Optimal strength training for runners

Sorry fellas, I should've posted a more general article, like this one: http://www.rdlfitness.com/best-exercise-tips/

What I like about his site is that he tries to understand everything according to general principles, like full ROM, anatomical or evolutionary function, and physiological adaptations, before deriving what he considers the best exercises or training protocols. His point about the shoulder is that it wasn't really designed for loading, but rather repositioning. I don't know enough about evolutionary biology to confirm or contradict this, but if true, it's worth considering when selecting exercises. And just going on experience, I like how he aligns with some of my findings, like the huge benefits of one-arm dumbbell rows, or going low rep and heavy.

Anyway, Thursday and Friday my left shoulder wasn't very happy, so I've got to revise last week's routine. Either separate the rows and bench press, or, more generally, separate the upper body pulls from the upper body pushes and maybe go back to doing the latter just once a week, something like this:

Yeah I read through a few more of his articles, to be honest though he still irritates me its like half bullshit and half useful. I prefer a more 80/20 balance or maybe even 70/30.
Things like:
"This ignores though that you could fulfill the need for cardio with intervals and walking instead."
"Bikes are unbalanced and rely on your skill to stay upright"
"Conditioning from cardio comes and goes faster than strength and size through heavy lifting"
"Only three exercises can give complete results from heavy training."
"Variety will harm you"
"Fitness today has shifted toward making exercise fun. I would suggest avoiding this direction."

This guy seriously sounds like my grandma "don't do it because you might fall and get hurt".

You are right it is important to think about excercise selection though. I have decided that I probably won't do power cleans, I tend to lift to push too much and I think it may be an easy one to get hurt doing. So see I agree with him there. But I wouldn't tell anyone not to do it.

Anyway now that I knocked him, I am going to stick with my routine I had been dong that is similar to what he is suggesting. I saw good results with it and figure might as well keep going until it fizzles. I am going to add a day and so there will be 3 days of variety and do each once a week for 10-20 reps per lift.

TBDL
Swings
Press
KB Rows
Farmer carries

Squat

Bench
Pull Ups
Ab roll outs

DL
Goblet Squats
Incline/CG bench
Chin ups
Suitcase walks
 

Whoa Sid. A veritable landmine of useful links. I like the idea of landmine presses in particular. But I should repeat that I wasn't cluing you guys into that site because of any problems with overhead pressing. As far as I know, I'm doing OK with it. Thursday and Friday I was very sore after a day of heavy rows and going back to a 1RM in the bench press for the first time in a long while. I did overhead presses on Monday with no real soreness on Tuesday. I think the soreness later in the week was due to one or a combination of these factors: (1) from simply overtraining, (2) combining rows and bench press in the same workout, (3) doing presses in two consecutive workouts, (4) pushing the 225-pound 1RM bench press all of a sudden after a month or two of fairly relaxed 3x5x185 training.

Yeah I read through a few more of his articles, to be honest though he still irritates me its like half bullshit and half useful. I prefer a more 80/20 balance or maybe even 70/30.
Things like:
"This ignores though that you could fulfill the need for cardio with intervals and walking instead."
"Bikes are unbalanced and rely on your skill to stay upright"
"Conditioning from cardio comes and goes faster than strength and size through heavy lifting"
"Only three exercises can give complete results from heavy training."
"Variety will harm you"
"Fitness today has shifted toward making exercise fun. I would suggest avoiding this direction."

This guy seriously sounds like my grandma "don't do it because you might fall and get hurt".

Ha, good analogy.

He's arguing from principles, not practice, a lot of times, so you're right, you have to weed out the bs from the useful, which is not always easy to do unless you've educated yourself on anatomy and physiology to the same degree. Still, I find it refreshing that someone is trying to deduce the underlying principles involved in ST, rather than resorting to the ad hoc reasoning one often finds on meathead sites. Thinking through his reasoning has helped clarify things a bit more for me. Even if I don't change much of what I'm doing, it's good to rethink the logic of my routine. A lot of it, happily, already jibes with his thinking. But I hope I'm not agreeing just because it's what I want to hear.

I would be very reluctant to throw out three of my main exercises--the deadlift, pullup, and OH press--just because they put the body in mechanically less advantageous movements than the squat, bench press, and row. And it's hard to figure, from a purely functional or adaptive point of view, how routinely carrying one's body weight on one's back while squatting is less harmful than pressing a quarter to half that weight over one's head. I mean, is he saying in our evolution we never had a need to put something heavy over our heads? It seems like various grips and positionings in the context of training repetition is the real issue, as some of Sid's links point out.

Some of the quotes you picked out are similarly problematic, like recommending only intervals or stairs for cardio, although I agree with a few, like variety for variety's sake being useless.

And I like that he provides general reasons for why, for example, medium grips and stances are best, rather than simply proposing it as a solution to a specific problem.

Finally, while it's true he goes against the thinking of a lot of smart people in the strength training mainstream, he points out that pure strength requirements are different from bodybuilding, Olympic weightlifting, and powerlifting requirements. That's one thing that's been impressed upon me lately, that a lot of the advice on T-Nation and Bodybuilding and other sites isn't aimed at guys like me. Even Rippetoe, who aims at a general, and generally novice, audience, seems to have a powerlifting bias. And so it's useful to question what, for example, is the purpose of a lateral shoulder raise or a wide-stance squat for pure strength development. For me, strength (as a foundation for general fitness) is the end; for Olympic weightlifters, bodybuilders, and powerlifters, strength is a means to an end, so the calculus for including or excluding an exercise may be different.

You are right it is important to think about exercise selection though. I have decided that I probably won't do power cleans, I tend to lift to push too much and I think it may be an easy one to get hurt doing. So see I agree with him there. But I wouldn't tell anyone not to do it.
Not sure what you mean by "lift to push too much." If you don't mind explaining, I'd appreciate it, since I'm on the fence with power cleans too. I'll probably keep them in the Friday routine for the time being, but keep them and everything else there fairly light. Still, it's tempting to throw them out and just squat more. It's just that I have a hard time mentally giving a good effort to an exercise more than once a week.

Anyway now that I knocked him, I am going to stick with my routine I had been dong that is similar to what he is suggesting. I saw good results with it and figure might as well keep going until it fizzles. I am going to add a day and so there will be 3 days of variety and do each once a week for 10-20 reps per lift.

TBDL
Swings
Press
KB Rows
Farmer carries

Squat
Bench
Pull Ups
Ab roll outs

DL
Goblet Squats
Incline/CG bench
Chin ups
Suitcase walks

Seems like a nice mix and rep range. I'm trying to keep each workout to 4-5 lifts too, sometimes I only do 3. This week I'm going to try to re-integrate the plyo and mobility stuff into the last 10-20 minutes of each workout, and will try to shorten the ST portion a bit to guard against overtraining. I'll try something like this:

Mon - Pull
ST Bottom: Deadlift
ST Middle: BB Row, DB Row & Russian Twist
ST Top: Chinups

Plyo: Box Jumps, Burpees
Stabilizers: Hyperextensions, Pike
Mobility: (c/ ankle weights) Leg Raises and Swings, Dirty Dog, Donkey Kick, Mountain Climber, Iron Cross, etc.

Wed - Push
ST Bottom: Squats & OH Squat
ST Middle: Bench Press
ST Top: OH Press and/or Landmine Press

Plyo: Bench Hops, Medicine Ball Toss
Stabilizers: Bicycle & Flutter Kicks
Mobility: Kicks, Clubbells, Bear Crawl

Fri-Lite
ST Bottom: Power Clean, Hex-Bar DL
ST Middle: Cable Row, Dips
ST Top: Neutral Grip Pullups

Plyo: Box Jumps, Burpees, Hex Bar Jump
Stabilizers: Hanging Leg Raises, Ab roll-outs
Mobility: (c/ ankle weights) Leg Raises and Swings, Dirty Dog, Donkey Kick, Mountain Climber, Iron Cross, etc.
 
Ha, good analogy.

He's arguing from principles, not practice, a lot of times, so you're right, you have to weed out the bs from the useful, which is not always easy to do unless you've educated yourself on anatomy and physiology to the same degree. Still, I find it refreshing that someone is trying to deduce the underlying principles involved in ST, rather than resorting to the ad hoc reasoning one often finds on meathead sites. Thinking through his reasoning has helped clarify things a bit more for me. Even if I don't change much of what I'm doing, it's good to rethink the logic of my routine. A lot of it, happily, already jibes with his thinking. But I hope I'm not agreeing just because it's what I want to hear.

I would be very reluctant to throw out three of my main exercises--the deadlift, pullup, and OH press--just because they put the body in mechanically less advantageous movements than the squat, bench press, and row. And it's hard to figure, from a purely functional or adaptive point of view, how routinely carrying one's body weight on one's back while squatting is less harmful than pressing a quarter to half that weight over one's head. I mean, is he saying in our evolution we never had a need to put something heavy over our heads? It seems like various grips and positionings in the context of training repetition is the real issue, as some of Sid's links point out.

Some of the quotes you picked out are similarly problematic, like recommending only intervals or stairs for cardio, although I agree with a few, like variety for variety's sake being useless.

And I like that he provides general reasons for why, for example, medium grips and stances are best, rather than simply proposing it as a solution to a specific problem.

Finally, while it's true he goes against the thinking of a lot of smart people in the strength training mainstream, he points out that pure strength requirements are different from bodybuilding, Olympic weightlifting, and powerlifting requirements. That's one thing that's been impressed upon me lately, that a lot of the advice on T-Nation and Bodybuilding and other sites isn't aimed at guys like me. Even Rippetoe, who aims at a general, and generally novice, audience, seems to have a powerlifting bias. And so it's useful to question what, for example, is the purpose of a lateral shoulder raise or a wide-stance squat for pure strength development. For me, strength (as a foundation for general fitness) is the end; for Olympic weightlifters, bodybuilders, and powerlifters, strength is a means to an end, so the calculus for including or excluding an exercise may be different.

Yeah I am totally throwing the baby out with the bath water because quite a bit of his advice is well thought out, its more of a general disagreement really with his black and white reality. But as you stated its good to challenge your beliefs often. I like the "do no harm" concept he seems to abide to and for a personal trainer I think that is the most important rule.

I do like to follow this guy because he is similar to me in combining running/powerlifting/triathlons. But once again I always cherry pick his advice because it is difficult to determine what results are a product of drug usage or good programming.
http://www.reddit.com/r/AdvancedFitness/comments/23of8l/alex_viada_ama/

Its good to have this discussion here though and I think overal we have fine tuned some concepts.

Not sure what you mean by "lift to push too much." If you don't mind explaining, I'd appreciate it, since I'm on the fence with power cleans too. I'll probably keep them in the Friday routine for the time being, but keep them and everything else there fairly light. Still, it's tempting to throw them out and just squat more. It's just that I have a hard time mentally giving a good effort to an exercise more than once a week.

The olympic lifts are and area I agree with the RDL site, mainly this section.

"They are non-specific for athletes.
Strength training should be general. Only the strength gained from an exercise transfers to other movements. Power cleans only make you better at power cleans, not vertical jumping or sprinting.
Skills either have a positive, neutral, or negative transfer. Positive transfer occurs when prior learning assists your skills. Negative transfer occurs when prior learning hampers your skills. Neutral transfer indicates no connection between past and new skills. Mimicking skills with weights can lead to negative transfer.
A baseball player that swings with a weighted bat changes their mechanics. The steps of the swing alter slightly and this can throw off coordination when returning to the real movement.
They should have developed their power instead by training the relevant muscles heavily and then just jumping and swinging at full speed. The time spent trying to imitate a specific skill in the weight room would have been better spent in practice.
Training with heavy weights builds up the exact fast-twitch muscle fibers most responsible for speed. Rate of force development increases with fast movements though, so you do need to practice your skill fast eventually. Explosiveness comes from practicing specific motions fast, not through Olympic lifting."

http://www.rdlfitness.com/avoid-olympic-lifts/

I don't often do explosive/power sports so I don't see that big of a need for speed lifts. I think hill sprints and mountain biking cover the power side for me adequately. Also I try to keep a majority of my lifts fast like a dynamic workout, especially the lighter set and think doing something like power cleans or even high pulls might be a little too redundant and risky. Especially since I have a tendency to push the weight angle vs. the form angle. I realize its a lift that takes a lot of practice and time and the benefit is minor so I am going to put it off for now.

The variety for variety's sake was a dig because I can understand how simplicity in 3 lifts would work for someone who has never lifted weights before, but its definitely going to stall after some time from either the person getting terribly bored and unevenly developed. I don't think a squat/bench/row or a squat/deadlift/bench plan is a good plan at all and will likely lead to injury as much as anything simply from over-patterning a movement. I just believe we are more complicated and are capable of working in more dimensions that up and down and in an out, but not above.

It has also been my experience that shoulders tweaks happen more on the bench than the press. I truly just think anatomically people are built differently and different things work better for some than others. I like to revel in the grey area and not be a dogmatist.
 
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Seems like a nice mix and rep range. I'm trying to keep each workout to 4-5 lifts too, sometimes I only do 3. This week I'm going to try to re-integrate the plyo and mobility stuff into the last 10-20 minutes of each workout, and will try to shorten the ST portion a bit to guard against overtraining. I'll try something like this:

Mon - Pull
ST Bottom: Deadlift
ST Middle: BB Row, DB Row & Russian Twist
ST Top: Chinups

Plyo: Box Jumps, Burpees
Stabilizers: Hyperextensions, Pike
Mobility: (c/ ankle weights) Leg Raises and Swings, Dirty Dog, Donkey Kick, Mountain Climber, Iron Cross, etc.

Wed - Push
ST Bottom: Squats & OH Squat
ST Middle: Bench Press
ST Top: OH Press and/or Landmine Press

Plyo: Bench Hops, Medicine Ball Toss
Stabilizers: Bicycle & Flutter Kicks
Mobility: Kicks, Clubbells, Bear Crawl

Fri-Lite
ST Bottom: Power Clean, Hex-Bar DL
ST Middle: Cable Row, Dips
ST Top: Neutral Grip Pullups

Plyo: Box Jumps, Burpees, Hex Bar Jump
Stabilizers: Hanging Leg Raises, Ab roll-outs
Mobility: (c/ ankle weights) Leg Raises and Swings, Dirty Dog, Donkey Kick, Mountain Climber, Iron Cross, etc.

Is there a reason why you are combining chin ups with rows and press and bench? I ask because I have difficulty doing heavy rows and chin ups in the same workout and usually find them better split up. And same for the bench and press.

Ok here is the prelim plan starting yesterday. I can't think of a good hinge curls? Maybe Straight legged deadlifts to work the hammy's?

Squat - TBDL -----------Squat---------Goblet Squats
Hinge - Swings ---------Curls?SLDL--Deadlift
Push - Press-------------Bench---------Inc/CG bench
Pull - KB Rows----------Pull Ups------Chins
Carry - Farmer carries--Ab Roll outs-Suitcase walks

Then also during the week:
3 bike commutes to work
1 speed running day
1 open water swim
2 easy run days - one long one shorter
2 MTB days
And 5 days of 20 minutes yoga/mobility

I am hoping to just leave the schedule open to help fit for life so I can do whatever I can whenever and take a day off if needed or not. I like to do something active each day so usually thats not an issue.

Not sure how to fit all this in?
 
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Yeah I am totally throwing the baby out with the bath water because quite a bit of his advice is well thought out, its more of a general disagreement really with his black and white reality. But as you stated its good to challenge your beliefs often. I like the "do no harm" concept he seems to abide to and for a personal trainer I think that is the most important rule.

I do like to follow this guy because he is similar to me in combining running/powerlifting/triathlons. But once again I always cherry pick his advice because it is difficult to determine what results are a product of drug usage or good programming.
http://www.reddit.com/r/AdvancedFitness/comments/23of8l/alex_viada_ama/

Nice site! I'll check it out more later.

Its good to have this discussion here though and I think overal we have fine tuned some concepts.

Mos' definitely. My sense of these things has grown exponentially thanks to this thread. And it shows in the results I've been getting lately.

The olympic lifts are and area I agree with the RDL site, mainly this section.

"They are non-specific for athletes.
Strength training should be general. Only the strength gained from an exercise transfers to other movements. Power cleans only make you better at power cleans, not vertical jumping or sprinting.
Skills either have a positive, neutral, or negative transfer. Positive transfer occurs when prior learning assists your skills. Negative transfer occurs when prior learning hampers your skills. Neutral transfer indicates no connection between past and new skills. Mimicking skills with weights can lead to negative transfer.
A baseball player that swings with a weighted bat changes their mechanics. The steps of the swing alter slightly and this can throw off coordination when returning to the real movement.
They should have developed their power instead by training the relevant muscles heavily and then just jumping and swinging at full speed. The time spent trying to imitate a specific skill in the weight room would have been better spent in practice.
Training with heavy weights builds up the exact fast-twitch muscle fibers most responsible for speed. Rate of force development increases with fast movements though, so you do need to practice your skill fast eventually. Explosiveness comes from practicing specific motions fast, not through Olympic lifting."

http://www.rdlfitness.com/avoid-olympic-lifts/

I don't often do explosive/power sports so I don't see that big of a need for speed lifts. I think hill sprints and mountain biking cover the power side for me adequately. Also I try to keep a majority of my lifts fast like a dynamic workout, especially the lighter set and think doing something like power cleans or even high pulls might be a little too redundant and risky. Especially since I have a tendency to push the weight angle vs. the form angle. I realize its a lift that takes a lot of practice and time and the benefit is minor so I am going to put it off for now.

Well, for me, since I don't practice any sports at the moment, doing an explosive lift like the power clean might be good just for general fitness. I just have to decide whether or not it's putting undue stress on my shoulders. That's my only concern. Otherwise, I think it might be good to practice a skill like that once a week. Just as getting good at a technical lift like the squat is probably a good way to stroke any latent athleticism left in me. I agree though it's hard to fight the temptation to go heavy. If I can manage it, I'm going to try to stay light and really focus on form for many months. Like the AtG squat, I'm viewing it as a project, not looking for immediate gains per se.

The variety for variety's sake was a dig because I can understand how simplicity in 3 lifts would work for someone who has never lifted weights before, but its definitely going to stall after some time from either the person getting terribly bored and unevenly developed. I don't think a squat/bench/row or a squat/deadlift/bench plan is a good plan at all and will likely lead to injury as much as anything simply from over-patterning a movement. I just believe we are more complicated and are capable of working in more dimensions that up and down and in an out, but not above.

Yah, I agree. I don't think the lifts I've included in my weekly routine besides the squat, bench, and row are gratuitous variety. I've thought them through and tried them out and they all serve a specific purpose, although I'm still experimenting and taking in new information. Over the last year or more, however, I've pruned a lot of exercises that really were included just for variety sake. The thing I like about RDL is that he goes through the pros and cons of each exercise so that the reader can make up their own mind in a well-informed manner. His article titles tend to be more dogmatic that the contents, but I guess that's just to attract readers, I dunno. In any case, he's made it easier to throw out some exercises that I've never liked too much, like the hip thrust.

It has also been my experience that shoulders tweaks happen more on the bench than the press. I truly just think anatomically people are built differently and different things work better for some than others. I like to revel in the grey area and not be a dogmatist.

Yeah, we have slightly different preferences, as does Sid, and that's fine. Body types, goals, previous experience, it's all part of the equation. I think moving from a wide-grip to medium-grip bench press has been the biggest help for my shoulder issue. I'm still experimenting to find out if anything else needs to be modified or cut. Yesterday neutral grip pullups seemed to irritate it, so that and wide-grip pullups might be the next things to go. We'll see.

Is there a reason why you are combining chin ups with rows and press and bench? I ask because I have difficulty doing heavy rows and chin ups in the same workout and usually find them better split up. And same for the bench and press.

Yeah, I'm trying to do the pulls twice a week and the pushes just once, since my bench is still much better than my row. Hard to say whether I'm better at OH presses than chinups though, since I suck at both. Last week I tried to do rows and bench press on the same day and my left shoulder really didn't like it, but I suppose I could try doing rows with OH presses, and bench with chinups. Unlike you, however, I think I get some benefit from putting all the upper body pulls and pushes on separate workouts. I think it's because I then have more time for the pushing and pulling muscles to recover. The pushing muscles get up to a week, and the pulling muscles get 3-4 days for recovery. With my high intensity approach, I think this is key for avoiding overtraining.

Ok here is the prelim plan starting yesterday. I can't think of a good hinge curls? Maybe Straight legged deadlifts to work the hammy's?

Squat - TBDL -----------Squat---------Goblet Squats
Hinge - Swings ---------Curls?SLDL--Deadlift
Push - Press-------------Bench---------Inc/CG bench
Pull - KB Rows----------Pull Ups------Chins
Carry - Farmer carries--Ab Roll outs-Suitcase walks

That Dan John/40-day set of five exercise types is an interesting protocol. It comes pretty close to what I'm doing, except I'm giving both pulls (chinup and row) and both pushes (bench and OH press) equal weight with the squat and hinge. If I following through on Sid's idea, I may start doing farmer's carries once or twice a week on my way to work. Since I like to go heavy with pretty much every exercise I do, it wouldn't work for me to do one of each type of exercise each workout, but with your EMOM approach, I could see how it would work. Would you describe your program as more of a pure volume approach?

Then also during the week:
3 bike commutes to work
1 speed running day
1 open water swim
2 easy run days - one long one shorter
2 MTB days
And 5 days of 20 minutes yoga/mobility

I am hoping to just leave the schedule open to help fit for life so I can do whatever I can whenever and take a day off if needed or not. I like to do something active each day so usually thats not an issue.

Not sure how to fit all this in?

That's the perennial problem! That's a pretty ambitious schedule you have there, especially with a newborn in tow. It's all I can do to get in three good runs and three good ST sessions per week.

Yesterday, felt like crap, but once I warmed up to 315 on my DL, I decided to do something stupid and added another 40 pounds, for a new PR of 355, up from 345.

Nope.

I might've done it if my life depended on it, but mentally, I just wasn't up for it. I could feel that I would be putting my back and/or knees at risk, so I dropped it after a few inches of lift. Then I took off 20 pounds and did singles all the way back down to 285 in 10-pound increments--335, 325, 315, 305, 295. Once I got to 285, I did two sets of five reps. Wow, did that feel great after all the heavy singles. Might've been my best deadlift workout yet. I was shredded.

So now I have a pretty good idea of what a workable 1RM deadlift is for me. It's about 335. I'll try to stay there for a few weeks and try to get my worksets up to 305 or so before trying for a new 1RM PR.

For the rows, I just did 3x5x100 db rows. I didn't have it in me to do my 120-pound dumbbells, and I wasn't interested in trying bb rows. Maybe I should save the heavy rows for Friday's workout? Then I did the Russian Twists, and then supersetted (assisted) chinups with hyperextensions. I did the latter while holding an empty barbell across my shoulders, crucifixion-style. Next time I'll try it with a few plates on. When I went to neutral grip pullups my left shoulder protested, so I called it a day and moved on to box jumps. By then my family had come home so my son stayed in the garage to admire my jumping ability while my daughter made fun of me before heading straight for her ipad and Minecraft. I kept the max height at 19" since it's been a while since I did box jumps. I'll shoot for 24" next time.

So I didn't get that far into my new post-ST plyo/stabilizer(core)/mobility routine, but it was a start. I think it's going to work to combine all that stuff with the st sessions, and just do stretching on my running days. Last night I slept like a baby and had dreams about squats. Today my whole back is sore. I'm glad I added the hyperextensions back in, even if violates one of RDL's principles of not loading or directly working the stabilizers. With the Hyperextensions finishing off a session of DLs, Rows, Chinups, and Russian Twists, I really get a complete back workout.
 
That's the perennial problem! Pretty ambitious schedule, especially with a newborn in tow. It's all I can do to get in three good runs and three good ST sessions per week.

Yesterday, felt like crap, but once I warmed up to 315 on my DL, I decided to do something stupid and added another 40 pounds, for a new PR of 355.

Nope.

I might've done it if my life depended on it, but mentally, I just wasn't up for it. I could feel that I would be putting my back and/or knees at risk, so I dropped it after a few inches of lift. Then I took off 20 pounds and did singles all the way back down to 285 in 10-pound increments--335, 325, 315, 305, 295. Once I got to 285, I did two sets of five reps. Wow, did that feel great after all the heavy singles. Might've been my best deadlift workout yet. I was shredded.

So now I have a pretty good idea of what a workable 1RM deadlift is for me. It's about 335. I'll try to stay there for a few weeks and try to get my worksets up to 305 or so before trying for a new PR.

For the rows, I just did 3x5x100 db rows. I didn't have it in me to do my 120-pound dumbbells. Maybe I should save the heavy rows for Friday's workout? Then I did the Russian Twists, and then supersetted (assisted) chinups with hyperextensions. I did the latter while holding a empty barbell across my shoulders, crucifixion-style. Next time I'll try it with a few plates on. When I went to neutral grip pullups my left shoulder protested, so I called it a day and moved onto box jumps. By then my family had come home so my son stayed in the garage to admire my jumping ability while my daughter made fun of me before heading straight for her ipad and Minecraft. I kept the max height at 19" since it's been a while since I did box jumps. I'll shoot for 24" next time.

So I didn't get that far into my new post-ST plyo/stabilizer(core)/mobility routine, but it was a start. I think it's going to work to combine all that stuff with the st sessions, and just do stretching on my running days. Last night I slept like a baby and had dreams about squats. Today my whole back is sore. I'm glad I added the hyperextensions back in, even it violates one of RDL's principles of not loading or directly working the stabilizers. With the Hyperextensions finishing off a session of DLs, Rows, Chinups, and Russian Twists, I really get a complete back workout.

Haha some days weight is just glued to the floor and then others that same weight feels light. It's funny how it works. Normally what I do is not think about it, I just walk up squat down and pull and just keep it in my head that I can do it and usually that helps get over the mental aspect.

Something I have been tinkering with is what DL weight to rep with I am thinking of only doing 140+ for all of my DL sets and skip the easier sets other than a warmup? I think it works a little better with lower volume to push higher work set percentages. I might also stick with the 1-2-3-1-2-3 pattern.

Maybe doing a heavy back day on friday wouldnt be a bad idea? Your back/grip should be toast after that DL session and is probably limiting you. I've done hyper extensions with weight before and have found holding a plate to the chest is the most comfortable.
 
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Haha some days weight is just glued to the floor and then others that same weight feels light. It's funny how it works. Normally what I do is not think about it, I just walk up squat down and pull and just keep it in my head that I can do it and usually that helps get over the mental aspect.
Yah, the mental aspect and biorhythms factor into it, and yesterday I was kind of low in both, so 355 is still conceivable, but it did feel pretty close to my physical limit. Up to now, as I've worked my way up from 275 to 345 over the last several months, it's mostly been a matter of overcoming my mental limits, getting the confidence that I wasn't risking injury. From here on out though, it will be more a matter of improving my physical strength, with perhaps a little extra boost from improved technique. So I expect progress will be slower. 405 by the end of the year might be overly ambitious, but we'll see. If I can get more consistent with the squats and really nail the technique, then there should start to be some carry-over to the DLs, so that will help too. My new emphasis on super heavy rows might factor in as well.
Something I have been tinkering with is what DL weight to rep with I am thinking of only doing 140+ for all of my DL sets and skip the easier sets other than a warmup? I think it works a little better with lower volume to push higher work set percentages. I might also stick with the 1-2-3-1-2-3 pattern.
I dunno, I really like a couple of sets of 4-5 reps at the end of my DL session. It works the back and butt differently than 1-2 reps. I agree though big lifts like the squat, deadlift, bench, and probably db rows should all be done in the lower rep ranges. Even for the lighter lifts like OH presses, I think one should go as heavy as possible while still maintaining good form. Currently that means 4-5 reps for me. Anything in the 1-2 rep range and my right arm starts to take over and the bar goes up unevenly. RDL really helped nail the point home that intensity and tension are all that really matter in strength training. In any case, I've always hated higher rep training and now I have a good excuse to avoid it.
Maybe doing a heavy back day on friday wouldnt be a bad idea? Your back/grip should be toast after that DL session and is probably limiting you. I've done hyper extensions with weight before and have found holding a plate to the chest is the most comfortable.
Yeah, I agree, thanks. Monday the focus should be on DLs, right? And then maybe go medium intensity on the rows--maybe just stick to Pendlay rows? Friday, the power cleans or hex-bar DLs could be medium or light and the db rows heavy. The only real problem area then is Wednesday, where doing squats, bench presses and OH presses and dips all in one day gets to be problematic. It would be good to shift either the squats or the dips to Friday, but then that starts to overload that day. Maybe I should throw out the power cleans? Something like this:

Mon
DLs, barbell rows, russian twist, chinups,
hyperextensions, box jumps, mobility, burpees

Wed
Bench Press, OH press, Dips,
bench hops, med ball toss, flutter kicks, bicycle, kicks, clubbells

Fri
Squats
DB rows, cable rows, chinups,
hyperextensions, ab rollout, box jumps, hanging leg raises, mobility.

But if I continue to de-emphasis the presses, then I could keep the squats on Wednesday and do some power cleans or hex-bar dls or jumps to start things off on Friday. That's this week's semi-official plan:

ST 3 Bottom-Middle-Top  14.07.29.jpg
First world problem I guess.

In any case, the routine is settling slowly but surely. A few more weeks of experimentation and it should be pretty solid, with a good balance of intensity, adequate recovery time, and avoiding aggravating my left shoulder. It would be nice to do pretty much the exact same thing for six months or so and really progress.

For hypers, I agree holding a plate to the chest is most comfortable and easiest to get into position, but I find I get a little extra benefit from holding my hands behind my head, so I'm trying to find a weighted version of that.
 
http://www.t-nation.com/training/10-principles-for-better-programming/comments

Here is a good article about some stuff we have been discussing. I like the Parreto's principle not sure if it holds true but it's interesting to think about.
Pretty good list. I guess we've come to similar conclusions through trail and error and disparate readings. Perreto's 80/20 ratio seems a little extreme, but the general principle of focusing on what benefits you most is probably correct, although it's not always easy to tell how much apparently peripheral activities may be supporting one's main foci. Still, participating on your thread here and reading Rippetoe, RDL, and others has really helped me pare things down to the basics. I also liked how he included some kind of rotational exercise or trunk flexion in his list of basic patterns. I really like the Russian Twist, Lawnmower, Golf Swing, and my recent overloading of the Dumbbell Row for this very reason.

Just picked up two of these: https://www.lift.net/store/strength-accessories/66-dead-wedge.html

Will make loading deadlifts a little easier now that I'm routinely putting three 45-pound plates on either side, and also help hold the bar in one place on the floor. It tends to shift around a bit.

Random thought: do assisted dips for a while to help build up flexibility without risking aggravating the shoulder. I've been enjoying doing assisted chinups towards the end of my Pull workout. It ends up being more of lighter finishing exercise that way. Maybe dips should perform that function for my Push workouts too, at least while I'm trying to get my bench and OH presses stronger. Last week's experience of extreme soreness for two days after Wed's workout made me a little paranoid about overtraining. Everything's going so well, don't want to get greedy and blow it.

Hey, btw, you got an opinion about lunges?

I guess one or two beers in the evening is still OK: http://www.t-nation.com/diet-fat-loss/lifters-guide-to-alcohol
 
Anybody tried bulgarian splits? I don't have much equipment and it looks like a decent enough substitute for squats. It works your balance too.
 
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Give it a try, and let us know how it goes! :D
I should have been more specific. I have indeed tried it. I actually wanted people's thoughts on it. :p

Personally, I like it, but I feel if you don't have proper balance (like on my right leg) it becomes difficult to execute with proper form.
I'm not sure who's known to be a credible source on youtube or not, but the video shows the movement. Skip to 0:55 if you don't wanna hear the intro.
 
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http://www.rdlfitness.com/how-to-split-squat/
http://www.rdlfitness.com/avoid-lunges/

Personally, if I were to do one-legged versions of the squat, I'd do them with the unweighted leg in front. But it seems safest, easiest, and most natural just to do step-ups with dumbbells. Even unweighted, it's a challenge to step up onto my adjustable plyo box when it's at 24" height.

Yeah my experience with lunges have been they cause significant DOMS and knee aches without any noticeable benefits. I think weighted stair climbs or step ups might be a little better for safety reasons.
Opps, should've refreshed before I posted this just now. Thanks for the confirmation!
 
I like those wedges, I'm a little too cheap and a 2.5 plate works for me but those are pretty cool.

About the beer, I have cut back my intake to a beer a night and maybe 2 a day on the weekend. This and the protein shakes is really helping with some weight loss or maybe body composition. I am down a notch in my weight belt as of this morning. Feeling a bit weak this week, lack of sleep and a gnarly head cold probably isn't helping.
 
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http://www.rdlfitness.com/how-to-split-squat/
http://www.rdlfitness.com/avoid-lunges/

Personally, if I were to do one-legged versions of the squat, I'd do them with the unweighted leg in front. But it seems safest, easiest, and most natural just to step-ups with dumbbells. Even unweighted, it's a challenge to step up onto my adjustable plyo box when it's at 24" height.


Opps, should've refreshed before I posted this just now. Thanks for the confirmation!
I might have to build my own box then. I'll look into this next week (I'll be on vacation at home).

PS Haven't read the links yet. Will do throughout the day.
 
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I should have been more specific. I have indeed tried it. I actually wanted people's thoughts on it. :p

Personally, I like it, but I feel if you don't have proper balance (like on my right leg) it becomes difficult to execute with proper form.
I'm not sure who's known to be a credible source on youtube or not, but the video shows the movement. Skip to 0:55 if you don't wanna hear the intro.

Ben Bruno puts out a lot of single leg training info and his site is a good one to look around in if you need some tips.
 
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