the endless possibilities of mixing and matching reps/sets/volume/frequency/intensity. I just got to stick with my current program and I'll be hitting PRs on all four of the performance lifts by summer sometime, every workout. Good motivation.
I guess the reason behind doing everything with the same rep-count in each workout is to stay with the same energy system or combination of energy systems. fiber types, blah, blah, blah. Like almost all lifting protocols, the choice is fairly arbitrary. I could easily do a stage system like I did last summer/fall, or do some of the lifts 5 reps, some 8, some 1-3 in a single workout. I guess for the time being I'm going with the Medium/Volume || Light/Dynamic || Heavy/Intensity alternation for all six lifts at a time. If nothing else, it makes the workouts more mindless, which is always a good thing.
That looks like a nice set-up. Eventually, I would like to have more variety like that as well, but for the moment, it's easiest for me to track progress by simply doing the same damn lifts every workout, just varying the rows and pulldowns.
One question about your set/rep variation. Is that a decision based on the feel of each lift, or are you doing more sets/reps for some because they are 'weak' compared to the others?
One thing for us to keep in mind is that sometimes those guys are talking about advanced programs, sometimes beginner's, but they don't always contextualize it properly. I read somewhere that Yates would just do one heavy set, but that guy was so primed that that's probably all it took. I just go by feel. For the squat, for example, I can do four or five sets of five reps at 85%, but more than three sets of eight reps at 75% would feel like murder. Just three more reps in a set, even at 10% lighter, really changes things for me. Tomorrow, I might experiment a bit with the PaP/descending sets idea, as I think I mentioned a day or two ago (that's the second or third time T-Nation seems to have provided a timely article based on one of our discussions!), and start off with singles and doubles and then settle in for 2-3x3 straight sets across. The trick, for me, is to make it to the rows, my last lift, with enough energy to do a decent job with them. When I finish the rows, I'm usually ready to do a Roberto Duran impersonation and plead "no mas." Then I know I hit everything just right.Most of the links are dead but you can google the names to find them.
There are so many different thoughts, for example on that article I just posted he believes in PaP, but If you read Staley's stuff he states multiple times one heavy work set is all you really need. These are some of the huge variances I see between some of the strength gurus. I really like both of these authors too and both are very strong so obviously more than one method can work. Yeah everything works until you want to lose weight or run ultras!
Moderate intensity would likely be a tempo run, he likes hard and easy runs nothing above aerobic and below lactate threshold. So basically sprint, hard intervals or run slow I think.
In regards to the hybrid athlete, he states that most lifting and running programs need to be stripped down to be successfully combined. I am wondering though if maybe I could get the same benefit doing only 3 lifts a day and maybe trying to lift 4 times a week? Or do the 6 twice a week? However on the other hand how do you fit in the various rep ranges he likes adequately?
Well, I'm basing everything on the OH Press, and the necessity of rehabbing my deadlift slowly, so the weights I started with a few weeks ago are low but not arbitrary. The OH Press was, and probably still is, at my limit. The Squats are still a little low, but that's good because, since I've linked the deadlifts to the squats at a 5/4 ratio, it gives me extra weeks of training the deadlift at lower weights. This way I can continue to build confidence before I start hitting loads above 300lbs. I think it's also good to build the squats up slowly so I can really dial in the technique and make it absolutely automatic. The bench press still feels absurdly light at times, but that's also good because I've recently decided to hone my technique there too. If the load were closer to my maxes, it would be harder to focus on good form. Hopefully by this summer sometime, when my training maxes are close to 90% effort level again, the powerlifting bench set-up will be automatic.I think the fractional loading and linear progression will work fine as long as, like you are, wiling to start low enough. I'm a little too impatient and don't want to jump back down right now, so I left my progression open with a end of 8 weeks goal to hit. That may come on week 2, 5 or 8. But then I have the flexibility for some down or stable weeks if I am feeling out of it. Or I can have a good push week too. I think I prefer the full body thing to the split routine as well, mainly because you can push at lighter weights and still get the feel of a heavier workout. While still being able to complete the workout in a reasonable time.
The sets/reps thought was for the 4 lifts do the Dan John recommendation of the power of ten. The others were more from experience and the general strength recommendation for 5s and I can keep the weights lighter. Then higher rep 8s is mainly for the back stuff so I can speed through the workouts. Then its similar to what you are doing without the heavier higher reps. I might also gradually increase the weight to hit one heavy work set, and maybe do stage sets like that article?
So I have hit variation, multiple set/rep schemes. Am I missing anything?
Yah, I feel a little impatient once in a while. But for me the clincher was when I was adjusting my 2015 log to the new fractional loading concept. I saw that by simply adding two pounds a week to my squat, I would hit 320 by the end of the year, and 400 for the deadlift. Likewise, for the presses, by adding a pound a week to the OH Press, I would end up with pretty good loads by yearend. Of course, I may stall at some point along the way and have to decrease the rate of fractional loading, but keeping my eyes on the year-end prize helps me remain patient. And, conversely, if I feel like the loads become too easy, I can always increase the rate of loading.I'm a little too impatient and don't want to jump back down right now, so I left my progression open with a end of 8 weeks goal to hit. That may come on week 2, 5 or 8. But then I have the flexibility for some down or stable weeks if I am feeling out of it. Or I can have a good push week too.
Man, now I'm really feeling like busting out some singles this aft.
Man, now I'm really feeling like busting out some singles this aft.
Edit: Hey, one thing I'm not getting. It seemed like your plan for this cycle was going according to plan, but lately you've been expressing dissatisfaction. What exactly is it that's not working? Just curious.
Anyway, on Thursday the actual running didn't go that well. I had to stop a lot and walk. I don't know if it was the rain, eating a protein shake right before heading out, or just one of those days, but my legs didn't feel as good as they did on Sunday's run. But of course, I was glad I ran afterwards, and it felt good to have entered a new phase of running rehab. My left big toe met head felt just a little tender afterwards, but I didn't feel it at all while running, and so could run with a normal gait and landing.
No, that's what these threads are all about, sharing ideas but also experiences, right?I know that article made me want to try that idea out, but I think this leads into one of the issues I have been having.
The biggest thing right now is I am kind of missing that steady relatively easy lifting. With the split workout I am doing, its basically doing my training max +, which is probably hitting around 95% of my 1RM for one or two lifts per day. Which isn't necessarily bad but it is time consuming and a mental drain. Leading into my second problem.
I think my loads are just too high to hit 3-6 @ 90% worksets. Charles Staley's concept of lifting one top workset is sounding like a good plan right now. Especially trying to weave it together with my other nonsense going on. And you are right I should be focusing on Leadville, and the other races coming up.
Even though the 6 lifts may be more complicated written down the simplicity of just waking up and getting into the gym will help getting through the whole workout fast and consistently. While working all the lifts or patterns with more regularity instead of once a week. Plus I have a little more flexibility with loads which I think will come in handy especially after a race.
My main concern with constant progression like yours is kind of similar to what I expressed above, once I get to a certain weight in a lift it becomes a mental f$*!. Then I don't hit my reps and its becomes a disappointment. I think that's why easy strength and the RPE method fit well with my personality. I can just adjust daily on load and still think I got a solid workout in, not great but that's ok. Having a very specific plan for every day doesn't give me that flexibility and take some of the fun out of it.
Sorry about the sob story ha!
Edit2@BA: If you don't mind sharing, how fast was your second fastest mile? Just curious. Hey also, why did you stop reporting runs?
Yah, I was a little bummed that it was a little tender after yesterday's run, which puts it back in the category of 'manageable' instead of 'healed,' but it's definitely getting better. I'm pretty sure I'm going to try a six-mile run/walk tomorrow. I can't hardly wait until I can run continuously again. It's been hard to be this patient, but I think my rehab approach has been the correct one. And now I'm super paranoid about stubbing my toes again.Glad to hear your foot is healing. I seem to have a 70/30 split between good and sucks ass running days. Although once I get past the 6 mile point they mostly all become good. Maybe you need to start doing ultras?
That's pretty respectable. I think my best in 2013 was 8mm, and I didn't keep running. I would be super happy if I could consistently run that pace over 5-6 miles. I don't think I'll ever touch 6mm unless I'm sprinting!i don't know the "official" time because it involves remembering the beginning and end times on my GPS while running between marks painted onto the path (presumably by the local running club). i think it was about 5:54 or something. a year ago, i went running with my kid on a bike and when i looked down after the first 1/4 mile, i realized it was really fast and decided to go for it and did a 5:45 or so. i wasn't sure if that was a malfunctioning "device" or not, but apparently, it might have been legit. those are the only two under 6 i've ever done knowingly. i think my best for high school PE class was like 6:12 or something. of course, in high school, we would stop after finishing and now i keep on running...
i'm not exactly sure why i haven't been recording runs. in part, it is because i'm usually running 5 or 6 days a week for a total of 30 or 40 miles and i want to maintain humility and not bore you guys to tears. on the other hand, if y'all think it would be helpful, i suppose i could. it's terribly unstructured because i still don't really consider myself to be a "runner" and feel like i'm still at the phase where the trick to getting better is to just go out and zoom around a lot.
But you're right in that with my highly specific plan, there will be a certain amount of boredom. Counteracting this, however, is the fact that I'm already hitting weekly PRs in my OH Press, and will be hitting regular PRs in my other lifts by mid or late summer. So that's pretty motivating for me. The path to a 400 deadlift doesn't seem so long now, because there's lots of pit stops and scenic outlooks along the way. After I hit my old PR of 355 for example, I'm steadily working towards 360, then 370 and so on, or even just 356.
Also, if it starts to get boring, I'll start to work in variation or substitution lifts, like we've been discussing this week. I'll still be working the same sets of muscles involved in each of the six lifts, but it will keep things fresh and may also benefit longterm progress by mixing up the angles or grips and so on a little bit.
Finally, viewing the routine as more of a template, you could, for example, easily make Friday into a stage workout as described in that T-Nation article, or make the 8RM day even more of a dynamic effort day by decreasing the loads.
So I dunno, for me at least, it does seem like a "steady, relatively easy lifting" approach. You're the one who got me thinking along these lines originally. But it took me a while to understand the concept, and how it could be more effective than a more intensive approach over the long haul. Of course, the experiment is still young, but it's feeling pretty good so far.