barefoot/huarache

[NickW]

I just meant that the recent trend towards running with sandals seems to have been strongly influenced by McDougall's report of this practice among a previously 'hidden tribe.' At least I don't remember hearing about it before, but then again, I didn't really participate in the wider, online running world until fairly recently. For all I know, recreational runners may have already been running in sandals for years and years.

I didn't know sandals were an option prior to this... I guess I knew you could run to the mail box or what have you, but I had always done this in uncomfortable flip flops which are hard to run in. But also at that time I had never run barefoot either (except on the beach) and didn't know that bfr anywhere else was even an option either...

 

[Barfuß Chelsea]

I didn't know sandals were an option prior to this... I guess I knew you could run to the mail box or what have you, but I had always done this in uncomfortable flip flops which are hard to run in. But also at that time I had never run barefoot either (except on the beach) and didn't know that bfr anywhere else was even an option either...

Yup, me neither. I have to say, I still much prefer barefoot barefoot for 99% of my runs, but huaraches are almost always what I carry as emergency shoes and I live in them from March to October! So simple, so lightweight...and they keep people in the grocery store from staring.

So Lee, just to be clear, you *have* read BtR, right?

 

[scedastic]

off topic, but i only read btr this july, after starting bf/minimal fall of 2011, so well into bf adventures.
when i read it, i certainly didn't see the bf promotion in the book, nor see how it created such a sensation of bf running.
it was more a true-ish inspired book about running ultras.
doesn't the author only recommend bf drills on grass or something?
i hated that i thought the book was so magnetic, otoh.
i didn't want to like that style, but it was hypnotic.
it did make me want to run ultras. for sure that. but bf? nah. didn't get the bf-ness of it.

the side note was how cool it was that people should run "naturally," yada yada, and better form means fewer injuries, yada yada.
and the tarahumara where awesome outfits and drink corn beer and eat tortillas and are hard core runners.

 

[Bare Lee]

Yup, me neither. I have to say, I still much prefer barefoot barefoot for 99% of my runs, but huaraches are almost always what I carry as emergency shoes and I live in them from March to October! So simple, so lightweight...and they keep people in the grocery store from staring.

So Lee, just to be clear, you *have* read BtR, right?

No, I haven't, but I kind feel like I already have. I know the basic story, that's for sure. I bought it and then gave it to my brother when he began to express interest in barefooting last year. The whole barefoot running explosion happened while I was away doing fieldwork in Africa (2004-2010). So I don't have a very good idea of what the BFR scene was like leading up to BtR's publication in 2009, but I do know that before I shipped off to do fieldwork, I felt fairly isolated as a lifestyle barefooter. That seems to be changing, and I thank BtR's influence for that. And knowing that there are others out there like me who prefer bare feet has helped me become a bit more committed to, yet not yet militant about, barefooting. My first exposure to the 'movement' came when I got home in 2010 and a month later my other brother sent me Daniel Lieberman's YouTube video "Barefoot Professor" or something, saying something like hey, you've always liked being barefooted, check this video out about another barefoot anthropologist. I haven't read any barefoot books actually, but I read Jason's primer when I began running barefoot again shortly after I saw the Lieberman video. I think Jason says pretty much all you really need to know, especially if you already have experience with running and/or barefooting. I got Ken Bob's book too, but I haven't read it. I read a lot of technical and theoretical books so when I want to read for leisure I tend to surf the net instead of picking up another book.

Like you, when I'm not barefoot, or can't be barefoot, I prefer sandals. I used to just buy cheap rubber or plastic ones, or locally made leather ones when I'm abroad, but lately it's hard to find ones that are zero-drop at places like Target, so I bought the higher-end Lunas, which are quite nice, but what I'd really like is something with a strap that goes over the front of the foot and doesn't have a heel strap, so I can slip them on quicker, without bending down, which can be a slight hassle when I'm getting the kids out of the car to go into a store or something. There aren't any technical trails around here, and the harshest surfaces are mild chipseal, so there's really no need to run in sandals. In the winter I use the Moc3s when it's too cold to run barefoot, although even then I still use my sandals most of the time for just getting in and out the car. If I have to be outside longer when it's cold, I like the RunAmocs, which have a 6mm sole, which is plenty, even for sledding with the kids.

 

[Barfuß Chelsea]

At the risk of hijacking this thread completely (sorry James!!), I'd say BtR is a must-read for runners of all shapes, sizes, and speeds, shod or barefoot. Heck, even if you're not a runner and you just like a good story, it's great! And then go read Scott Jurek's "Eat and Run." Scedastic, if you thinking now that the ultra scene is drawing you in, you'll have no choice but to succumb after that.

Ok, to get back on topic and answer the actual question of this thread...My experience has been that if I have anything on my feet at all I have to doubly concentrate on landing softly. Same deal when I run on grass, too, though. Thing is, knowing what good form feels like is probably more important in the long run than whether or not you've got a few mm of whatever between you and the ground. Even when I'm out barefoot, when I start getting tired, my form starts to deteriorate. Sometimes I start to notice twinges in my ankles or knees. Usually I can get it to go away pretty quickly if I just refocus for a few minutes: bend the knees, LIFT the feet before they hit the ground...all that good stuff. I'd imagine that if you get really good at that stuff barefoot (consciously or subconsciously), eventually you can't help but apply the same principles in shoes...like the Africans or Tarahumara.

 

[scedastic]

At the risk of hijacking this thread completely (sorry James!!), I'd say BtR is a must-read for runners of all shapes, sizes, and speeds, shod or barefoot. Heck, even if you're not a runner and you just like a good story, it's great! And then go read Scott Jurek's "Eat and Run." Scedastic, if you thinking now that the ultra scene is drawing you in, you'll have no choice but to succumb after that.
.

Read Jurek's book this summer shortly after BtR. It's certainly less bombastic, more humble and real feeling. Jurek's a bit on the freaky-monk like yet competitive hippie-ish granola crunching side. Fascinating person.
I love his recipes and little words of inspiration at the end of each segment. I still repeat some of the things he says there to myself.

He doesn't quite inspire me to run ultras, though, because he is in such a different category as an athlete, it doesn't give me that "oh, anyone can do it" feeling, and maybe for good reason.

 

[Bare Lee]

Seriously, try the Moc3s. With a 2mm sole you'll barely notice they're there.

As for BtR, I'll probably take up Sced Astic's rec and read Jurek's book first if I ever read a running book for inspiration, or one of those classics like Lore of the Run or something. I just don't like that bombastic style of writing, it puts me into immediate skim mode, looking for the meat amongst the fatty verbiage. I'm just not that kind of reader. It's the reason I can't read most sports journalism because it's all about entertaining.

 

[NickW]

Seriously, try the Moc3s. With a 2mm sole you'll barely notice they're there.

As for BtR, I'll probably take up Sced Astic's rec and read Jurek's book first if I ever read a running book for inspiration, or one of those classics like Lore of the Run or something. I just don't like that bombastic style of writing, it puts me into immediate skim mode, looking for the meat amongst the fatty verbiage. I'm just not that kind of reader. It's the reason I can't read most sports journalism because it's all about entertaining.

You're up awfully early Lee. With the Moc3s, how do you get past how ugly they are? Spending that much money on ugly shoes is really difficult for me. So you like to read dry analytical writing versus the way McDougall writes. I got sucked into btr and finished it in a day or two if I remember correctly. Prior to that point in time I had never finished reading a running book because most I'd tried to read bored me to tears. I've been working probably close to a year on reading Dean Karnazes 50/50 book, but it is so boring I get 10 pages a month in or so is all...

 

[Bare Lee]

You're up awfully early Lee. With the Moc3s, how do you get past how ugly they are? Spending that much money on ugly shoes is really difficult for me. So you like to read dry analytical writing versus the way McDougall writes. I got sucked into btr and finished it in a day or two if I remember correctly. Prior to that point in time I had never finished reading a running book because most I'd tried to read bored me to tears. I've been working probably close to a year on reading Dean Karnazes 50/50 book, but it is so boring I get 10 pages a month in or so is all...

Well, you're two time zones away so you're up even earlier! I usually wake up around 4am though, and go to sleep around 10pm.

I only use the Moc3s when I'm running in the winter, so aesthetics don't really enter into the equation. But in any case, my sense of fashion is pretty bad. I usually let my wife dress me when it counts, although I still get to exercise full veto power. One person asked if the Moc3s are ballet shoes.

And yeah, I've been reading dry technical stuff for so long I guess I've gotten used to it, and have little patience for fluff. I've also gotten pretty good at skimming for essentials. Different strokes for different folks I guess. When I want entertainment I drink beer, sometimes enhanced, with friends and family and make wise cracks. Or I watch football. Sometimes I even get to watch a movie. I watched Revolver recently over at my brother's home theater. That was very entertaining, like a dream you don't want to end. But mostly entertainment these days is hanging out with the wife and kids. Nothing better than that at the end of the day.

 

[NickW]

Well, you're two time zones away so you're up even earlier! I usually wake up around 4am though, and go to sleep around 10pm.

I only use the Moc3s when I'm running in the winter, so aesthetics don't really enter into the equation. But in any case, my sense of fashion is pretty bad. I usually let my wife dress me when it counts, although I still get to exercise full veto power. One person asked if the Moc3s are ballet shoes.

And yeah, I've been reading dry technical stuff for so long I guess I've gotten used to it, and have little patience for fluff. I've also gotten pretty good at skimming for essentials. Different strokes for different folks I guess. When I want entertainment I drink beer, sometimes enhanced, with friends and family and make wise cracks. Or I watch football. Sometimes I even get to watch a movie. I watched Revolver recently over at my brother's home theater. That was very entertaining, like a dream you don't want to end. But mostly entertainment these days is hanging out with the wife and kids. Nothing better than that at the end of the day.

Well, I've been studying so much for this math class the last few days that now my brain doesn't want to shut off so it just keeps trying to solve complex problems in my sleep. Needless to say after 3 hours of terrible sleep I am now up. I am ready to get back to the working world, and away from the world of academia, it's not really my thing. It also doesn't help that we just got a new bed and while it is the same size, queen, it is thinner than our last one so all our sheets are extremely wide and don't fit and now I get all tangled up in them. My wife is going to get new sheets tonight because even she is not sleeping well because of them.

 

[scedastic]

You're up awfully early Lee. With the Moc3s, how do you get past how ugly they are?.

I don't know which ones I have, but mine may even be worse than the moc3s; I have the suede foot-bag lookin' ones. Wide as trucks. Comfortable and warm as all get out down to blizzard conditions.
UGLY as sin. Really homely. No getting around it. Not even menacing enough to be hideous. Just pitifully unattractive.

I've learned to love them and embrace them like whatshername did with quasimodo (sp?)
Or, I think of them as a shoe only a mother could love.

 

[Bare Lee]

I don't know which ones I have, but mine may even be worse than the moc3s; I have the suede foot-bag lookin' ones. Wide as trucks. Comfortable and warm as all get out down to blizzard conditions.
UGLY as sin. Really homely. No getting around it. Not even menacing enough to be hideous. Just pitifully unattractive.

I've learned to love them and embrace them like whatshername did with quasimodo (sp?)
Or, I think of them as a shoe only a mother could love.

I think those are the RunAmocs, no? I got them too, and used them throughout the winter, even for sledding. Extremely comfortable. I then made the mistake of getting a pair for each of my kids. My daughter refuses to wear her pink ones, but my toddler son wears his inside at day care, mostly because he's too young to have developed a sense of fashion. He can't wear them outside though, because he slips on the plastic playground stuff. I kind of like the Middle Earth look of mine, but I'm a dork who's never been accused of being stylish.

 

[NickW]

I think those are the RunAmocs, no? I got them too, and used them throughout the winter, even for sledding. Extremely comfortable. I then made the mistake of getting a pair for each of my kids. My daughter refuses to wear her pink ones, but my toddler son wears his inside at day care, mostly because he's too young to have developed a sense of fashion. He can't wear them outside though, because he slips on the plastic playground stuff. I kind of like the Middle Earth look of mine, but I'm a dork who's never been accused of being stylish.

Are those the bowling shoe looking ones? (RunAmocs)

I'm kind of a dork myself. My wife gets after me all the time because I apparently wear things that don't match... I guess I'm male, she should be happy I have a shirt and pants or shorts on.

 

[Bare Lee]

Here are the RunAmocs, chocolate suede:

And here are the MOc3s:

http://www.softstarshoes.com/running-moccasins/moc3-runamoc.html

 

[NickW]

It's the Dash that looks like a bowling shoe. I just had to look them up. Still looking at all the others, their sizing really intrigues me, not to mention the option for a 2mm road sole.

 

[NickW]

And here are the MOc3s:

http://www.softstarshoes.com/running-moccasins/moc3-runamoc.html

Ok, I just watched their video and looked at these and I just may have been talked into purchasing these. That 2mm sole is huge in swaying me, despite the ugly ugly ugly looks and the higher price.

 

[Bare Lee]

Ok, I just watched their video and looked at these and I just may have been talked into purchasing these. That 2mm sole is huge in swaying me, despite the ugly ugly ugly looks and the higher price.

I don't think you'll be disappointed. Other minimal shoes will feel like clunky traditional running shoes in comparison. It's more of a rubberized slipper than a shoe. Plus it's always good to support a small company. I'll be interested in hearing how you like them.

 

[NickW]

There's also this one I'm looking at. Still ugly, but with my funky wide feet this may be just the ticket if the other doesn't fit. http://www.softstarshoes.com/running-moccasins/original-runamoc-black-lite.html I'll call them once my birthday is here and gone and find out which would work better for me. I also really like supporting small local businesses, and while they are a couple hours away I still consider them localish. I really have no desire to support that OTHER local footwear company, you know, the one with the famous swoosh for a logo.... Waffles... Knight...

 

[Agnesd]

I find it very amusing that people who run around in their bare feet are worried about how shoes will look (me included). First of all, most of society looks at us funny already for running around barefooted. Second, I can't stand wearing any shoes that are actually fashionable or cute anymore, so what difference does it make what kind of non-fashionable ugly shoe I wear now? Quite a conundrum.

 

[NickW]

I find it very amusing that people who run around in their bare feet are worried about how shoes will look (me included). First of all, most of society looks at us funny already for running around barefooted. Second, I can't stand wearing any shoes that are actually fashionable or cute anymore, so what difference does it make what kind of non-fashionable ugly shoe I wear now? Quite a conundrum.

I have a shod wife... She cares what I wear, when she's around anyhow. She gets really upset when I wear my roman sandals as she calls them (huaraches with the traditional tying method) just out and about with her. She doesn't mind the ones I have that look like Bedrock sandals though because they look more normal and don't stand out.