Maybe forefoot running is more complicated than it seems?

Discussion in 'Barefoot & Minimalist Running' started by Sid, Feb 10, 2014.

  1. Sid Barefooters

    Member Since:
    Jan 1, 2011
    Message Count:
    2,151
    I was looking through some of the videos from The Gait Guys, Dr. Ivo Waerlop and Dr. Shawn Allen. It seems that there's more to forefoot running than meets the eye. This might explain why it requires some degree of patience and persistence for successful transitioning.

    The Naked Foot: Thoughts for the Shoe Minimalist by The Gait Guys
    The Naked Foot: Just the Facts about the Barefoot & Minimalist Movement.


    Thread with more information on Forefoot vs. Midfoot Strike from The Gait Guys.
    http://www.thebarefootrunners.org/index.php?posts/150370


    Post with more information on Top Of Foot Pain.
    http://www.thebarefootrunners.org/index.php?posts/153437


    Thread with more information on calluses.
    http://www.thebarefootrunners.org/index.php?posts/153039


    Post with more information on the Foot Arches from The Gait Guys.
    http://www.thebarefootrunners.org/index.php?posts/150368


    Post with more information on the Foot Tripod from The Gait Guys.
    http://www.thebarefootrunners.org/index.php?posts/151877


    Post with more information on Toe Exercises from The Gait Guys.
    http://www.thebarefootrunners.org/index.php?posts/151882


    Thread with more information on Foot Types from The Gait Guys
    http://www.thebarefootrunners.org/index.php?posts/150369


    Thread with more information on Forefoot varus from The Gait Guys
    http://www.thebarefootrunners.org/index.php?posts/150367


    Thread with more information on Morton's Toe from The Gait Guys
    http://www.thebarefootrunners.org/index.php?posts/150373


    Thread with more information on Bunions from The Gait Guys
    http://www.thebarefootrunners.org/index.php?posts/150377


    OTHER TOPICS
    The Gait Guys talk about: Pronation and Supination


    The "Top-End" Peroneal Walk Foot Skill: Another Restoration Foot Trick by The Gait Guys


    Driving strength in the anterior compartment to achieve length in the posterior compartment.


    The Gait Guys Talk about Tight and Weak Muscles


    EDITED: Original post split into multiple threads.
  2. Barefoot TJ Administrator
    1. Nomad
    2. Presidents

    Member Since:
    Mar 5, 2010
    Message Count:
    16,150
    Thanks for compiling all this, Sid. I have stickied the thread.

    ________________________

    Bare Lee likes this.
  3. Bare Lee Chapter Presidents
    1. Minnesota

    Member Since:
    Jul 25, 2011
    Message Count:
    5,022
    I wonder if everyone is referring to the same thing with the terms "forefoot landing" and "midfoot landing." At an easy pace, I come close to a true midfoot landing, or flat-footed landing, with the forefoot landing just slightly before the rest of the foot. This has always been the natural landing for my right foot, but it took a little conscious adjustment for my left foot to land the same way. Of course, when sprinting, the forefoot landing is much more pronounced. Then I would say it's more of a true forefoot landing.

    When I took up barefoot running again in 2010-11, I read somewhere that the forefoot landing is key, and exaggerated it when running easy pace. I'm pretty sure this exacerbated my top-of-the-foot-pain. (I don't think it necessarily caused it however, since I can still get tofp if I don't massage my lower leg regularly.)

    So I wonder how many midfoot landings are really slightly forefoot landings, and how many forefoot landings are exaggerated versions of this. In any case, everything feels pretty good to me now. I know the Gait Guys wouldn't like this, but for the time being I've adopted a "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" stance, and just run by feel these days. Still, it's great that Sid has mined this rich vein of information. A great resource!

    ________________________

    scedastic and Sid like this.
  4. Sid Barefooters

    Member Since:
    Jan 1, 2011
    Message Count:
    2,151
    https://m.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=212252775481072&id=169366033103080
    Yes, it seems that there are several terms being tossed around. I'm guessing that a lot of slower joggers may never fully engage the muscles that The Gait Guys talk about.

    Hey, I managed to limp along a 1000 miles, before regaining some mobility and strength in the left big toe. Until more recently, that left foot was far more slappy than springy, leading me to prefer soft trails over hard surfaces. Hopefully, now I'll be able to make further progress.
    scedastic, dharmadan and Bare Lee like this.
  5. Sid Barefooters

    Member Since:
    Jan 1, 2011
    Message Count:
    2,151
    Apparently, Dr. Mark uses midfoot.
    http://www.runnersworld.com/injury-treatment/run-softly-naturally?page=single

    I'd say on the trail, I'm midfoot. Running fast on hard surfaces, forefoot.
    Though, lately on routine runs, I've been experimenting with medial forefoot after reading about Lee Saxby.

    Update: I think that with my feet, slightly lateral is going to be the way to go, due to the bunion on my left foot.
  6. Bare Lee Chapter Presidents
    1. Minnesota

    Member Since:
    Jul 25, 2011
    Message Count:
    5,022
    Nice summary of the whole concept of 'natural' running.

    I checked out my gait on this morning's run-commute. It was cool to feel the supination and then stiffening on push-off that Allen describes in one his videos. And I'm pretty sure I would be considered a midfoot striker. The forefoot landing is very subtle, and might be a product of my imagination. The foot lands close to parallel.

    "horse: walk, trot, canter, gallop
    man: walk, jog, run, sprint....very similar"

    I think in one of Lieberman's papers he says the horse has three gaits, and humans two; jogging, running, and sprinting are really the same gait with different ranges of motion.

    ________________________

  7. Sid Barefooters

    Member Since:
    Jan 1, 2011
    Message Count:
    2,151
    Do you know which paper that was in? I can't find it. Thanks!
  8. Bare Lee Chapter Presidents
    1. Minnesota

    Member Since:
    Jul 25, 2011
    Message Count:
    5,022

    ________________________

    Sid likes this.
  9. Sid Barefooters

    Member Since:
    Jan 1, 2011
    Message Count:
    2,151
    Thanks! This gait stuff is pretty interesting.

    I found this from Vivobarefoot/Lee Saxby.
    http://trainingclinic.vivobarefoot....oception-Making_Sense_of_Barefoot_Running.pdf
    They seem to differentiate between running and sprinting on page 8. I don't know enough to say whether or not landing more forefoot vs. midfoot, lateral vs. medial, heel touch vs. no heel touch, involvement of the big toe constitutes an entirely separate gait. I can say that for me, walking, running, sprinting and varying the landing seems to exercise different areas. So, I'm going to focus on having more variability when walking/running.

    I found this website on horse gaits, and it has some nifty animations.
    "The gallop is a variation of the canter" http://www.horseclub.co.uk/paces.

    Thanks again! Very interesting reading.
    Bare Lee likes this.
  10. Sid Barefooters

    Member Since:
    Jan 1, 2011
    Message Count:
    2,151
    Original post now split into multiple threads and expanded.
    peter.robinson likes this.

Share This Page