Running differences shod vs barefoot

NickW

Guest
#1
So as most of you know, I've been running in shoes(according to running stores these are minimalist shoes, but to us on the bf side they are built up shoes) the last couple weeks while combating PF. I've noticed a couple things that I like about being shod or being barefoot. First, I noticed I have more joy being barefoot-barefoot-s-t-g vs being in minshoes. I attribute this, well, I don't really know to what, it just makes me happier. I've also noticed running is more difficult in shoes (I already had respect for those shoddies who do ultras, but now it''s even more because it's quite a bit tougher to run in shoes than bare), although I can go much faster.

I've also noticed that shoes can make my arches hurt depending on the run, seems hilly runs are the worst. I do love running and not having crap jab me in the sole that was too small for my eyes to see and then I hate having to stop to dig it out. My feet seem to get really hot too in these shoes even though they are very well ventilated. I do like having the slight tread on the shoes when running over a thin film of mud on the road because I don't have to worry about busting my butt, but then I miss the squishing of the mud through my toes. In shoes I am much more apt to dodge a puddle (like an old fuddy duddy) in fear of soaking the shoes and causing myself a blister where as barefoot I would just splash through the puddles intentionally seeking them out as if I were a child. I do think once this PF is cleared up I may just run in huaraches for the most part. I think it would give me the best of both worlds. The PF is getting much better and I can't wait for it to be completely gone so I can get back to what I consider minimalist running.
 
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#2
Sounds like you're healing and finding a good combo that works for you. I've come to BFR more as a barefooter than a runner, so groundfeel and not getting hotfoot trump ease and speed. But I know what you mean about annoying debris getting stuck to the feet. And this winter I may don shoes a little more often than I did last winter so that I can do the kind of running I want to do more consistently, we'll see. Like everything else, it's a trade-off, right?
 
#3
You know Nick I agree with you. It is more difficult to run in shoes as opposed to barefoot. I logged a couple of things a while back while training for a half that I did not start. I noticed running in min shoes felt "heavy", and my cadence was slower but I ran faster at a lower HR. That told me I tend to overstride in min shoes. While barefoot my cadence was higher, speed was slower, and HR was higher, but I felt nice and comfortable. That is the reason why I try to run unplugged now and run by feel. It tends to get overbearing to start analizing every aspect of running with all the gizmos available to us. And with that being said I am not looking forward to the coming winter here as one has no choice but to wear shoes of some kind due to the cold. :( But that is at least another 3-4 months away. :)
 
#4
I notice the same Nick, I MUCH prefer to be barefoot, I even do it at work some
but I always get people starring at me and even making inane comments, like
"do you KNOW how dirty this floor is", or "what if you step on a tac" :rolleyes:

Huaraches are the worst in my book though, I have a pair of Luna sandals, and
what drives me nuts is that if there is some little pebble it will get caught between
my sole and the sandal and then won't flick off like it would if i were actually
barefoot.

I still have not run as far barefoot as I have wearing Nike Free's but I really
don't care, I have nothing to run for beside my own health and enjoyment, and
I can get that in shorter distances being barefoot anyway :cool:
 
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#7
Jay it seems to depend on the huarache for me about the little pebbles. Seems some tend to hold onto the pebbles and some do not. My homemade ones really seem to keep pebbles out but suck when it's wet or muddy. My Luna's suck for holding pebbles but are much much much better in the wet and mud. I think it may have something to do with the stiffness of the sole.

Dutchie, I'm not sure exactly if it's the weight of the shoe, or just how the shoe impedes natural movement causing the muscles to have to counterbalance the shoes forces on the foot that makes it more difficult. Maybe both. These particular shoes I'm wearing weigh 7.1 ounces, so barely more than my huaraches. I wouldn't think they would effect the difficulty of the run much more than huaraches do, but for some reason they do. I have this problem with all min/reg shoes. For some reason huaraches feel the closest to barefoot for me while still giving me the protection from thorns or rocks that I don't like to feel and hurt from. I am glad here in OR that huaraches ARE my winter footwear. We don't get as cold here as you do in Canada typically. My feet last winter were able to tolerate the wet and cold down to 31 degrees f while in huaraches, and we typically don't get much cooler than that except maybe a couple days here or there.
 
#8
Nick,

Could you elaborate on what you mean by the following....""" I've also noticed running is more difficult in shoes (I already had respect for those shoddies who do ultras, but now it''s even more because it's quite a bit tougher to run in shoes than bare)""""""

Based only on this info...I my guess is that shoes are throwing off your perception of injury free technique. IMO the solution is to develop alternative perceptions of optimal technique. Personally I use the same perception for barefoot and shod running and I am very happy with the result.
 
#9
B&A, look at the post of mine directly above yours (#7) and you'll see what I am saying about shoes being more difficult to run in than when barefoot.
 
#10
NickW said:
B&A, look at the post of mine directly above yours (#7) and you'll see what I am saying about shoes being more difficult to run in than when barefoot.
Click to expand...

That does make it sound like your perception of injury free technique will need to be adjusted in order to run with pleasure in shoes. Trust me...I know how to run in min shoes with pleasure :) Are you open to exploring alternative perceptions for shod running?
 
#11
I'm glad you are happy in minshoes B&A and I'm happy in mine, just not as happy as when barefoot or in huaraches. It will probably take more than the two weeks I've been wearing the shoes for me to adjust to them fully. I do wonder since shoes wrap completely around the foot, where huaraches the weight is nearly all on the sole, if shoes put different forces on the foot. If this is true then it stands to reason that muscles are being used differently to stabilize and balance the different forces. The muscles that are used to the foot being bare or in huaraches then would have to work harder and may be weaker in this area and would then need to be built back up. Two weeks is not really a significant time in building them up, but I can notice that it is getting easier than it was at first. Anyhow, not to get in a pissing match about running with pleasure in shoes vs barefoot or huaraches. I still find pleasure just being able to run. I do find pleasure in just being able to run, shod or bare. :D It wasn't too long ago that the docs told me I would never run again, so that in itself changes ones perception and makes you appreciate anything you can do that the docs said you couldn't.
 
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#12
dutchie53 said:
EVO's with smartwool socks and I am good to 30 below. Left Lane Sports usually have a 60-70% off sale a couple of times a year. Tried vff's but when the cold sets in with slushy snow they get a little chilly.
Click to expand...
Thanks. Last winter I used the Moc3s a handful of times when it was too cold for BFR, but last winter was very mild, as you know, and I ran during the warmest part of the day. If this winter is more like a normal Minnesota winter (i.e., not as bad as Winnipeg, but still pretty cold), then I'm thinking I mis' well get a proper minimalist running shoe with some decent tread. I'll look into the EVOs and Jason's Merrells for starters.
 
#13
Nick,

""""""" I do find pleasure in just being able to run, shod or bare."""""

Sorry, I just must have mis-read your opening post. Continue to enjoy your shod and barefoot running. Hope the healing of pf comes soon.
 
#14
B&A, the pf is getting better I think, slowly. I guess it's faster than when I was barefoot all the time, in which case I think the pf was actually getting worse... In any case, the shoes with orthotics in them right now are a temporary tool and I can't wait to get back to barefoot or huarache running.
 
#15
NickW said:
B&A, the pf is getting better I think, slowly. I guess it's faster than when I was barefoot all the time, in which case I think the pf was actually getting worse... In any case, the shoes with orthotics in them right now are a temporary tool and I can't wait to get back to barefoot or huarache running.
Click to expand...

In regards to the PF....seems very odd to me atleast that you would find that being barefoot would make it worse. IMO that would primarily be due to how 0ne is walking and running. Do you think the way you are moving could be affecting this area negatively? if yes, what do you think you could be doing negatively to continue to exacerbate the pf and interupt and slow its healing? Sorry if you have written this some where else before :-(
 
#18
I was just about to post what Jason said. The "more difficult in shoes" thing fades and it becomes, for me at least, a 'whichever way I run least often is more difficult' sort of thing. It's funny you bring it up, but I actually felt I could run more 'naturally' after I went back to shoes. By this I mean I felt less need to think about my foot landing and placement, etc. and relax, letting my legs just move naturally and bring my feet back under me. I've been happily injury free through my shod experience thus far (knocks on wood...). I credit my barefoot/minmal time and practice with helping me become more aware of my form as I run, but also my continuing to listen to my body's cues and messages as I build up mileage. That trumps all, regardless of chosen modality, in my opinion.
 
#19
barefootandagile said:
In regards to the PF....seems very odd to me atleast that you would find that being barefoot would make it worse. IMO that would primarily be due to how 0ne is walking and running. Do you think the way you are moving could be affecting this area negatively? if yes, what do you think you could be doing negatively to continue to exacerbate the pf and interupt and slow its healing? Sorry if you have written this some where else before :-(
Click to expand...
I am wondering if it has more to do with the heel to toe drop in the shoe vs barefoot's 0 drop. Also the support of the fascia from the orthotics seems to give me relief. I have posted this in an ask the docs post but so many non drs replied I think the drs are overlooking the post and not replying.

Jason and Lomad, it is getting more comfortable, it's just weird. I have to really pay more attention to how my feet are landing because I don't have the stimuli from the ground on the feet cuing me to the grounds surface. Anywho, I had an awesome 4 mile run today up a great paved and hilly trail I just found behind my house. Was amazing with some gorgeous views (minus the gloomy clouds)! I stopped and took a few pics and will post them in a separate post.
 
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