How To Increase Speed

Barefoot Larry

Barefoot Larry

Barefooters
Apr 5, 2010
242
1
18
60
Ocean, NC
#1
Thanks to Barefoot Josh, I have found a way to increase speed. I will quote his technique following my input. I tried it and it works. I have decreased my 10k time to 43 minutes and my 5K to 22 minutes without any extra effort. I used to feel like I was spinning my wheels with a quick cadence. I think its like keeping the car in first gear, the engine revs high but you can't get any quicker.

Here is his Blog http://www.barefootjosh.com/?p=868

Here is Barefoot Josh Sutcliffe's Quote:

"I think I figured out something with my stride at a faster pace. Normally fast = fast cadence. But once I start getting below a 7 minute pace, my feet are spinning like crazy. I needed to find a way to make the wheel bigger without landing in front of myself. That gets thuddy. So I tried letting my foot stay on the ground for a split second longer. I didn’t push off, just let it trail behind me a bit. I was able to slow my cadence down to a 190ish cadence at a sub-7 pace. My hips felt more engaged, and my effort felt more even. Obviously, I was able to go faster, too.

So I’m about to posit an idea that detracts from basic barefoot dogma: at some point, lifting the feet as quickly as possible is inefficient. There is a quick enough. To run at a 6:30 and faster pace (for me with my legs… as opposed to someone else’s. Or someone else with my legs), I need to stride behind me, not in front of me."

Any input from other members will be appreciated. I believe this is for experienced barefoot runners who have developed the proper foot strength
 
#3
Great post, this will be an

Great post, this will be an interesting topic. I think speed is the biggest worries, concerns, and goals of barefoot runners. I have finally matched, and at times surpassed my shod speed, took me 9 months but I am there!

I totally agree with Josh and I even came to the conclusion myself that lifting the feet does not always have to be applied when it comes to barefoot running. This is really stange but reading Josh's description about leaving the foot on the ground longer is exactly what I do. If I run below a 8 minute pace, or the faster I run my cadence slows down. I also have long legs so the whole spinning the legs thing definitely does not work for me.
 
#5
 My cadence doesn't slow down

My cadence doesn't slow down at the faster paces, it stays in the 185 - 190 range mostly. My own observations and opinions for right or wrong are that you lean more to go faster while keeping the same general cadence. To do this without pushing off and to keep the right trajectory when your body springs forward takes more leg muscle on the landing itself which works the quads more, basically applying more force earlier in the stride.

Somewhere in your stride extra muscle has to be used to offset the speed to keep from crashing down forward, earlier instead of later to save the wear and tear on the feets is what I think happens. The push off late will be harder on your feet when you really get your speed going over some longer distances. I think my cadence actually will start to increase if I go fast enough but I don't often reach that speed to know where that point might be...maybe around 5 min/mile short burst of speed to pass someone.

But on the other hand you have to find what works for yourself also. You can go faster without leaning forward as much with more calf push off and many fast shod runners do that but they have no worries about roughing up their feet. I'm not really sure why you would have to slow your cadence down to do that. Your stride length is much longer than the actual distance between your feet due to the force applied on landing or push off.

Try this as a drill or if your just interested in fooling around with this idea...take a metronome and run at your normal cadence then increase your speed but keep your cadence the same. Play around with a bunch of different speeds at the same cadence... you will be adjusting stride length as you go and changing your lean and/or push off force...

These are just some thoughts of mine... just thinking about this stuff too much when actually running could screw up running form some...so I wouldn't try to do too much about this except as a drill or a little form work separate from your regular running.

I'd be interested to know if you get more foot abrasion on your new found longer stride/lower cadence.
 
#6
hmmm, I always did this when

hmmm, I always did this when running shod. I'll have to give it a shot when I'm back out on the playground.

I wonder if I went wrong when speeding up during my half when I let my feet go too far ahead of me and not behind, thus putting too much pressure on the fronts of my feet/metatarsal area. :puzzled:
 
#7
 a few points for what it's

a few points for what it's worth. leaning too far forward collapses the rib cage and limits lung expansion as well as putting stress on the core which will weaken you at an accelerated pace. leaning more at the ankles to avoid that will put undue stress on the achilles putting you at injury risk. so in my teachings i do not advocate increasing forward lean to create more speed, sorry moka.

josh has a good point by saying to let the foot stick down there for a bit as that will lengthen the stride without causing any damage. i know it's against the barefoot rules but a little push off also wont hurt you. truth is you can have a similar form to shod running if the shod runner is a forefoot striker. look at fast barefoot/minimalist runners and they reach out in front of them when they are moving. look at sprinters who wear next to nothing on their feet, sprint spikes are extremely thin, and they too reach out in front of them. it's not about what the legs are doing so much as it's about what the feet are doing. look at leiberman's video of the native running and watch just how far he reaches out in front of him but he lands mid foot and has a pretty long trail. you can have a longer stride without shoes and be ok.

i'm also going to break the rules and say i really dont care about the cadence as much and think we get too caught up on that. i've run 6 min miles with a cadence around 100. i dont like the squat down, lean forward, take a ton of steps form. i like to be tall and straight with my torso, let my legs get a good stride, and use all my little stabilizing muscles along the way. i just make sure my foot lands the way it is supposed to and the rest seems to work itself out.
 
#8
 I say just have fun and run

I say just have fun and run as fast as you want to, and let everything else take care of itself ;-)
 
#10
 nah....it's really because I

nah....it's really because I just want to BE a free spirit ;-)...I'm actually trying....if I can get to the point that I'm NOT trying....then, maybe, it will be freedom :-D.

Seriously though, I think competition with oneself is ok...but when we start comparing ourselves to others, and judging ourselves "good" or "bad" compared to other people, we fall into illness.

I just know, that when I focus on what I "think" is proper form, or focus on "being faster", or other "achievements" I loose sight of the reason behind my actions...and if that reason is anything other than enjoyment, it has no place in my life. Don't get me wrong, I'm not what the world would call a headonist...if anything I'm a mascochist...but the THING itself has to be worthwhile, and an action driven by ego, i.e. "have to win, have to be the best, have to be better than so-n-so, have to win the prize, have to be rich, have to be successful in the way that others define success"...I try to let those things go...there is a yoga principle, saying that you should give away the fruits of your labor, because it is not the fruits you are after, but the LABOR itself. If you don't enjoy the LABOR, then it's not a worth while endeavor, IMHO.

Do I want to be the fastest? Do I want to be the guy who can run the furthest? YES, I absolutely do, AND I want to do it without shoes.....without clothes....maybe wearing that med-evil razor device that straps on between the legs (no, not really)...why?? Because I want other's to see how "fast, disciplined, tough, crazy" whatever I think I WANT others to think I am....THIS tendency in MYSELF, is what I am trying to murder. And I have all this in me, so no, I am not free...not yet...but I know my shackles intimately.

So I come back to FUN...feel the truth inside of myself, without comparison...and if by that I happen to be qualitatively "better" than someone else, I hope it doesn't even register in my mind, that I can see the skill and genious of every other person running, walking, crawling beside me. Because I am sure, there is someone out there who can crawl faster than my sprint :)

Somewhat sorry for my soliloquy...this is how I get when I start in on the whiskey.



good night my barefoot friends ;-)
 
#11
Awesome post, Nate! Based

Awesome post, Nate!



Based on the barefoot runners I've watched, form variation increases with speed. If we're all running a 12 minute mile, our form looks nearly identical. As we speed up, each of us will achieve that speed using different methods. I don't think this is a bad thing. In fact, it makes teaching speed VERY difficult.



It is important to find what works for YOU versus copying what others do. Of course, there is great value in learning what others do as it gives us ideas to experiment with. Threads like this are invaluable teaching tools. Keep up the great sharing everyone!
 
#12
Thanks to the technicians for

Thanks to the technicians for your inputs. I was looking for a way to be faster, I was stuck at a certain speed, and Josh's race report gave me another alternative for running form. It is good to experiment for some variation, when you are stuck!

Thanks again for the technical input
 
#13
 I like Nate's take on this

I like Nate's take on this about running in general...its about enjoyment of running not how fast you are.

I forgot to mention the best thing that increased my speed overall was just running more miles and building a bigger running base.
 
#14
Great points all, I'm still

Great points all, I'm still trying to find my "speed form". I feel like my slow pace form is good, I've been working on that for some time. Sometimes you just feel it inside to want to go all out and run fast, but there's a balance between doing so and doing it safely. That's where I'm focusing. (well once I can start running again anyway, I'll be pokey turtle for a month or so after I'm able to start running).
 
#15
 sorry for drunk forum

sorry for drunk forum posting last night...at least it wasn't as bad as I thought it would be when I woke up this AM :), I'm glad you enjoyed my little rant, even if it was off topic...



All those pointers are very informative, and I can't wait to experiment with them once I can run again....my body and mind are so itching to get back out....but, alas, I must wait.



I did at least quell my urge to write "If you want to increase your speed, run faster."

Oh, wait, no I didn't....I just wrote it :p
 
#16
aw N3, you were swilling it

aw N3, you were swilling it up without me?? I enjoyed your ranting, it's very freespirited and light hearted indeed. You hippy you:p It's fun to read you posts because a lot of the time I feel like you take the words right out of my own mouth LOL Don't even get me started when I'm drunk.
 
#18
Of course you can say that,

Of course you can say that, Mokie. You already run a 6:00 minute pace. :cool:
 
#19
Jimmy Hart wrote:a few points

Jimmy Hart said:
a few points for what it's worth. leaning too far forward collapses the rib cage and limits lung expansion as well as putting stress on the core which will weaken you at an accelerated pace.
Click to expand...
Wouldn't this only apply if you were bending at the waist? If you lean from the ankles and the entire body stays aligned there should be no effect on the ribcage or breathing. Or am I missing something?
Jimmy Hart said:
i like to be tall and straight with my torso, let my legs get a good stride, and use all my little stabilizing muscles along the way. i just make sure my foot lands the way it is supposed to and the rest seems to work itself out.
Click to expand...
Totally like this and seems like the way I run especially when I feel fast. for me that is sub 8.
 
#20
 lava i put that in there

lava i put that in there because i see a lot of people lean at the waist and talk about leaning at the waist to get forward momentum. i also said that because i think someone else said it earlier in this post. you are right about leaning at the ankles not messing with your breathing but too much lean at the ankles causes its own set of issues so i try to warn people to be careful and not over exaggerate the forward lean.

Nice drunk writing Nate! i dont drink so if i did i'm sure i would not have sounded so coherent.
 
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