Just registered for my first ever marathon. On trails!

So I need some advice from all of you because you guys have come through for me in the past with so much helpful info!

I just signed up for my first ever marathon. Its a trail marathon. I run both roads and trails and really want to do a trail marathon for my first one. Its the Rock'n River 50 Miler and Marathon on Oct 15 of this year. It starts at the top of the American River in Auburn, CA and goes to Negro Bar down at the bottom in Folsom.

My heart says I can do this, but my head is thinking "Oh no you didn't!!!" I've been in serious training mode for other trail races I'm doing this year and will be ramping it up to complete this marathon. Right now I'm probably averaging around 12-13 min. mi. on trails and I plan on doing some or all of this race in my Merrell Pace Gloves. I've been running completely barefoot for almost 9 months now.

I need to know what to expect in the way of how long it might take me, what's important to bring, should I have someone meet me with stuff at the aid stations and if so what kind of "stuff" is important to have for a long trail race. I have no clue what my body will be able to handle at this distance - I haven't even done a half marathon trail run yet (that's planned for mid August) and its been years since I've been able to run a decent distance.

Any help and advice would be greatly appreciated!! Thanks so much!!
 
I just want to wish you the

I just want to wish you the best of luck, although you won't need it, since I know you will do well!
 
Hey Zap,I just read a book

Hey Zap,

I just read a book about competitive running by feel (RUN by Matt Fitzgerald) that I reviewed for the BRS (should be up any moment now) and was blown away by all there is to know about that stuff. I'd recommend getting a book on training for marathons. That should be a good way to answer the million questions that'll come up. I'm finally healthy and ramping up speed and distance for a summer of races and having a book to refer to is invaluable.

Good luck! I can't wait to hear about it! :)
 
Hey Zap,Just ordered one of

Hey Zap,

Just ordered one of your shirts. Can't wait to get it. Zapsthreads represent!
 
If I were to run another

If I were to run another marathon I would do things a lot different than what is typically given as training advice for long runs. I would vary my level of nutritional intake during the run, basically eat and drink frequently to nothing and a big variety ie. gu's and natural foods. I would run varying speeds, basically walking to sprinting during the run. I would also stagger my runs at different times during the day and run on different terrain as much as possible. And I wouldn't space every long run a week apart, I would run 2 long runs in a week take a week off and then do one the next week.

This way your body is prepared to handle various situations and adapt as needed. Routine has always came back to haunt me in the form of overuse injuries.
 
Hi Zap, I just ran my first

Hi Zap,



I just ran my first ever half marathon, on trails. It was also my first real trail run. I trained only on flat roads since I don't have trails nor hills in my area. I don't know how my experience would translate to a full marathon or to someone with proper trianing but it can give you an idea.



First of all I want to say that I am hooked to trail races and long-ish distances and I can see a trail marathon in my future, probably next year. I signed up for my first marathon (on road) before running that half and now I think I don't care for it that much anymore, i'd rather run trails.

Footwear:

I ran most of the race in my Merrell Pace Gloves. It allowed me to really enjoy the downhills and take them faster. Barefoot down the hills I kept thinking of Nate and his sliced feet and even if my race was mostly on dry ground the fear made it not enjoyable. The flats and uphills were really nice barefoot. Since switching between shod/unshod was so time consuming and annoying I think in the future I will race in the Merrell...and maybe train barefoot if I ever get opportunities to train on trails.

The Merrells were getting too hot for my liking after 3+ hours but that probably because i'm used to the comfort of running barefoot. I'm wondering how trail huaraches would work for me, with the alternate tying method since I cannot stand the string between my toes.



Bugs:

My race is knowned for its annoying horse flies. I had one near my head for at least 4 miles but it didn't bother me. I put DEET bug repellent on my leg because I was afraid of ticks and someone gave me a mosquito wipe for my face. I should have known better to not put stuff on my face. Mosquito repellent hurts when it leaks in the eyes with the sweat.

Hydration:

I carried a belt with a water bottle that I refilled at each of the 4 water stations. I could not have done without it on such a hot day. I carried a few Nuun tablets to add to my water. I did 1 bottle of pure water and the rest with Nuun. Also I tried to hydrate well the day before and the morning of the race. The belt has a convenient pocket to carry all sorts of useless things (nutrition, Nuun tablets, mosquito wipes).



Nutrition:

I totally messed up. I did normal meal the day before and didn't eat anything the morning of the race, I didn't feel like it. The race started at 10am and I had a banana 1h before. I carried a few Larabars in my belt and some hard honey-ginger candies. I tried to eat the bars during the race but really had to force myself. I consumed only 1 bar and 1 candy but I could feel I needed more. I want to stick to 'real' food so I didn't want to try gels. On training runs I don't eat but my training runs were all on flat and much shorter.



Elimination:

You probably don't want to know about that but it was important to me. On top of the fact that food was really unappealing that morning, I had that semi-conscious worry to run with too much weight down my intestine and it would make the run unconfortable and create the need to eliminate. Liquids were not a problem. I sweated so much that my liquid intake was just keeping up with that. And I would not have had a pb stepping off the trail for a few minutes if my bladder was too full. It may not be an issue for other runners but it got me thinking a little too much.



Hills:

I didn't train on hills. I don't have hills near my house. And I didn't specifically train for that race, it was almost a last minute decision. So during the race I walked many many hills, much more than what I expected. All people around me were doing the same. Before the race I read a few times the chapters on hills in Chi Running and it made a lot of sense to me to not run uphills on my toes (using mostly calf muscles). I used his technique even when I walked and try to use my arms more but my upper body was not trained enough. Overall, I used muscles that I don't normally use but I also noticed that different sections of the trail used different muscles, giving other muscles a chance to rest. That effect seem to be more pronounced on trails than on road. I think with proper technique and by alternating different speeds it's possible to run for much longer periods of time on trails.

Lenght of the race:

I ran for 3h 18 mi. I had no cramps or pain during the run. I did feel out of breath and had to walk but I never felt like moving was difficult or painful. I felt a little weak and tried to eat but I should have tried harder. I believe that with proper nutrition I could have kept running for longer than that. I used my Garmin to evaluate how much I completed and how much was left. There is no mile marker on the trail, so it helped that I new approximately how far I was from the next water station and from the finish. I had asked the race director ahead of time for the location of the water stops. His measurement did not match my Garmin, the first water stop was almost 1 miles further away than what he said, but it was good enough to get a rough idea.

I also looked at the results from previous years. I looked up the name of some of the finishers and looked up their time at a local 10 miles road race to compare with my training time. Based on that I was expecting to run for just about 4h but I apparently underestimated myself. I had calculated the average pace needed to finish in 4h and my Garmin was consistenly display a faster average pace and that was encouraging. I may run without computer in the future but for my first distance race it was a great psychological help.



Recovery:

After the race I drank some more water and Nuun, ate 1 Larabar, 1 hot dog and went home for a 'normal' day. I should have planned a recovery meal, maybe a recovery shake for just after the race or for later that day. The next day I went for a short run and was fine. 2 days later I had 1 sore spot on 1 leg. The soreness lasted for several days and I worried but considering my lack of training on hills I don't think it was bad. Maybe some Ibuprofene would have helped? I always forget that drugs can sometimes be useful.





Good luck with your training, and your races. Be sure to keep posting your progress and experience.
 
Abide,I love your idea of

Abide,

I love your idea of varying the training conditions. I particularly like the idea of have 2 long runs the same week and taking a weeks off, and varying the speed, time and terrain.
 
Definitely get a training

Definitely get a training lpan and stick to it. I know Jason R. has a marathon plan in his book thats i believe 20 weeks long but it starts with only like 5 mile long runs.

I am in the same boat as you. I am doing a 50k in end of Sept. or beginning of Oct. idk which yet. My longest run is 14 miles due to my training and you just have to relax and get all the quirks and problems worked out in your long runs.
 
Thanks so much for all the

Thanks so much for all the input guys! Sloutre - you rock!! Sounds like you had a great half marathon. That's so cool that you beat your estimated time.

As for training - Um. This is where I'm a bit nervous, but I'm trusting that it will work for me because I have trust in the person who is helping me.

I hired a strength and conditioning coach last February to evaluate my running and help me through some IT band and achilles issues I was having. He's very knowledgeable in minimal/barefoot running and has not only helped me dial in my form, but has helped me increase my mobility and flexibility which seems to be key. I tell him the races I want to race and he programs my workouts to fit those goals (I like to call them "workovers" because that's really what they are).

The training I'm doing is very different from your typical marathon training plan. It involves a lot of mobility work, high intensity training and a lot of weight lifting (deadlifts, bench presses.. etc.) along with biking, kayacking and some running (I'm currently training for a small run-bike-kayak triathalon). So at the moment I don't do a huge amount of long runs, although I know he has an 8 mile trail run planned for me coming up soon. I seem to be doing a LOT of squats, rowing, lifting, burpees, lunges, pull-ups and push-ups. So far, I feel a huge difference in my core strength and hoping this will help my endurance as well. He's an ultra-runner himself and uses this kind of approach when training for his long endurance runs. I've never trained for a marathon so I don't know any different. From what I understand, its possible to train this way and never have to run farther than 12 miles for training. Seems crazy to me, but I'm willing to give it a shot.

Has anyone else used crossfit or other type of high intensity interval training to train for a marathon or ultra?
 
I think the 12/13 mile long

I think the 12/13 mile long run philosphy promoted by Crossfit endurance for marathon training is a bad idea, I'm not sure they are even suggesting it anymore, I could be wrong though.

I am totally down with crossfit training, but I would highly recommend throwing some "real" long runs in there too.
 
I have no real experience in

I have no real experience in the marathon distance but I think that doing a few real long runs not only gives you the physical preparation you need but more importantly mentally prepares you for a full day of exercise and for the mental challenge to keep going hill after hill after hill.

The triathlon may give you the sense of what it is to exercice for 6-7h but it still might be a challenge to do the same activity, running, for such an extended period of time. You need to get into that specific rythm where time doesn't count and you can keep going forever. Personnaly, I would feel more confortable with a 20 mile run under my belt before tackling a trail marathon.
 
I'm not sure what he has

I'm not sure what he has planned for me, but it sounds like he will be programming longer runs for me just so that I will have the confidence to complete them, but I don't think I will be doing them very often. The interval training is in lieu of my shorter runs. I've done the triathalon before (its a sprint-ish tri), but the run is going to be totally different. The tri took me around 3 hours and after seeing the average times for the runners on this marathon course it looks like its around a 5-6 hour trail run. I totally agree that I would feel better with a long 20 miler. I want to know how my feet will hang.
 
Yeah I personally think only

Yeah I personally think only doing interval training and long runs would be adequate. It really depends on what you are shooting for, but it sounds like you just want a solid finish. So your plan should work out just fine.

Now if you want to be the fastest you can be, then you will have to focus on running more. There really isn't any way around it.
 
I think going 12/13 miles in

I think going 12/13 miles in training is a bad idea.. my training has me going 35 miles for a 31 mile race. I would feel more comfortable with that because then you know what to expect. An idea I learned a while ago, the way you practice is the way you play!
 
sloutre wrote:Keep posting

sloutre said:
Keep posting your trainings on DM, it's really interesting and I'll be learning from it.
Definitely. Daily Mile has been a great way to track my training.

I think a lot of my previous running issues were due to muscle imbalance and not enough strength or mobility in some areas so this type of training is really working so far. I just want to see if I can complete and enjoy the marathon injury free (haven't ran injury free in years). I'm not competitive about it.
 

Support Your Club

Natural Running Center

Forum statistics

Threads
19,122
Messages
183,505
Members
8,693
Latest member
kmeiners11