This is an interesting topic....barefoot versus shod, what's worse?

Barefoot TJ

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I would love to have some of you respond to this lame post I received over at MN Talk, the other forum I take care of. Here's the link to the thread, so be sure to read it all. It's a fun one. http://www.mortonsneuromatalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=101 I will approve your account, then you can login to respond. Anyone got a good persistence hunting YouTube video you can share?:

This is an interesting topic....barefoot versus shod, what's worse?​
The scientific literature indicates the jury is still out on which causes more injuries. Here's a recent review:​
A Review of Mechanics and Injury Trends Among Various Running Styles​
LTC Donald L. Goss, SP​
Michael T. Gross, PhD​
There are tons of confounding factors...FFS, RFT, MFS, shoe type, age, sex, injury history, race, BFI, you name it. Until a couple more decades of research are done, neither team can claim their style ultimately is less injurious. Yes, certain forces are altered and somewhat reduced in certain ways as a FOREFOOT striker, regardless if in minimalist shoes or barefoot, but you increase risk of lacerations and other forces upon a barefoot.​
I am not an anthropologist, and don't have time to read up on this right now, but persistent claims sound absurd to me.​
1. Homo sapiens evolved to be an endurance runner. I'm going to have to call BS on that. What would have been the evolutionary pressure? Humans could not outrun any predator that comes to mind (sabertooth, cougar, bear, you name it). Humans didn't often run from other human enemies...not with kids in tow for certain. Humans evolved in the savannas of Africa as I recall (perhaps theories have changed though), where they were gatherers until they devised clubs and projectile weapons. They would have utilized ambush and short sprints rather than try to catch an ungulate on foot and stab it. They would have initially eaten carrion and stole from other animals. Females would have nearly never run distances considering they would have been pregnant nearly every other year of their lives they ovulated. Can't run with 3 -6 kids in tow. Males were hunters that predominantly utilized ambush style means of hunting, or trapping. They may have followed the herds, but not running with kids. That was dozens of thousands of generations in the past....think about how many mutations occur in one generation. We migrated into Europe, Asia and elsewhere. Unless you are of African descent or a Native Tribe recently removed from evolutionary processes, you have been coddled like I have. My European ancestors did not run for thousands of years that I can fathom. Men run during war....in shoes though. The Romans wore sandals and conquered the world. I have no doubt my feet and the majority of Europeans look little like those of mankind 200,000 years ago. Many of us have high arches, long toes, longer second toes (mortons toe), bunions, and other anatomical deficiencies. We did not evolve to run on concrete or asphalt. Nor on pinecones or lava rock. We ran in the grasslands long ago, likely short distances, and predominantly men did this. Those in the jungle and other forested regions would not have run much...they've used projectiles for hunting and fishing.​
2. Women were built to run. Not really. Our wide pelvis evolved for bearing children and creates unfortunate angles in our femur position that is not ideal for running. We have added stress on our knees because of this. Some women are great runners, some women have narrow hips and less drastic issues with running. Mutations exist.​
3. Humans are built to run after 30. I don't think so. The average lifespan of a human as recently as 300 years ago was less than 35. Thanks to medicine and nutrition improvements, we are long over-living what our ancestors were capable of. Arthritis, tissue degradation, broken bones, atrophy....it's all normal, not due to wearing shoes.​
I agree wearing bad shoes will destroy you....too tight, high heels, bad arches, etc. But shoes are not the main problem, or everyone that ever ran in shoes would have MN and whatever other problems BFRs believe may be attributed to shoes.​
It will be interesting to see what future research reveals. Anyone else have any thoughts on this? any anthropologists out there?​
 
I would love to have some of you respond to this lame post I received over at MN Talk
Based on this post alone, she sounded like a troll, possibly a podiatrist with an agenda.

Her writings suggest that she has at least considered the barefoot vs. shod debate. She is clearly intelligent and has read about the topic and comes to her conclusions apparently due to faulty data.

After reading her story, it seems that she is just a disappointed and frustrated runner who keeps doing TMTS during her rehab and recovery.
http://www.mortonsneuromatalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=99

Why not lay off the feet completely, and take up something like swimming? During my 8 month hiatus from running, I've made some solid progress straightening my bunions and strengthening the abductors of the great toe to reduce the chance of them recurring. Previously, I've had the sensation of having a pinched nerve between my 4th and 5th metatarsals. I'm curious to find out if it's gone away, once I start running again, since my metatarsals have spread out a bit.

It's fairly clear from the anatomy of the foot that narrow last shoes which compress the metatarsals can increase the risk of pinching a nerve. It's a straightforward engineering problem. The question is how long does it take to reverse the process once the metatarsals are compressed. I suspect that it takes a long time, just as it takes months to years to develop flexibility in yoga , dance, martial arts, etc.

All this, of course, requires that she consider the premise that modern shoes may have contributed to her problem, and try some alternatives.
 
Homo sapiens evolved to be an endurance runner. I'm going to have to call BS on that. What would have been the evolutionary pressure?

Greater range, territory and ability to migrate.

A modestly trained runner can cover ground at least twice as fast as a walker. This really adds up when you do everything on foot.

It applies not just to hunting, but to scouting. If your tribe of nomads needs to migrate to better lands, you'll have a huge advantage if there are scouts who can run ahead and find water and food sources, the best terrain, and see which friendly or enemy tribes are ahead. American pioneers understood the importance of good scouting by ending up dead otherwise. Their scouts had horses, but paleolithic scouts did not.

The ability to run efficiently over distance is itself evidence of its benefit because animals that have no use for the ability, like cats, don't normally possess it. Orb weavers and jumping spiders can't, but wolf spiders can, because it's something that contributes to their survival.

Speaking of wolf spiders, it's BIG wolf spider season, if you're not too far north. Awesome fast spiders. Shine a flashlight in a field and you'll see their eyes reflecting back at you.
 
Why not lay off the feet completely, and take up something like swimming? During my 8 month hiatus from running, I've made some solid progress straightening my bunions and strengthening the abductors of the great toe to reduce the chance of them recurring. Previously, I've had the sensation of having a pinched nerve between my 4th and 5th metatarsals. I'm curious to find out if it's gone away, once I start running again, since my metatarsals have spread out a bit.

We recommend other types of exercise like swimming, some can do cycling as long as they don't use the wrong types of clip-on and cycling shoes, and as long as they don't have to get up high on the bike. Most of these people are runners, and you know us, we just want to run. They don't want to hear they can't run for awhile. But I keep trying to tell them that if they can make the necessary sacrifices now, then they may be able to run again. It requires work on their part though.

It's fairly clear from the anatomy of the foot that narrow last shoes which compress the metatarsals can increase the risk of pinching a nerve. It's a straightforward engineering problem. The question is how long does it take to reverse the process once the metatarsals are compressed. I suspect that it takes a long time, just as it takes months to years to develop flexibility in yoga , dance, martial arts, etc.

It can take years for a damaged nerve to heal, if it can heal. Sometimes nerves are just too damaged and will never function normally again. We just need to keep reiterating what we know to be true.
 
Speaking of wolf spiders, it's BIG wolf spider season, if you're not too far north. Awesome fast spiders. Shine a flashlight in a field and you'll see their eyes reflecting back at you.

I watched Animal Planet this weekend where this man and woman lived on 2,000 acres in the woods. They enjoyed the wildlife and listening to the frog choir every night. Then they noticed that the wildlife started dying out, the wolf spiders, the frogs, the lizards, etc. The finally figured out it was because of the brown widow spider that was killing everything and taking over. They found one here, then there, then a few here, then there, then thousands and thousands in the windows and door frames of their home! They explained that the black widow is definitely a deadly animal, but it has nothing on the brown widow. I love spiders, but I get the heebie jeebies just thinking about thousands of brown widows all around.
 
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Uh, oh hell no!
 
Interesting discussion. Threads that are open to "opinion" commenting are bound to contain bias and have no scientific merit. As mentioned numerous times here, individuals who have a vocation that subscribes to a certain paradigm want to justify their beliefs/assumptions (even if they are not grounded on academic, peer-reviewed studies). I noticed that many replies cited academic literature and scientific research supporting bare feet from an evolutionary standpoint (kudos!). Also, a great point made in a BRS forum was that "we should take barefootedness as the default nature has provided," and that "the burden of proof, remains with those advocating new practices (shod movement) relative to our development as a species."
 
Then they noticed that the wildlife started dying out, the wolf spiders, the frogs, the lizards, etc. The finally figured out it was because of the brown widow spider

they figured wrong, those creatures don't get et by brown widows. Some web-spinning spiders might get out-competed though. That would be a nuisance.
 
It was on Animal Planet. The brown widows didn't eat these animals, they bit them.
 
I love spiders. I am always saving them from my hubby stepping on them, and I teach my kids to be gentle around them...while looking for tell-tale signs. I also love snakes. I just don't like hundreds of them falling down on me when I am opening a door...like the people on the show.
 
I am not an anthropologist, and don't have time to read up on this right now,
It will be interesting to see what future research reveals. Anyone else have any thoughts on this? any anthropologists out there?​
Doesn't have time to read current research, but is interested in reading future research. I call BS on that one, to use her/his phrase. And a lot of chutzpah to willy-nilly refute an scientific argument one has no interest in understanding, simply by using folk/commonsensical reasoning. The whole point of science is to challenge our commonsense understanding of the world.
 
Doesn't have time to read current research, but is interested in reading future research. I call BS on that one, to use her/his phrase. And a lot of chutzpah to willy-nilly refute an scientific argument one has no interest in understanding, simply by using folk/commonsensical reasoning. The whole point of science is to challenge our commonsense understanding of the world.

Referring to which, or witch, the beeatch has left the building.
 
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