Fellowship of the Morton's Toe

Discussion in 'Health, Nutrition, Injuries & Medical Conditions' started by Nyal, Sep 30, 2010.

  1. Barefoot TJ Administrator
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    But that's what it is "also known as." In fact, if I were to have broadcasted the forum as Perineural Fibroma Talk (PF Talk--they would think it was Plantar Fasciitis), I doubt we would have as many members over there and be helping as many as we do. Sad, I know, but it's true...for the time being anyhow.

    Here's the description of the MN Talk board: Morton's Neuroma
    ****This discussion board contains information and experience about people's battles with Morton's Neuroma, both the negative and the positive.
    Morton's neuroma (also known as Morton's metatarsalgia, Morton's neuralgia, plantar neuroma and intermetatarsal neuroma) is a benign neuroma of an intermetatarsal plantar nerve, most commonly of the third and fourth intermetatarsal spaces. This problem is characterised by pain and/or numbness, sometimes relieved by removing footwear. ~Wiki

    Here's an example of one of the many posts I have shared with members at MN Talk where I try to clear this up: From my understanding, you can have either an inflamed, swollen nerve, or you can have a "neuroma" (actually, neuroma is not even the correct definition for what we are dealing with since it's not a true tumor. It was misclassified years ago, but since the term has been used for so many years, it's still referred to as a neuroma, but I digress. Here's the definition from Wiki: Despite the name, the condition was first correctly described by a chiropodist named Durlacher,[1] and although it is labeled a "neuroma", many sources do not consider it a true tumor, but rather a perineural fibroma (fibrous tissue formation around nerve tissue). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morton's_neuroma). The swollen, inflamed stage is what happens before it's called a neuroma. It becomes a neuroma when there is a scarring of the nerve sheath deforming the nerve. It's possible to treat the swollen nerve with self-treatments and other non-invasive and somewhat non-invasive treatments. I still believe, and I hope I am wrong, that a neuroma (such as what I had/have) has to be removed surgically...just with the CORRECT surgery however (reimplantation of the nerve ending into muscle after the neuroma or stump has been severed, so it does not grow back).

    I have added this to my signature over there, in case anyone looks down there, and to the main site description: Morton's Neuroma Talk
    MN Talk is the only forum dedicated to Morton's Neuroma. NOTE: Morton's Neuroma is not a true neuroma (tumor); it's a perineural fibroma (fibrous tissue formation around nerve tissue.) and was first correctly described by a chiropodist named Durlacher.)

    I do what I can.

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  2. Barefoot TJ Administrator
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    And now we have this in our main Your Story forum and Studies & Article About Studies forum, stickied to the top:

    It's NOT Morton's Neruoma you are dealing with!

    Here's the definition from Wiki: Despite the name, the condition was first correctly described by a chiropodist named Durlacher,[1] and although it is labeled a "neuroma", many sources do not consider it a true tumor, but rather a perineural fibroma (fibrous tissue formation around nerve tissue). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morton's_neuroma).

    It is also known as a nerve compression. Ask yourself, what would cause your nerve(s) to become compressed?

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    From my understanding, you can have either an inflamed, swollen nerve, or you can have a "neuroma" (actually, neuroma is not even the correct definition for what we are dealing with since it's not a true tumor. It was misclassified years ago, but since the term has been used for so many years, it's still referred to as a neuroma, but I digress.

    The swollen, inflamed stage is what happens before it's called a neuroma. It becomes a neuroma when there is a scarring of the nerve sheath deforming the nerve. It's possible to treat the swollen nerve with self-treatments and other non-invasive and somewhat non-invasive treatments. I still believe, and I hope I am wrong, that a neuroma (such as what I had/have) has to be removed surgically...just with the CORRECT surgery however (reimplantation of the nerve ending into muscle after the neuroma or stump has been severed, so it does not grow back).

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  3. Barefoot TJ Administrator
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    I do like the Formerly Known As (FKA) or Previously Known As (PKA) (ha!) too, don't get me wrong.

    Now, maybe we should turn this back over to those suffering with Morton's Toe?

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  4. Sid Barefooters

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    So, all those cases of "reversible" MN would seem to be more accurately described as nerve compression.

    Yes, back to Morton's Toe. What if MT had nothing to do with the 2nd toe and everything to do with forefoot varus, related to weakness of the big toe? Since, the 1st met isn't engaging the ground, the 2nd met smashes into the ground.

    I tell you, this guy Morton, he's nothing but trouble, naming everything after himself!
    (He does make a very nice steak, and his salt is a staple of any kitchen.)
    http://www.mortons.com
  5. Barefoot TJ Administrator
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    Nerve compression is what happens before the scarring of the nerve sheath and after it's already been set into motion though. If the nerve is inflammed or swollen, then yes, it can be reversed. It's when the scar tissue develops that you can't go back without surgical intervention...although I know two people who swear by a couple of concoctions of supplements that will eat the scar tissue away. I tried one for months, and it did nothing to help me.

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  6. Sid Barefooters

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    Found some interesting information in some podcasts from The Gait Guys.

    The Gait Guys Podcast #5 : S1E5
    Fast forward to time 39:56 http://podbay.fm/show/559864138/e/1341729000


    The Gait Guys Podcast #9: The Essex Swagger & The City Walkers
    Fast forward to time 24:30
    http://podbay.fm/show/559864138/e/1346993400


    Podcast #15: Brain Size, Gait and Evolution to Bipedalism
    Fast forward to time 41:29 http://podbay.fm/show/559864138/e/1352297080

    They also mention Forefoot varus several times. This is a thread with more information on Forefoot varus from The Gait Guys.
    http://www.thebarefootrunners.org/index.php?posts/150367
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  7. Longboard Chapter Presidents
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    I never knew until just now how traumatic to the psychological health and well being a Morton situation could be to a young female!
    At least Dr. Vladi can offer them some real hope.
    Aesthetic Toe Shortening

    Excessively long lesser toes are a relatively common deformity and typically pose a cosmetic concern for women more often than men. Commonly referred to as "Craptor toe", when the toe hangs off the edge of an open toed shoe, the most prevalent of excessively long toes is the 2nd digit, which is adjacent to the big toe. Normally, the big toe is roughly equal in the length to the 2nd and possibly 3rd, followed by the 4th and 5th to create what is known as the tip-toe parabola. A small percentage of the population suffers from a disruption of this parabola leading to this unsightly condition, as well as shoe fitting problems.

    The aesthetic appearance of the toe often leads to its own array of psychological and social issues. Imagine being ridiculed in school as a teen-ager or being embarrassed to wear open toed sandals. Young females typically become very self-conscious about their feet and tend to shy from social activities that would expose them.
    http://www.drzeetser.com/Toe-Shortening-Surgery.phtml

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  8. Sid Barefooters

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    How fortunate that we now live in an age, where fashion can precede function, and unsightly appendages can be modified!
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  9. Larry Barefooters
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    That's awesome, I'm now going to exclusively use the term "Craptor" when referring to my 2nd toes.

    Of course, when you google it, there is absolutely no reference to Craptor Toe other than Dr. Zeetser's page. In fact, the only meaning I can find for 'craptor' is a description of a certain sporting team from Toronto.
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  10. Sid Barefooters

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    Apparently, the doc doesn't read or spell check his own website.
    www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=raptor%20toe
  11. Barefoot TJ Administrator
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  12. fatboy123 Barefooters

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    Hello everyone,

    I just read this entire thread DESPERATELY looking for Nyal's picture tutorial on his Morton's Toe pad that he made, even searched all his previous posts but I could not find any, can anyone tell me how to find his pictures on the insoles that he made? (his pictures on page 4 has been removed)

    Thanking you in advance.

    Bobak.
  13. Barefoot TJ Administrator
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    Unfortunately, Fat, he never did, although I begged and begged him to do so. Sorry you spent so much time looking for it, but I hoped you gained a wealth of info about MT in the meantime. :barefoot:

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  14. fatboy123 Barefooters

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  15. OneBiteAtATime Moderator
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    My name is OneBiteAtATime (John) and I have Morton's Toe.
    "Hello OneBite."
    I ran barefoot for 13 months injury free until my exuberance and my Morton's Toe finally resulted in a stress fracture.

    I continued on a 40 mile ultra even though I was having pain in my left calf and was therefore putting WAY too much strain on my right foot. It took a few days after the event to show up as TOFP in the right and then end my running for a couple of months. Should have just taken a DNF and wen't home.... live and learn.

    The doc said, "Y'see, the human foot is a little like.... blah blah blah..... and your second metatarsal is longer than the first, so you're putting more weight on it and I'll tell you that you have at least a stress fracture in there."

    So, after months of denial that it was a problem, today I step up and request my membership in the fellowship of the Morton's Toe.

    And if we're still doing viking names: Ragnar the Relentless

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  16. Barefoot TJ Administrator
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    Welcome, Ragnar!

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  17. OneBiteAtATime Moderator
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    So.... does anyone use with sucess Nyat's Morton toe orthotic? I can't seem to find the pictures of it, but it sounds plausible.

    AND, if I use a Morton's Toe orthotic does it say that my feet actually WERE designed incorrectly and that I need a shoe or at least a "crutch"?

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  18. Barefoot Dama Barefooters
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    I am going to quickly chime in here.
    When I first was diagnosed with morton's neuroma I bought the posture control insoles to use with my work shoes and I had to admit that they did help me immensely and was the only way I could wear shoes.
    Nowadays I only wear them in my winter boots.
    I use the ultrathin without arch support.

    http://mortonsfoot.3dcartstores.com/

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  20. fatboy123 Barefooters

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    Good to hear from you John,

    My dilemma is the same as yours, I like walking barefoot around the house but now I'm uncertain if I should be doing that.

    The Pad I'm using in my shoes are okay but keeps squashing after a day or two, I think I need to find some cork material.

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