Concurrent Strength Training & Running 2015: Eight-Week Workout Cycle I

I am just trying to get the thinking out of the gym, have a plan, get in and out, and stay healthy.
Yep, same here. I still think some version of the Texas Method might work well for me, but then I wonder if just doing the same weight increments mindlessly every workout might work just as well. In any event, I'll give my bastardization of the Texas Method a chance, and go by the chart, it's pretty mindless as well, once the percentages have been worked out.
Ahh yeah that bike trip probably was enough slow endurance for a couple of lifetimes.
Fill me in on the high altitude stuff? See something like that would not be my cup of tea. However this is something I am adding to my bucket list http://www.adventurecycling.org/rou...ute-network/great-divide-mountain-bike-route/
As part of my travels, especially before I began traveling by bicycle, I would always seek out nice hikes. This included some multi-day hikes in the Andes and a three-week hike in the Himalaya doing the Annapurna circuit. I think the highest pass was around 18,000 feet. The deep blue sky is pretty amazing at those altitudes. The secret is to take baby steps and drink a lot of water, as a German friend taught me.

That Great Divide looks good. I cycled from Banff to Cody Wyoming a year and a half after I came back from traveling. Unfortunately I chose a pretty shitty route. It looked like tertiary roads on the map but they were filled with RVs and trucks. Cycling through Yellowstone was a lot of fun though.

concerning injury prevention, i think that if you implement your character-building patience plan, you will maximize your chances of being fine. i am pretty paranoid about getting hurt myself. it has something to do with my workout area having hardwood floors (but has the advantage of being heated) and not having someone to rescue me from under a twisted pile of iron and bones. so i have been trying to go slow. and since no-one is paying us based on our sporting prowess and, lord willing, there are a few more years left before the grave, i think you can afford to take your time. perhaps, you need to make sure that your "household fitness safety co-chairwoman" continues to dispense a small but meaningful amount of opprobrium to keep the process well regulated. as to a quantitative recommendation, i know nothing, but i'd say use the tiniest bumps you can, which is usually about 5 or 10 pounds. if it is going well, you can always bump it up again in the next session.

Ha, well put! And that was my intention. I felt a little something on the fourth rep, but for some reason I felt obliged to get in the fifth rep. Stupid.

I just saw the Chiropractor again. I woke up in discomfort at 12:30am, watched Wolf of Wall Street, and decided to move my appointment up from tomorrow to today. She said I was a little better, and that she expects a full recovery, but there's a chance that this will always be a weak spot, so I dunno. She did endorse my idea of using the squats as the limiter for the deadlift, but didn't commit to any kind of an exact ratio. I guess I'll start with 1:1 when I'm able to get back at it, and then eventually move to 4:5. She thought I should be good to go by next week some time, which seems fast. I was thinking of not deadlifting for at least a few weeks, maybe a month or two. In any case, I'll definitely be going slow, for all the reasons you mentioned.
concerning ultras, abide, go for it! :) i have designs on attempting a hundred this year, but i don't know if the logistics of temporal and monetary budgeting will work out or not. still, i can try to be supportive in whatever manner you think would be helpful. you'll have to tell me how since i can't read minds... and lee, i realize that ultras involve fatigued running at some point, but the idea is to go slow enough at first that the real fatigue doesn't set in until way late. :) oh wait, i guess i'll never win that way. but, at least i'll have fun and avoid most of the misery.
I once ran close to 12 miles without any fatigue, so I can see how someone in good running shape could go a lot farther without too much hardship, but I don't know if I've ever read anyone's account of an hundo here at BRS that didn't involve a fair amount of suffering. I know it's possible to go the distance, but I just don't enjoy running that way, and I hate the small range of motion involved in slower paces. And then there's the whole sleep deprivation angle. I cycled some long days once in a while, but never through the night. I think my longest in the saddle was 15-16 miles, with just a half hour lunch break, in Syria. I found myself on a beautiful, newly paved road and so made my intended leg by lunchtime, so I did the next day's intended leg too and got all the way to Damascus by 9-10pm. When I stopped all I could find open were pastry shops. The infusion of sugar made my legs shake for 30-45 minutes if I recall correctly.
 
long story for another time, but once i ended up in nebraska and needed to get back home. so i had my friend go to my apartment, cut my lock, and mail me my bike. then i set out with basically zero preparation for the 550 miles home. i don't remember exactly how long it took, but it involved a night at a monastery on the recommendation of the bike shop owner that fortuitously replaced all my spokes. it was convenient to break down in the same town as the only bike shop for like 75 miles around. of course, it was like the hottest week of the year (think mid-july) so i quickly switched to riding at night. eventually, i got sick of being alone and decided to get home. so i think i did the last 280 miles in two days. or really, two nights split by a chill-out session through the morning in a picnic shelter and a little tourism bit in the afternoon; leaving saturday evening and arriving monday morning. anyways, i guess my point is that long distance night riding/running can be fun if you just go really slow. right: take baby steps and drink plenty of water.
 
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long story for another time, but once i ended up in nebraska and needed to get back home. so i had my friend go to my apartment, cut my lock, and mail me my bike. then i set out with basically zero preparation for the 550 miles home. i don't remember exactly how long it took, but it involved a night at a monastery on the recommendation of the bike shop owner that fortuitously replaced all my spokes. it was convenient to break down in the same town as the only bike shop for like 75 miles around. of course, it was like the hottest week of the year (think mid-july) so i quickly switched to riding at night. eventually, i got sick of being alone and decided to get home. so i think i did the last 280 miles in two days. or really, two nights split by a chill-out session through the morning in a picnic shelter and a little tourism bit in the afternoon; leaving saturday evening and arriving monday morning. anyways, i guess my point is that long distance night riding/running can be fun if you just go really slow. right: take baby steps and drink plenty of water.
Riding at night in some of the places I traveled would be risky--bandits, crazy/drunk drivers, wild animals. Even during the day, places like southern Europe and the Middle East have some pretty crazy driving. But as you know, I do love the magic of early morning running, when everything is dim and quiet. Another nice memory was cycling above the Arctic Circle in Norway and Finland. After a while, my clock got off, and I cycled later and later into the evening, and woke up later and later in the morning. Eventually, I was pitching my tent after midnight, still in daylight. As I descended from the North Cape, I lost about 20 minutes of daylight each day once I got close to the Circle again, while I endured seemingly endless rain and rolling forest until I got to Helsinki.

Update: pain appears to be diminishing a bit. I can now stay on my feet 2-3 minutes instead of just one. Today I'm going to start taking Ibuprofen regularly so I can hopefully do some upper body stuff this afternoon without too much discomfort. Seeing the Chiro again on Monday.
 
Ha you guys are hardcore, the artic circle and Nebraska on a bike? What are the roads up there like Lee, forest servicey types of things?

Still can't figure out this plan very well. I'm wondering if the deadlift thing 3 times a week isn't a good idea? After my run yesterday, I was pretty worn out this morning and only got one set of 5 at 120kgs.
Should I potentially cut a lifting day out and go run hills?

btw got into the race so I have about 7 months of training to work with. Need to figure that out too.

Yeah Advil helps a lot, glad to hear its getting a little better.
 
I can now stay on my feet 2-3 minutes instead of just one. Today I'm going to start taking Ibuprofen regularly so I can hopefully do some upper body stuff this afternoon without too much discomfort.
Wow, you really are hurting. Hope you heal up quickly.

When I tweaked my back last year, I felt pretty good after taking some anti-inflammatories, so I went for a run. The next day my back was hurting again. I decided to toss the pills and wait until I was healed up enough to exercise without medication.

Your situation, of course, may be entirely different.
 
hello jetlag! i'm hoping to keep it under control, but with an 11 1/2 hour shift, we'll just have to see what happens. i arrived at my destination a little after sunrise (delayed flight plus my bag was fourth from last at the claim...) and managed to stay awake until about noon. then i slept and chilled out until about midnight and decided to do a little workout. hopefully, i'll be able to drag myself out of bed early enough to go for a run before breakfast and having to, you know, do actual work. purportedly, they have a "gym" of some sort here, but i haven't investigated it yet.

still, one of the wonderful things about barefoot running that is prolonging my "zeal of a convert" thing is that (plagiarizing someone else), every time you go for a run it is an adventure. i remember when i first started, upon return i could almost literally remember each step i took. so, based on previous experience, i expected that wintertime would thrash the readiness of my feet. apparently, not so this time. as part of my "stay awake for a big part of the day" plan, i went out running to absorb sunshine, get exercise, and burn some time. i started out with about 1/2 a mile on concrete roads, but quickly went exploring around. that meant 12 miles on dirt roads with a little gravel. let's say, i ended up slowing down a little bit. :) the combination of rising sun/temperature, lack of nice sleep, and limited water prior to leaving meant that i decided to bail out after 12.5 miles and walk it in for the last 0.5mi lest i do something more stupid than i already had. i was sure my feet would be thrashed and began preparing for the suffering of tomorrow (i.e., this, since it's 2:30am or something) morning. however, after waking up from my extended nap, my feet feel great and the soles seem perfectly fine. so, since i am a poor writer, i have to explicitly say: my point is that there is something about the unpredictability of barefoot running that i like.
 
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I feel for you BA about the jet lag, I do find it easier to stay with some routine when I am traveling for work vs. vacation though and it seems like you are doing it just fine.

Its been a long time since I have been running barefoot, I sometimes forget that this is a BF running forum. Although your post is definitely a motivator to do more. I remember the days when you have no idea what you are going to get when it comes to a run. This is actually one of the reason I have gone the other direction I think. But my morning runs to work will be very manageable barefoot so once it gets light or a little warmer I think I will start it up!
 
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Wow, you really are hurting. Hope you heal up quickly.

When I tweaked my back last year, I felt pretty good after taking some anti-inflammatories, so I went for a run. The next day my back was hurting again. I decided to toss the pills and wait until I was healed up enough to exercise without medication.

Your situation, of course, may be entirely different.
Yah, I'm pretty minimalist when it comes to medication. I held out five days, but minor tasks are accumulating, and I can't even make a quick stop at the mom & pop place without painkillers. Generally, I think it's bad to mask the pain, but in this case, it's not healing fast enough, and I need to perform a few basic tasks that require some time on the feet.

Today I'm going to try walking around the block I think, stopping to stretch obliquely every 30 steps or so. I think this is how I rehabbed when it first happened 15 years ago or so. Still can't stop being mad at myself. Should've stopped at the fourth rep when I felt a niggle. Dumb.

Anyway, no running or lower body lifting on painkillers. I won't try anything vigorous like that until I'm painfree, and even then, I'll be dipping back into the waters very gradually, just getting my toes wet at first.

I've revamped my cycle(s) plan even more, starting even lighter, and I've tied the deadlift weight to the squat weight at a ratio of 5:4, respectively, on the Excel chart.

It's funny, but this setback is making me more excited to get the running up to speed, and de-emphasize the lifting a bit. More and more, I'm concluding it was just lack of warm-up and not staying loose through running. The injury is very minor, but the pain is kinda bad because of the pressure on the nerve.

The Chiro said I should be better this week, but yesterday it was pretty bad taking the family around. It's not easy to know what the right approach is, but I guess I'll try stopping the straddle stretch, because it might put a little pressure on the injured area. I'll stick more to piri formis-type stretches.

Have a good trip BA, wherever you are.
Ha you guys are hardcore, the artic circle and Nebraska on a bike? What are the roads up there like Lee, forest servicey types of things?

Still can't figure out this plan very well. I'm wondering if the deadlift thing 3 times a week isn't a good idea? After my run yesterday, I was pretty worn out this morning and only got one set of 5 at 120kgs.
Should I potentially cut a lifting day out and go run hills?

btw got into the race so I have about 7 months of training to work with. Need to figure that out too.

Yeah Advil helps a lot, glad to hear its getting a little better.
I remember the roads being good, but the first few days to and from the Cape were gravel I think. Could be wrong. Worst road was in Guinea, a lot of mud, over three days the same three-truck convoy kept passing me, then having to stop when a pot hole got too big and muddy. Some were the size of a small car. They unloaded everything, then pushed one truck through, then that truck pulled the others through, then they reloaded. I walked my bike around on the inevitable foot path leading into the bush and back. We started laughing at each other each time I caught up to them.

I don't know what to say about deadlifts anymore. I think three times a week might still be OK, but at lighter weights 1-2 days, just one heavy? I'm also convinced I need to put the deadlifts last again, after all the other exercises have warmed every thing up, especially the squats, which put the same posterior chain muscles through a greater range of motion.

It's interesting, you've read people cautioning against deadlifting too much, and I've experienced some troubles, but I wonder if it's just bad preparation, and not necessarily inherent to the lift itself. It's such an easy lift, technically, and pretty safe, so perhaps it's easy to underestimate the amount of warm-up or preparation required to do the heaviest lift.

I think doing a little more HIIT or conditioning or just hills/sprints is probably a good idea, once a week. With the full-body workouts, twice a week is probably adequate, but I think three times a week is still ideal, with the right mix of volume/intensity/density. I'm going to try subbing power cleans for deadlifts once or twice a week at a fairly light weight as soon as I'm able to get back to it. Power Cleans are kind of a plyometric deadlift.

Running and lifting, we're still working on the optimal balance I guess, after several years of experimenting. I'll start out with the higher frequency, shorter distance approach to running as soon as I'm able, and build up the deadlifts and squats very gradually, to minimize interference and give everything an honest chance at integration.

Congratulations on making the hundo cut. Do you have a training plan? What's the terrain like? Rick Whitelaw appears to have mastered the 100, but he built up to it over several years.
 
It's the Leadville 100 so high elevation and mountains, although I think a lot of it is runnable. The long sustained hikes are gonna be the hard part as I don't have a lot of opportunity for that kind of training. I am putting together a blog to keep everything together and lay out the schedule. My wife is also doing a couple long races and it gets confusing trying to alternate runs and training.

Yeah I'm gonna pick Rick's brain a bit, I really wanted to do one of the races he is involved in but the timing doesn't work well with my schedule unfortunately. Maybe in 2016.

I think why a lot of people recommend only DL'ing once a week or once every other week is usually the affect on the CNS. Although as we discussed we are not really sure what this phenomenon is. I'll try to find some research? I suspect its individually different as well, I find a significantly higher amount of interference with the squats and endurance than deadlifts and endurance. And I rarely ever have a problem lifting heavy DL's twice a week.

However maybe 1 heavy day a week is best especially right now, so heavy Monday medium Friday? Thinking outloud now, maybe I should drop to twice a week for lifting and then do hill sprints on Wed, then on Thursday I will plan my run commute into work so I can always run on tired legs?
 
It's the Leadville 100 so high elevation and mountains, although I think a lot of it is runnable. The long sustained hikes are gonna be the hard part as I don't have a lot of opportunity for that kind of training. I am putting together a blog to keep everything together and lay out the schedule. My wife is also doing a couple long races and it gets confusing trying to alternate runs and training.

Yeah I'm gonna pick Rick's brain a bit, I really wanted to do one of the races he is involved in but the timing doesn't work well with my schedule unfortunately. Maybe in 2016.

I think why a lot of people recommend only DL'ing once a week or once every other week is usually the affect on the CNS. Although as we discussed we are not really sure what this phenomenon is. I'll try to find some research? I suspect its individually different as well, I find a significantly higher amount of interference with the squats and endurance than deadlifts and endurance. And I rarely ever have a problem lifting heavy DL's twice a week.

However maybe 1 heavy day a week is best especially right now, so heavy Monday medium Friday? Thinking outloud now, maybe I should drop to twice a week for lifting and then do hill sprints on Wed, then on Thursday I will plan my run commute into work so I can always run on tired legs?
Yah, squats definitely interfere more with running than deadlifts. I'm not sold on the lower frequency approach for deadlifts, but obviously, my thoughts on that subject don't carry a lot of weight, so to speak, at the moment.

Yesterday I walked a mile at a brisk pace, fairly painlessly, then was in pretty bad pain between 2 and 4 am. Going to see the Chiro again in a bit. This is getting really frustrating, and the ibuprofen provides minimal relief.

I think that's a pretty good plan for your training. Maybe also a 3-6 mile recovery run on the weekend?
 
That's a tough injury sorry your dealing with it. Hopefully the chiro can help although with those kind of injuries it seems like just time is needed? Or you can probably always get a cortisone shot.

Oh yeah I will include a long run or mtb ride on the weekend. I have been focusing on keeping my running at a slow pace almost exclusively, mainly so I get out of the habit of running to fast initially at races. I don't think I have run under a 11 minute mile in a while. We'll see how this works but my goal is to finish in the 30 hours not set any speed records.
 
That's a tough injury sorry your dealing with it. Hopefully the chiro can help although with those kind of injuries it seems like just time is needed? Or you can probably always get a cortisone shot.

Oh yeah I will include a long run or mtb ride on the weekend. I have been focusing on keeping my running at a slow pace almost exclusively, mainly so I get out of the habit of running to fast initially at races. I don't think I have run under a 11 minute mile in a while. We'll see how this works but my goal is to finish in the 30 hours not set any speed records.
Yah, the chiro is more of a consultant than a healer in this case, although she does some stuff that helps during the visits. It'll be mostly time, but I think I'll start moving into more of an active recovery phase now, walking 2-3 times a day and stretching afterwards, getting better about icing it, and probably stop the ibuprofen and just take some Tylenol before bed. Those were her recommendations. Not sure when to start lifting again. Seems like I could probably do bench press and pulldowns without stressing the injury. Probably won't be doing really heavy deadlifts for six months, but I could be doing some light ones within a month or so. A good excuse to get better at squats and try to pick up my running pace a bit winter and spring. It would be great if I could get down to 8mm pace by summer.

Good luck on the training. It will be interesting to follow the process.
 
I kind of had to hold it on an angle so the back didn't hit my butt, maybe my bar isn't big enough? I like to row with a closer grip personally. I think the wide stuff puts my shoulder at a disadvantage. Kind of like benching or pressing wide. I'll probably just stick with inverted rows with rings and DB rows, eventually incorporating the landmine somehow which I still haven't used yet. I did jam it onto the bottom of the squat rack. I have just been too lazy to unload my deadlift bar.

I wouldn't mind picking up one of those bars. I'd try to use it for bench and rows.
 
I kind of had to hold it on an angle so the back didn't hit my butt, maybe my bar isn't big enough? I like to row with a closer grip personally. I think the wide stuff puts my shoulder at a disadvantage. Kind of like benching or pressing wide. I'll probably just stick with inverted rows with rings and DB rows, eventually incorporating the landmine somehow which I still haven't used yet. I did jam it onto the bottom of the squat rack. I have just been too lazy to unload my deadlift bar.

I wouldn't mind picking up one of those bars. I'd try to use it for bench and rows.
Yah, of the various rows--cable rows, db rows, inverted rows, and barbell rows--the barbell rows are my least favorite. I'm hoping the t-grip bar makes them a little better, but if I hadn't already ordered it off an obsolete web page with a promo price, I don't think I would get it. It's something like $350 now, not sure about shipping. The company agreed to honor their old web page price of $200, so I'm still holding out. I'm also going to see how it works with the bench press, and it will eliminate the need for my EZbar, and maybe the trap bar too, so it will unclutter my workout space a bit.

I agree my grip width is the same for the deadlift, press, bentover row, and pulldown/-up. Just my bench and squat grip widths that vary really.
 
I still use my trap bar quite a bit so I would never give it up. I usually do a warmup set of DL's and farmers carries. I like having the variety of bars. I think after that I just need to pick up a new bag to do weighted pullups with and a swiss bar and then I'm done with equipment. I gained 10 pounds over vacations, I cant believe how much harder pull ups are now.
 
Wow that's a bit pricey, this is the one I was looking at:
http://www.helisports.com/barbells/Kroon-Multi-Grip-Bar-Black.html
140 euros or about $165 with the exchange rate. I was thinking I could use this in the landmine too and have various pull grips.
Yah, I looked at the multi-grip bars, but I need something that fits my narrow 32.5-inch (inner width) rack, in case I like doing the presses with it, and, also, the multi-grip bars would be harder to do rows with. The t-grip is like a normal barbell in the middle of the bar, so it'd be easier to bring right up to your chest. Basically, the t-grip is a reduced multi-grip bar with the grips exactly where I need them, that is, only the grips I'll probably use.
I still use my trap bar quite a bit so I would never give it up. I usually do a warmup set of DL's and farmers carries. I like having the variety of bars. I think after that I just need to pick up a new bag to do weighted pullups with and a swiss bar and then I'm done with equipment. I gained 10 pounds over vacations, I cant believe how much harder pull ups are now.

Ha, 10 pounds, now try 30-40! At least it's good to hear I'm not a complete pullup wuss.

With this lower back injury, weight loss might become a bigger priority too, in addition to running, while I'm waiting for it to get 100%. It's funny, without lifting the last few weeks, my appetite is way down, and I've lost a little. Maybe I've been overdoing the pre- and post-workout nutrition a bit? I think I'll try cutting out a meal and lifting hungry when I get back to it. I might sacrifice my rate of progress a bit, but I'll probably lose weight a lot faster . . .
 
Yeah same here about the activity levels, my appetite is crazy these days though. Especially after I get home from work and I just shove food in my face.

I've been skipping breakfast and that seems to be easy enough one to skip, well I drink a protein shake and then usually eat a snack at 9 or so. But 30 pounds to lose by August is a big task hopefully I can do it. I am pretty stable on the one beer a night, thinking about cutting that back to one every other day or something? Candy is another vice...

Next time I am up in the area I am going to try out that bar. Your right grip placement is huge but that one will fit in my rack so I can bench and press fine.
 
I've been skipping breakfast and that seems to be easy enough one to skip, well I drink a protein shake and then usually eat a snack at 9 or so. But 30 pounds to lose by August is a big task hopefully I can do it. I am pretty stable on the one beer a night, thinking about cutting that back to one every other day or something? Candy is another vice...
I'm big on eating a lot of protein first thing, mixed nuts and some dried fruit, then more protein midmorning, then mostly fruits and veggies at noon, and then protein and veggies for dinner. Seems like the meatheads like this approach as well.

http://www.t-nation.com/diet-fat-loss/fat-loss-high-protein-breakfast

What I'm thinking of cutting out is the pre-workout infusion, so that I'm lifting on close to an empty stomach. I'll lose some intensity, but that could be the difference of a pound or two a week I think. If I can start running first thing in the morning in a fasted state, I think that will help as well.

Anyway, 30 pounds by August should be doable. That's just a pound or so a week. I once lost 25 pounds in five weeks eating half-rations. Kinda sucked, but after a while you get used to it.
 

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