I want more speed

Sid

Barefooters
Jan 1, 2011
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Florida
Perhaps akin to Roy Batty's desire for more life, or rather The Bruce Dickinson's want for more cowbell, I want to go faster. I think I've got more in me. I want to get my time down a little more, then do some local 5k's barefoot to represent.

I'm down to 22:45, but I think I'm running inefficiently. I get tired and each mile is slower. I also develop a small abrasion on each foot during my faster runs, which results in a superficial small flap of skin about 1-2mm by 1cm wide. I'm probably pushing off or pawing back or something.

I'm guessing these abrasions occur because I'm transferring too much energy during the wrong point of contact. The forces would be most evenly distributed when surface area is maximal, such as when the whole foot is on the ground. This would also minimize abrasions.

I've been reading about form, the knees, the arms, springiness, and watching these guys run the 5000m.
Efficient Running
The Biomechanics of Running
The Science of Running

In general, it appears that the feet and lower legs should be springs, because they just don't have the muscle for driving. It seems that hip extension is where the power should be delivered. This also appears to be when the whole foot is touching the ground. In addition, the gluts are among the largest muscles in the body.

This all sounds good in my head, but I'll need to try it out. Any thoughts?
 
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Oh, and here I thought you meant, "speed"...haha.

Well, as someone who is not very fast, I can only tell you that I get those same issues as well. I think that you are correct that it is from pushing off, but really, there are only two ways to get faster: increase your turnover (cadence) or increase your stride length. Increasing stride length is what typically leads me to get those abrasions because you are having to grip the ground with your toes and you are pushing off with them. I have noticed that I don't have it happen as much so I've built up some pretty tough skin on the tips of my toes, but it took a while. The second option is to increase your turnover rate and take shorter steps. This can reduce abrasion, but it can also fatigue you more quickly. If your mile times are dropping significantly, I would actually recommend doing some endurace training beyond 5K. Of course, it depends on how you are running. When I think I am running inefficiently, I just go back to focusing on the basics...well, I don't know that these are "the basics" as I haven't read how to barefoot run or had anyone teach me...body upright and slightly forward and keep your feet under you as much as possible. If they are in behind or in front of me, then I notice that I tend to be more sore and have more abrasions.

Just my experience and $0.02. Others probably have varying experiences with gaining speed.
 
Why are you waiting to run the 5ks?
I don't actually care much for races, and would just as soon run on my own, since I run in the early morning in the street when there's no traffic and it's cooler. I've done a few 5ks in shoes, before I got into shape. I'd go to check out the local running club, meet people, etc.

I'd like to have a good race when I go barefoot. Wouldn't want people to dismiss BFR and think, "Gee, he could probably run faster if he wore shoes."

I'd prefer them to think, "Gosh, he's made a decent time, even without shoes. Maybe I should look into this barefoot thing!" One could say, I'd like to put my best foot forward.
 
My personal opinion of Pose and other running methods is they're simple "how to jog" instructions.

When it comes to running fast, they don't work. In particular, it's not possible to run fast without pushing off. You need a stride of 1 1/2 meters to 2 meters to run fast without a ridiculous cadence like 240 or 300. Just picking your feet up will not achieve that.

I haven't run a 5k in a while, but I'm doing just over 4 min/k on 3k tempo runs, some fast shorter intervals and sprint work on the track. My skin used to get cut up but it simply got tougher and now even a tartan track can't hurt me. Muscle and bone was another story, the increase in pace brought a tremendous increase in stress, which it took a while to adapt to. My overall goal is to settle some unfinished business between me and the 800, but I may throw away 20 bucks on a 5k to see what I can do.
 
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Yah Sid, I agree with DN and Kozz, I think you need to give your feet more time to adjust to the faster paces. My experience has been that there is no 'transition' to barefoot running; each and every increase in pace or distance will require a period of adaptation. I pushed pace in the spring, got it down to 9mm over five miles, and have been pushing distance most of the summer, as you know. When I achieve my goal of 10 miles, I'll go back to pushing pace I think, trying to get down to 8mm over an hour's time--something like 7.5 miles, which is the distance from my house out to a local lake, around it, and back. I'll probably continue to encounter a few bumps along the way, I can see that now. The transition is over only when you achieve your performance goals and are content to maintain your barefoot running fitness at that level.

One thing you might consider is running shod one day a week to give your plantar skin more time to adapt to each fast barefoot run stimulus. I'm considering this so that I can get in an extra long run per week, but I'm not confident that I'll be able to maintain good form this way. I'll probably experiment today or sometime this week. I got a pair of Bare Access two weeks ago when I misdiagnosed my TOFP as a stress reaction in my mets, and thought a little cushioning might be therapeutic. But now that I see that the problem was in my tendons and tight lower leg muscles, I would think something like the Nike Free, with a bit of heel, might provide more relief. I'll probably just keep going barefoot, and build up more slowly. Ramble, ramble . . .

(I love what your reading by the way. Those are some of my favs as well.)
 
Okay, before this completely deviates into a skin or Pose discussion, I really wanted to explore where in the gait cycle to focus on driving the run.

Honestly, I think my skin is okay and tough enough after doing this for 2-3 years. I don't get blisters or cuts and that slight abrasion that I've described is really all I have, and only when I'm trying to go for a PR. I think it's really a form/driving issue for me, and I need to make my runs more efficient and smoother.

So, I tried driving through the hips this morning. I really tried to focus on waiting until my heels made contact with the ground before pushing though. No abrasions, and I was able to keep my form good throughout my usual 6 miles, whereas I used to start slouching at the end.

Peak Performance - "think about pushing back as hard as you can on each step. Use the buttocks and hamstrings to do so, very much the way you might push out hard from a set of starting blocks. Run from your hips"

I'm feeling like I've used some different muscles today. Definitely can tell that I've worked out the 'buttocks'. I'll try giving this new adaptation a few weeks, then go for another PR when I'm feeling plucky.
 
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Okay, before this completely deviates into a skin or Pose discussion, I really wanted to explore where in the gait cycle to focus on driving the run.

*Editing more text...*
This isn't something I consciously think about when I run, but I can definitely feel it when I'm driving well and efficiently. I'd say the drive starts about halfway through the stance phase, after landing and loading, but I'll try to confirm when I go out for a run. But I do think Kozz has a valid point about 'pushing off' being inevitable when running faster paces, and that will inevitably invite Pose enthusiasts from retorting with their Looney Tunes physics and skewed biomechanical notions, so it was probably good to get that out in the open.
 
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will inevitably invite Pose enthusiasts from retorting

Okay, before this completely deviates into a skin or Pose discussion

It seems that Pose and other styles of running appear to benefit some populations with specific interests and goals, which may or may not be the same goals as yours or mine. I'll leave my opinion at that.

Yours Respectfully,
Sid
 
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One thing you might consider is running shod one day a week
Blasphemy!

Yours Respectfully,
Sid

Honestly, I already have too many shoes as it is. Evo, Neo, Aqua Lite's which have been used 1-2 times each. Zems brand new. Cherry vibram materal: made some walking sandals, never got around to huaraches. Vibrams have been relegated to yardwork when I'm spraying pest/weed chemicals.
 
It seems that Pose and other styles of running appear to benefit some populations with specific interests and goals, which may or may not be the same goals as yours or mine. I'll leave my opinion at that.

Yours Respectfully,
Sid
Right, I agree, as coaching method it appears to have had a fair amount of success. As for the faults, you're right to just ignore them. I'll try harder to follow your example. I certainly am not up for any more sterile debates, that's for sure.
 
Koss

"""When it comes to running fast, they don't work. In particular, it's not possible to run fast without pushing off. You need a stride of 1 1/2 meters to 2 meters to run fast without a ridiculous cadence like 240 or 300. Just picking your feet up will not achieve that.""

It is usually best not to talk about a subject when you are very uneducated about it. At the moment you don't seem to understand much at all about Pose method. If you would like some info to clear up your confusion I could send you some. As for running fast speed it takes both stride length and cadence. There will also be both vertical and horizontal movement from our center of mass and whole body. As for whether or not it is most accurate to say one needs to actively push off during running is debateable. Regardless which words we use the vertical and horizontal movement happen as we run.
 
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Blasphemy!

Yours Respectfully,
Sid
I know, I can't even believe this has occurred to me as a possibility. One other shod possibility that has occurred to me is to do 440 repeats down at the local track with my pair of Bare Access, so I can run faster without worrying about the gravel. This never would've occurred to me if I hadn't accidentally bought them one day before discovering the cure for my TOFP.
 
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Honestly, I think my skin is okay and tough enough after doing this for 2-3 years. I don't get blisters or cuts and that slight abrasion that I've described is really all I have, and only when I'm trying to go for a PR. I think it's really a form/driving issue for me, and I need to make my runs more efficient and smoother.

So, I tried driving through the hips this morning. I really tried to focus on waiting until my heels made contact with the ground before pushing though. No abrasions, and I was able to keep my form good throughout my usual 6 miles, whereas I used to start slouching at the end.

Peak Performance - "think about pushing back as hard as you can on each step. Use the buttocks and hamstrings to do so, very much the way you might push out hard from a set of starting blocks. Run from your hips"

I'm feeling like I've used some different muscles today. Definitely can tell that I've worked out the 'buttocks'. I'll try giving this new adaptation a few weeks, then go for another PR when I'm feeling plucky.

Opps, I didn't see that you had added more. I just wanted to say that this describes what I feel perfectly, I think you've nailed it. You have to fully load before you can extend. And I always feel sorest in my calves and glutes after a good run.
 
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Sid,

When I run Sprint speeds I focus on my whole body releasing from balance/landing as quick ad possible and recovering my leg back under me as quick as possible to assist the speed. The only muscle soreness I get or expect is slight quad soreness from rapid acceleration and deceleration.
 
Honestly, I already have too many shoes as it is. Evo, Neo, Aqua Lite's which have been used 1-2 times each. Zems brand new. Cherry vibram materal: made some walking sandals, never got around to huaraches. Vibrams have been relegated to yardwork when I'm spraying pest/weed chemicals.
Yah, I know. I really don't need these shoes, but my kids and wife were anxious to see barefoot dad try on new sneakers, and the tags and the little plastic ring got ripped off in the process, and the packaging slightly damaged, so I can't return them to Amazon in new condition. That 80 dollars would have been much better spent on beer or wine . . .
 
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to help you with endurance try soome maf training. i just improved on a 10k last week. 6 min improvement over last year. i did the warrior dash yesterday with paraganek and kept up with him until close to the 2nd mile where it went uphill. i'm still working on getting better uphill.

it's a long process but if you put in the work you'll get the results you want.
 
to help you with endurance try soome maf training. i just improved on a 10k last week. 6 min improvement over last year. i did the warrior dash yesterday with paraganek and kept up with him until close to the 2nd mile where it went uphill. i'm still working on getting better uphill.

it's a long process but if you put in the work you'll get the results you want.
The problem with a sample of one is that you don't know if you would have made the same or greater improvements with a different method. But I trust your instinct that this is the right method for you, and probably many other runners.
 
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