Cadence Candor: "Look ma, no gears!"

My cadence seems to sit around 165-175 at any pace I consider "running" rather than shuffling or walking. Any time I try to up it I just go funky and everything falls apart.
Just curious, what's your fastest pace? I've found I'm around 164 at 10mm / 6.2 mk pace, but around 180 when I get down to around 7:30 mm / 4:40 mk pace, but I haven't checked for a while. I also feel funky if I consciously try to manipulate my cadence, although it can be helpful if I up it a bit when I'm fatigued, towards the end of a run, probably for the reasons stated by Magness in the article.
 
Just to keep on "pace", last week I ran plugged in to see where I was at. What I noticed was that my cadence and heart rate on every run that I did last week was almost identical. A cadence of 191 and a heart rate of 150 bpm. What was strange though that my pace from high to low was almost 1 minute per mile different. It went from 9 mm to 10 mm. The runs were all close to the same distance, only thing that I can think of that my body was dictating the speed by varying my stride depending on how it felt that day or morning (the slow run was my early morning run). Oh well, one of these days it will all make sense to me. :)
 
  • Like
Reactions: barefootandagile
My current cadence tends to be right around 192-198spm from 13mm pace down to 5mm pace. I inteligently practiced getting my body to move at a very constant rate off the ground in order to conserve internal energy and maximize external energy. I will admit that my cadence was more spreadout prior to thinking and practicing as specific as I have to date. Given the experience and knowledge of both past and present cadences I am very happy with what I do now, and certainly recommend and prefer it to other people. My experience and opinion is slightly different than that of Steve Magness. It is safe to say that he interprets the data of elite runners differently than I and as a result recommends and teaches a different style of running than I. Though I don't agree with his conclusions on what should be done I certainly like the fact that running technique is discussed :)

Dutchie, I think LEE is currently happy with what he does while running. Not much reason for debating ;)
 
  • Like
Reactions: NickW and Bare Lee
Just to keep on "pace", last week I ran plugged in to see where I was at. What I noticed was that my cadence and heart rate on every run that I did last week was almost identical. A cadence of 191 and a heart rate of 150 bpm. What was strange though that my pace from high to low was almost 1 minute per mile different. It went from 9 mm to 10 mm. The runs were all close to the same distance, only thing that I can think of that my body was dictating the speed by varying my stride depending on how it felt that day or morning (the slow run was my early morning run). Oh well, one of these days it will all make sense to me. :)
Not quite following you there Dutchie. Are you saying at 10mm pace your cadence is higher or lower than 9mm pace? And which one is 191? Just curious.
 
Just curious, what's your fastest pace? I've found I'm around 164 at 10mm / 6.2 mk pace, but around 180 when I get down to around 7:30 mm / 4:40 mk pace, but I haven't checked for a while. I also feel funky if I consciously try to manipulate my cadence, although it can be helpful if I up it a bit when I'm fatigued, towards the end of a run, probably for the reasons stated by Magness in the article.
My fastest pace is 4.30min/km but that would be downhill and for a short period of time. No way I could keep that pace up very long at all. That is when my cadence hits around the 175 and very occasionally might bump up to 180 on a good day.

My regular pace is around 5.20min/km and that is when my cadence sits around the 170 mark. My cadence drops when I go slower than that and my slowest running pace is around the 6min/km mark.

My problem seems to be that if I try to up my cadence to 180 I run out of puff very very quickly and end up not being able to run more than 1 or 2 km before requiring a rest break regardless of what my pace over that 1-2km is. If I keep my cadence at 170ish I can run seemingly for as long as I want.

I've also found that at a cadence of 170-175 my legs feel springy and light which is what many advocates of the 180 or higher cadence say it should feel like. When my cadence drops below 170 I definitely notice the light springy feel disappear. So to me that seems to suggest my cadence is about right for me.
 
Not quite following you there Dutchie. Are you saying at 10mm pace your cadence is higher or lower than 9mm pace? And which one is 191? Just curious.
My cadence did not vary, nor did my heart rate. My cadence for the week was within .4 for every run. My heart rate was within 1 beat from high to low, but the pace varied by 1 minute per mile. My runs felt okay, it just kind of left me dumbfounded that the pace could vary that much, and everything else stayed identical. I guess 30+ years of running tells my body this is your work load (effort) and you get what ever you can out of the effort being put out. I think that when I feel strong my stride increases but not my effort, and when I am not feeling it my stride decreases but the effort stays the same. I guess that is my comfort zone that I run in. If I was to put my speed or variation and some hills I would see a difference, but then again I am going into fall and winter mode for me. That is maintaining a milage base in the fall that lets me enter 10 k's whent the urge hits, and in winter I up the milage so I can go into spring half marathons within a month of the race. Spring and summer I try to vary the speed more than now.
 
My fastest pace is 4.30min/km but that would be downhill and for a short period of time. No way I could keep that pace up very long at all. That is when my cadence hits around the 175 and very occasionally might bump up to 180 on a good day.

My regular pace is around 5.20min/km and that is when my cadence sits around the 170 mark. My cadence drops when I go slower than that and my slowest running pace is around the 6min/km mark.

My problem seems to be that if I try to up my cadence to 180 I run out of puff very very quickly and end up not being able to run more than 1 or 2 km before requiring a rest break regardless of what my pace over that 1-2km is. If I keep my cadence at 170ish I can run seemingly for as long as I want.

I've also found that at a cadence of 170-175 my legs feel springy and light which is what many advocates of the 180 or higher cadence say it should feel like. When my cadence drops below 170 I definitely notice the light springy feel disappear. So to me that seems to suggest my cadence is about right for me.

Sounds like you are experiencing a quality of cadence issue. If you run at very slow pace with 180+ cadence what other elements about your form change? My experience and many others have felt cadence can be both high and efficient at slow paces. It is possible you could find that experience with time.
 
Dutch,

"""""" I think that when I feel strong my stride increases but not my effort, and when I am not feeling it my stride decreases but the effort stays the same."""""

Is your speed/pace also the same on these runs?
 
Dutch,

"""""" I think that when I feel strong my stride increases but not my effort, and when I am not feeling it my stride decreases but the effort stays the same."""""

Is your speed/pace also the same on these runs?
I agree with you on that point. When I am feeling it the cadence stays the same, but I have a faster pace. When I am not feeling it, the cadence is still the same but pace is slower. Effort feels the same on both days, by not feeling it I mean I can tell when running where my heart rate is at, that is what I base my effort on. I know when I get too high in my heart rate zones that I have limited time at that zone. I try to keep the effort at the point where I get through my runs without having to fall down when I get finished. :)
 
  • Like
Reactions: NickW and Bare Lee
Anyone use single leg bounding to lengthen your stride out behind? Looks like fun. Any other tricks to this?
I'm kind of afraid I'll hurt something with single leg stuff, but I have recently taken up the broad jump, at Nick's recommendation, and got an adjustable plyo box a bit ago. I also like doing bench hops. It's too soon to tell how much these recent additions to my routine are helping my running, especially since I've been laid up for the last 12 days with a knee tweak. I do think dead lifts, squats, and power cleans help with force application, which determines stride length, although those exercises aren't as running-specific as the jumps, right?
 
No not so much, I think the single leg stuff may have more carryover. I have been taking the stairs at work for the last month or so and I do see a definite improvement in my uphill running. Much more so than only squatting and deadlifting.

I would assume the power cleans, snatches and a real max jump broad jump would be good for training both the force application and lengthening but more so if you hit full extension.