Primal running?

RHH

Barefooters
Jun 24, 2010
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Hi all:

With all of the traffic here and elsewhere on Primal/Paleo stuff, I spent some time on Mark's Daily Apple looking at his Primal Blueprint 101 - which tries to get at how our ancestors might have eaten, exercised, played, etc. way back when.

Mark sisson's recommnedation on exercise are:

- 2-5 hours/week aerobic exercise (e.g., brisk walk)

- lifting heavy stuff a few times/week

- sprinting 1-2 times / week

He suggests that the way I have exercised for most of my life: 40-60 minues of moderate to high cardiac output (level 2 or 3) is not productive and may be detrimental. Of course, a brisk walk sure doesn't feel like exercise, unless I am at it all day. I don't do any sprinting and other than occasional construction or yard stuff, very little lifting of heavy things.

I have read some other stuff in various forums about the benefits of long, low intensity aerobic exercise. What do others think about the Primal Blueprint exercise recommendations?

Thanks,

Randy
 
 Throw in some climbing,

Throw in some climbing, jumping, rolling...hitting stuff, and grappling....and you have pretty much my life ;-).....I love MovNat stuff....it fits in well with my Kung Fu and Yoga :-D
 
I really like crossfit, it

I really like crossfit, it priovides a great variety like that encouraged by MDA and Nate above, but is formatted to allow me to do it within my current constraints.

Crossfit doesn't necesarilly promote the aerobic excercise as described above, but I supplement with running/hiking/biking/rowing/swimming and I have seen some awesome benefits using a similar routine.
 
 that would be hella fun!

that would be hella fun!
 
I have heard similar things

I have heard similar things (mostly from people who read MDA). I think there is enough evidence that we were designed to distance run and lift heavy things alot more than that. I hang out on a nutrition forum where MDA is often cited as evidence that alot of sweatyl exercise is useless for health. I don't buy that at all, although I do like a more holistic approach (Crossfit elements, natural movement, strength training, etc.). I think some people need more exercise than others to be fit.
 
Thanks for thoughts on this. 

Thanks for thoughts on this. I'd like to get your specific thoughts on the following comment from the MDA site:

"Unfortunately, the popular wisdom of the past 40 years – that we would all be better off doing 45 minutes to an hour a day of intense aerobic activity – has created a generation of overtrained, underfit, immune-compromised exerholics. Hate to say it, but we weren’t meant to aerobicize at the chronic and sustained high intensities that so many people choose to do these days. The results are almost always unimpressive. Ever wonder why years of “Spin” classes, endless treadmill sessions and interminable hours on the “elliptical” have done nothing much to shed those extra pounds and really tone the butt?" (http://www.marksdailyapple.com/case-against-cardio/)

So I am pretty much doing exactly what Mark Sisson says I shouldn't be doing. How about all you folks? I your opinions, does Mark's case against more intense aerobic activity hold water?

thanks for your comments so far!

Randy
 
I do high intensity interval

I do high intensity interval training 3-4 times per week (Crossfit-inspired), do one or two sessions of running up and down hills for 30-60 minutes, and do one long run ranging from 20 to a high or 68 miles. I will occasionally throw in another run or two of about 5-15 miles. My program is somewhat similar to the Primal Blueprint, but it is merely coincidental.

I don't do any of it specifically for health; I do it to be able to develop and maintain the ability to run long distances with a minimal investment in training time. And I think it is fun. Better health is just an added benefit.

I enjoy trying new things as I am currently experimenting with a paleo diet. As far as supporting evidence, I am always skeptical. Both science and anecdotal evidence can be manipulated or interpreted to support or refute pretty much any opinion.

As far as the "eliptical and spin" crowd, I think part of their weight loss problem has to do with the 800 calorie iced mocha latte they indulge in after their 500 calorie-burning aerobic session. I've found most people are really, really bad at estimating the calories they burn (overestimate) and calories they consume (underestimate).
 
In terms of your general

In terms of your general fitness level, doing 45 minutes of cardio doesn't do a whole lot because it only addresses one aspect of overall fitness. Programs like Crossfit are great because they exercise all aspects of fitness. You need to do many different things during a week like sprints, heavy lifts, endurance-style weight lifting, aerobic exercise, etc. to be all-around healthy.

I'm always amazed by how much I can do with my Crossfit training. I used to be a heavy weight lifter, doing strength training 4-5 times a week for an hour or more a day. Now I do Crossfit for 20 minutes, 3 times a week, and I've maintained or increased my strength in all of the power lifts...plus I can run a marathon. I've never been this fit in my life.
 
"I don't do any of it

"I don't do any of it specifically for health; I do it to be able to develop and maintain the ability to run long distances with a minimal investment in training time. And I think it is fun. Better health is just an added benefit. "



Amen. That is what it comes down to, in the end. Running is a hobby. I don't know if it's beter for me than landscape painting or building model trains or anything else. It's just what I do for fun. I go to the gym almost every day and I can vouch that there is no consistent spin and elliptical crowd, except for the spin instructors. These mythological consistent cardio exercisers are an absolute myth that people like Mark likes to pull out to prove that cardio does not makes us thin or fit, but it's bullhockey. Anyone who can't acend a flight of stairs without wheezing or who can't play a game of tag with their kids can tell you it matters. My Dad powerwalked (12mm) home from work every day for 20 years of his job (7.5 miles). That is consistency and, yes, he is in great shape, and he still walks those kinds of distances regularly now and he's over 70.
 
 I've never been able to do

I've never been able to do "excersise for excersise's sake"....it bores the hell out of me...there has to be a "reason" for my movement...and FUN is a big reason of why I do anything I do...that being said I have excessive tendencies....this is how my "work outs" break down, including running (when I can run again :-/...another couple of weeks, but the leg is feeling much better)

30 hours a week of kung fu/taiji/grappling/weapons work---some of which are heavy, this includes 1/2 at the beginning of each class, with high-intensity calistentics (various versions of pushups and crunches, squats, lunges, jumps, rolls, etc)

10 hours a week of yoga (this is misleading though, because I teach most of those hours, and I don't get a full "practice" because it's not about me)

I do a little lifting (because I like the way it makes me feel...but only for about 15 min. 2xs a week...all upper body)....those same days, I fatigue out on body weight excersises, pull-ups, chin-ups, commandos, dragon flags...working on my human flag, dips....working on trying to get a full planche.

That's all for "work"....then we come to running....which I started because it seemed like it would be fun :)...before I got injured I was running 4-5 miles 3xs a week in the AM before my first Yoga class(road/flat "city trails)...and 5-8 miles on the mountain (hills/trails) twice a week....on the mountain, I jump, leap, crawl, use the surroundings as a play ground...

If I'm on vacation, I give my body a break too...lazy mountain bike riding, hiking, probably a bit of running this year too ;-).....and will work slowly on some of my martial arts "forms"...but I might do the last with a drink in my hand :-D.

I do sleep a lot when I get a chance...and I get a bi-weekly massage...I take time off if I start feeling "burnt out" too...but that doesn't happen that often.

And I do all of it completely bare foot :-D....except for the running part, I've been doing this for almost a decade, and I still get excited when I wake up in the morning and get to spend my days like this ;-).
 
 Move to PA Jason!  I'll put

Move to PA Jason! I'll put you to work :)
 
Cool stuff, folks.  I agree

Cool stuff, folks. I agree with Jason that NakedSoleNate has the day job dialed in right for long term health. I am a desk jockey whose day job it is to save Alaska's wild places (I direct The Nature Conservancy's Alaska Chapter) so I get a lot of satisfaction out of the substance of work, but not the activity of the job.

so for me, the run or ski 3-5x/week has been a way to stay fit. Given that I have limited time, it is usually a fairly high output 45 minute run/ski at maybe 75-80% of MHR without a lot of variation. Boring (well not the x-c skiing) but efficient. And usually in nice places (I have logged 20 minutes on a treadmill in 52 years and believe they are as evil as the vacuum cleaner).

so for me, the idea of shaking up the model to mix cross-fit type training and lower intensity (50-60% of MHR) sounds like it would be seriously beneficial. Oh yeah, and climbing back on the yoga wagon. And may be more fun and interesting as well. Also, with an almost 2-yr old daughter, this will let me justify more fun time on walks and playground stuff as part of my intensive training regime.

Thanks to all for great input.
 
Hi Jschwab:per your comments

Hi Jschwab:

Per your comments "These mythological consistent cardio exercisers are an absolute myth that people like Mark likes to pull out to prove that cardio does not makes us thin or fit, but it's bullhockey. Anyone who can't acend a flight of stairs without wheezing or who can't play a game of tag with their kids can tell you it matters. My Dad powerwalked (12mm) home from work every day for 20 years of his job (7.5 miles). That is consistency and, yes, he is in great shape, and he still walks those kinds of distances regularly now and he's over 70."

Actually, I am a consistent (not daily) cardio exerciser and my wife is moreso. We are both in good shape (I could lose that persistent 6-8 lbs). Mark's Daily Apple just gets me wondering if there is a better way to approach the goal of staying fit and able to do a wide range of activities.

Your Dad's very laudable consistent efforts actually fit exactly into Mark's model of what people should be doing - brisk walk for a couple of hours a day. Especially if he did this over time, his powerwalk was aerobically closer to a brisk walk than a level 3 run, I would guess. Great that he is that fit and hope it works well for another couple of decades for him.

Randy
 
I am not thin or talented

I am not thin or talented enough to ever be a fitness instructor, so I put that dream six feet under, but I would love to do something else more active, outside. People always comment on my running and how "healthy" it is and I always react by saying, "Nothing, nothing makes up for 40 hours a week at a desk." Last week, we moved offices which had me lifting box after 50 pound box. At the end of the week I felt way better than I had in awhile, fixed a nagging back pressure point that had been bothering me and it reminded me how unnatural desk work is.