Dogs are barefoot, too! And they're better runners than any of us.

[BFwillie_g]

Do dogs need to eat during long runs? And if they do, then what should they be given? And how much? And at what intervals? With or without water?

I've been wondering about these things and haven't been able to find any conclusive statements. By 'long run' I mean above three and up to eight hours, at a pace the dog would consider very slow. I'd appreciate any input and/or tips on forums/articles where I could get some useful info.

For the record, I'm asking specifically about my small (15lb) Spaniel/Dachshund mix. She's a tremendous runner (see my blog) and has gone three and half hours with me like it was nothing. On that kind of run, I do bring some snacks along for her, but I've been told that dogs shouldn't do any activities with food in the stomach because it can cause the stomach to flop around and can become dangerous.

But then someone else told me that that only applies to larger breeds... so now I'm a little insecure on the matter.

Also, the reason I'm getting interested now is because I'm thinking about taking her for the entire 45m run at the Ultra I'm signed up for in May. Last year, she only accompanied me for the final 20km or so, and it was like a sprint for her.

 

[DNEchris]

It'd probably be a gentle LSD

It'd probably be a gentle LSD run for her. If she gets hungry she'd probably be able to forage anyway!

 

[migangelo]

the only thing your dog will

the only thing your dog will need is water. dogs only need to eat once a day. maybe twice in winter if their meal wasn't big enough. if your dog doesn't eat one day it won't kill them. just the other day i ran my dog two hours and he didn't eat when we got home. the next day we did an hour and a half at a much slower pace. when he doesn't eat the day prior to a run he has so much energy that i can't contain him. i'm lucky enough he follows me off leash and in the winter there are plenty of streams on the trail so i don't have to carry water.



i'm a little jealous. my dog is 12 lbs but i don't think he will get up to three hours and if he does it will likely be the limit. being a lhasa apso they were designed to not be able to run more than 15 miles. that way if they got out they couldn't get to far.

 

[BFwillie_g]

Thanks, that sounds about

Thanks, that sounds about right - but what if my dog WANTS to eat along the way? I'm thinking now it may be healthier for her if I remain strict and don't give her anything. I'm really just concerned about her health, not her energy levels (which I'd trade your left nut to have half of).

I have to say, she's usually famished when we get back from a run and wolfs down whatever lands in her bowl.

 

[migangelo]

your not giving away my nuts!

your not giving away my nuts! are you nuts? don't be such a nutter.



my dog passes out after such a long run. when he wakes up he eats. the only reason he didn't eat the other day was because i gave him liver and he's a little put off by offal. he did eat it the next day and then some.



did you watch the iditarod race on discovery a few years ago? they covered it as a show. they didn't feed their dogs until they stopped for a few hours. dogs are used to working and then eating. they will have more energy that way. otherwise after eating the preferred exercise is curling up and sleeping.

 

[palouserider]

I wanted to give my input

I wanted to give my input here even though I can't say that I've run with my dogs for 6-8 hours I have worked extensively with many dogs to condition them. There is a difference in what is possible and what is kind. Dogs are acting on instinct and they have a very strong pack instinct. If there pack leader, that is you, goes away most dogs will do anything to follow, even at the chance of being completely exhausted and close to collapsing. Sled dog races are not a good example for the most part as the dogs are in harness and don't have a choice to stop when they are exhausted. Sometimes they don't survive. Every sled dog owner is different of course but I have seen many examples of people who are much more interested in winning races than in the well-being of their animals.

Taking a smaller dachshund cross on a 45 mile ultra is in my opinion risking the dogs well-being and probably life because they can not say they want to stop and have someone pick them up. They also don't know ahead of time how long the run will be and will exhaust themselves much too early. Domestic dogs are not the same as wolves or coyotes that have been naturally selected for endurance running for endless generations. They can be conditioned just like human athletes, but only within limits. I have pointers, a breed that are particularly suited for endurance running and still don't usually take them for more than 10 miles while their regular workouts are about half of that. If they went 10 miles every day I might be able to take them for 20 on occasion. Many breeds, especially short-nosed breeds, may not even be able to run a mile or two without careful conditioning.

Dogs/wolves in the wild may on occasion cover up to 50 miles a day, but mostly on softer ground, and their feet would have been conditioned gradually to this. Pack members typically wait for weaker pack members and don't leave them behind alone.

If dogs run on roads, asphalt or gravel, their pads can wear through surprisingly quickly, sometimes after only a few miles, so try to monitor this on your training runs with your dog. Light skinned dogs are more sensitive then dark-skinned dogs.

As far as feeding and watering: Keep in mind that most modern dogs are fed a very unnatural diet: dry or canned dog food, highly processed compared to their natural diet. Their digestive system does not function the same as that of dogs that are fed a diet that mostly consists of raw meat and bones. This includes not being able to go without food as long. They may survive, but they are definitely not comfortable. Water depends on the temperature. In summer dogs may have to drink just as often as people and in some cases creeks are not available or clean enough during the summer. Feeding an unnatural food also means that a dog's digestive tract may not be as tolerant of diseases as e-coli, salmonella or giardia as they would be if fed a natural diet.

Hope this is helpful, let me know if there are more questions.

 

[BFwillie_g]

Hi - I appreciate the

Hi - I appreciate the comments, palouse, but you don't know my dog - she pulls me and is very headstrong. She loves to run and I'm not worried at all about taking her out on what would just be a day's stroll from her perspective. The run also includes long walking phases and visits to the aid stations where we shoot the breeze with workers. And if she wants to stop, she'll stop. A Jack Russel finished the same race last year and was looking for more things to do in the finish area.

Don't underestimate 'the little Dachshund', either. There's one on a horse ranch nearby who goes out on day-long rides, running right along with the horses and even yapping and playing when they need a rest. Besides, mine is about 60% Brittany, rescued from the mean streets of Athens.

Also, you're making good general statements regarding food but you didn't ask what my Leni eats

 

[Barefootandagel]

What does leni eat..LOL?For

What does leni eat..LOL?

For the record I have two dogs and I am a horrible owner

 

[BFwillie_g]

Barefootandagel wrote:What

What does leni eat..LOL? For the record I have two dogs and I am a horrible owner

lol (Agel?) Leni gets a mix of things. I try to feed her according to 'BARF' ideas, but it became a hassle to do exclusively after a while. So now she does get canned food sometimes but about half of her food is fresh, unprocessed animal bits. The main thing is 'pansen', not sure what that it in English but it's basically one of the stomachs from a cow - ground up, with the contents still intact - totally disgusting, but she goes bonkers for it. A food expert said once, the proper way to prepare pansen is to put a sealed bucket full of it out in the sun and when the lid of the bucket blows off on its own, the food is ready to be eaten

I buy it frozen from a specialty shop. And then she gets chicken and turkey necks, also fresh/frozen, with bone, which she wolfs down. She also gets stuff from the butcher - liver, chicken, oxtail, etc - just for variety's sake. But she's pretty picky and leaves 'new' stuff lying there more often than not.

The canned food we buy is at least 100% meat, no filler except some veggies or whatnot according to the flavor. But as was mentioned, it's obviously processed. Still, I think we've struck a pretty good compromise.

I'm thinking about getting a separate little freezer to keep a larger supply of frozen food for her. That's the only reason she doesn't get it more often - We have to go out and buy new all the time, we just don't have anywhere to store larger quantities of the stuff.

What makes you so horrible, by the way???

 

[palouserider]

Willie,sounds like you have

Willie,

sounds like you have a very fit little dog indeed.

I suspected this might be the case, the same about the food, but was thinking that other people were reading this whose dogs may not be ready to go quite that far and might not be able to handle things without much food or water. In the US most races are not even set up for people to take dogs. I guess if you can arrange for the dog to stop early if necessary during stops at aid stations that would make a big difference. As far as food, I would just keep portion sizes small. Bloat or gastric torsion is more likely to be a problem with larger breeds like greyhounds and there seems to be a genetic predisposition but there are many different breeds that get it and when given the choice dogs will rest after a meal.

In any case,didn't mean to imply you were not taking necessary precautions to keep your dog safe, just got worried that someone might get the wrong impression about the average pooches abilities.

They are too dear to my heart and are truly man's best friend.

 

[BFwillie_g]

palouserider wrote:Bloat or

Bloat or gastric torsion is more likely to be a problem with larger breeds

'Gastric Torsion', that's the syndrome I was worried about (in German it's a 'Magendrehung' = Stomach Twist).

So, so long as it isn't dangerous to do so, I guess I'll just continue to have little bits along with me to give her, as much as a reward for her being such a great dog as anything else

Here we are finishing the same ultra run last year:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZTQNuKTAzE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPzrOuUZmp0

Listen for the people laughing and cheering for us, lol.

 

[migangelo]

i do feed my dog nothing but

i do feed my dog nothing but raw meat and bones. i'm quite positive he wouldn't handle the running that he does on a "dog food" diet. he can handle drinking from streams and has never been sick from it. i do watch out for him and make sure he's always following me. he does best off leash as he can cruise at his pace. sniffing when he wants, marking, and chasing me when it suits him.



everytime we've gone on a run with new people they look at me like i'm crazy for bringing him. little do they know he will likely out run them. he has the best time going fast and it feels weird to me when he's not with me.



i don't give him any treats. i just feed him once a day. sometimes twice depending on what he ate, what we did, and how much he bugs me to feed him.



i saw a cartoon drawing of a man looking at his dog and tells him "if you were smarter you could talk". the next caption the dog thinks "if you were smarter, i wouldn't have to".



dogs can talk to us, you just have to learn their language.

 

[NotSoDoomedRunner]

I am just getting my dog up

I am just getting my dog up in miles over 6, but plan on getting her as much as she seems happy doing. When we get to 10 I think I'll start bringing some snacks in case she wants them. She is 70 pounds though. But I think the same applies. I'm a small dude and I still need food. Maybe just less. But in the same intervals. I'm thinking something like peanutbutter on a rolled up peice of bread.

 

[palouserider]

migangelo wrote:dogs can

dogs can talk to us, you just have to learn their language.

That is so true, and if we claim to be the more intelligent species be better learn theirs before we expect them to learn ours, LOL.

 

[BFwillie_g]

NotSoDoomedRunner wrote: I'm

I'm thinking something like peanutbutter on a rolled up peice of bread.

well, one thing I know for certain: dogs don't need carbohydrates. Bread??? How about some bits of fresh liver? Srsly, dude, you gotta re-think your dog's nutrition.

In my limited experience, bigger dogs like that don't get along as well with longer distances. I mean, I know a few people who run with dogs and have spoken to runners at races and that seems to be the way of things.

Side note: I've met TWO people who actually went out of their way to get huskies, thinking that they're the ultimate running dogs, only to be totally disappointed. They can be totally stubborn and give up quickly (my thinking is that they're bred to pull in packs, in the tundra and without those conditions, they just don't see any logic in it. But who knows...).

Also - when we run at home, I have Leni off the leash now and she pretty much stays by me, and does the same stuff: running off in every possible direction, digging, sniffing, marking, racing ahead, falling behind... she runs twice the distance I do, and twice as fast. But that'd be ridiculous at races and I'm sure we'd get in trouble.

Btw, Germany (and maybe Europe in general?) is MUCH more dog-friendly than the US, by far. We can take Leni pretty much everywhere with us except grocery stores, butcher shops and bakeries. She goes to restaurants with us all the time... And many places that have a no-dogs rule have a 'hitching post' outside where you can tie your dog on, often with water and food bowls.

 

[BFwillie_g]

palouserider wrote:migangelo

dogs can talk to us, you just have to learn their language.

That is so true, and if we claim to be the more intelligent species be better learn theirs before we expect them to learn ours, LOL.

we learned that in dog school - we 'owners' were the ones getting schooled; the dogs already know everything. That was the first thing we were told on day one and it was true!

 

[migangelo]

ya my dog tells me a lot. my

ya my dog tells me a lot. my mom's dog will even tattle on mine and the cat.



i don't believe in giving dogs treats. they don't need them. you can get them to do what you want with praise and training. they surely don't need it on a run. they can go for a while without food. fasting is good not only for them, but us as well. my movements always get better after doing some fasting. i just found i lost too much muscle doing it so i stopped.



oh, i don't remember who it was who felt they are a horrible owner. do more then. feeling guilty won't help you or your dog. do what you can and be satisfied knowing it's the best you can do. i know i feel guilty leaving mine at home while i go out so i run him as much as i can and feed him as well as i can afford. feeling guilty will only make you weak in your dog's eyes and no one wants a weak leader.

 

[NotSoDoomedRunner]

BFwillie_g

I'm thinking something like peanutbutter on a rolled up peice of bread.

well, one thing I know for certain: dogs don't need carbohydrates. Bread??? How about some bits of fresh liver? Srsly, dude, you gotta re-think your dog's nutrition.

Well the peanutbutter is the main nutrition, but her favorite food by far is a slice of bread. This dog goes insane for bread. She is pretty fit for a bigger dog too. She eats all natural food and has stuff for big dogs to keep their joints healthy. So I don't think some bread on her run is a bad thing.

 

[BFwillie_g]

NotSoDoomedRunner wrote:So I

So I don't think some bread on her run is a bad thing.

Oh, I see what you mean now. I think, when I read your post, my thoughts were something like you were giving your dog carbs for energy, which really makes no sense. Sorry about getting so pedantic about it!

 

[jldeleon]

You guys are Dog Whisperers! 

You guys are Dog Whisperers! Or maybe your dogs are Human Whisperers - lol.