Downhill Technique

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May 13, 2010
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#1
I'm a new runner, but I remember hearing a long time ago during running attempt #3 or maybe #4 that it was the downhills, not the uphills that were rough on the knees.

At Ken Bob's seminar he also reminded us "Don't put on the brakes for the downhills"

I've taken advantage of every downhill segment at races to increase speed without increasing heart rate, and found that I naturaly increased stride length rather than cadence.

It feels good, even though I know BFR is best done with high cadence/shorter strides.

The 4 mile race I'm running Saturday bills itself as a fast course. Judging from prior year results it indeed is, with times for all ages seeming to be well faster than typical. Today I tandem biked it with my wife just to see the final 1/4 mile trail segment (yes, it was gravel and rocks, what else is new) and was amazed at what we saw! The first 2 1/2 miles is just plain old level but beat up asphalt and concrete roads, with the next 1 1/4 mile a straight-away steep downhill road!

Pedal? I put on the brakes! That final 1/4 mile gravel trail will probably start at 90 BPM or less!

So my question:

Should I just over stride that 1 1/4 mile downhill smooth pavement if it feels right, or am I going to blow something out?
 
#2
Carry some minimalist

Carry some minimalist footwear with you, and USE IT should you feel the NEED TO. There's no shame.

BTW, BKB uses very short, fast strides on the downhill.
 
#3
As to the first part of your

As to the first part of your advice, TJ, as Karen's daughter would say: "Wouldn't shoes spoil running?" Run 3.25 miles BF and then put on something for the final 1/4? Not my style.

I'll leave no visible blood after the rocky trail finish, and will be ready to start the Oshkosh break from running after that, so no prob.

The downhill is so long that I guess I'll just experiment on the fly.

Soreness afterwards is one thing, I just don't want to end up overstriding to the point that I end up faceplanting!

Will I see Hubby at KOSH?
 
#4
Yes, shoes definitely spoil a

Yes, shoes definitely spoil a good run. Very smart kid.

Give me some details about exactly where you will be at Oshkosh and your cell phone number, and I will see if he can meet up with you. [email protected]

What are you flying into Oshkosh, who are you flying with, and how long will it take to get there?
 
#5
Incoming!

Incoming!
 
#6
I don't know if this applies

I don't know if this applies to gravel, but I know my form and efficiency are about a THOUSAND times as good when totally bare and bombing the downhills as when shod, even when very minimalistically shod. It's actually where barefoot really gains me some time over distance. It's gonna be my secret weapon someday (currently SW is the uphills).
 
#7
Don't overstride if you can

Don't overstride if you can avoid it. In fact, make your stride even shorter, bend your knees, and quicken your cadence. Your legs end up looking like the RoadRunner, but it really does work. There is a thread here somewhere about how to run downhills and it really worked for me. DH was a real challange for me when i first started as I always felt I was putting on the brakes.

Overstriding downhills and the pain it caused me were one of the reasons I made the switch to minimalist running.
 
#9
I have alot of hills in my

I have alot of hills in my area and had no choice but to find a comfort zone and mastered the art of downhill barefoot running.

I ran half marathon a few weeks ago and I was really amazed how much breaking action happens to people running shod. I was a shod runner for many years and now that I run barefoot I noticed alot of different things in shod runners, that before I didn't.

You can't be cautious when going downhill barefoot, you need to let it rip. I find that if you are cautious running barefoot downhill you throw off your mechanics, and you can possibly injury yourself. Definitely avoid over-striding on downhills! You want to concentrate more on candence, short strides, and knee bending. Breaking in shoes is easy, but not barefoot. You have to have confidence in yourself and just let gravity take you and don't fight it.

Increase your cadence, and keep up with the flow of your feet. Lean in a little to completely keep the weight on the forefoot, this will avoid any heel pounding. Keep your torso aligned with hips just like you are running on a straight away, but lean in a little with the hips. Its like you have a rope tied around your wasted and someone is at the bottom of the hill pulling you down. Another little tid bit I found that helps is lower your arms a little below the waste, not completely straight, and move them out a bit, this acts like a stabalizer. Also keep your head aligned with your chest and hips, sometimes i tuck my chin in a little, this keeps everything strong and tight.





Good luck on the race!
 
#11
I'll have fun with it, the 1

I'll have fun with it, the 1 1/4 mile downhill to the start of the 1/4 mile gravel trail is part of the parade route, with plenty of spectators.

I'll try all of your suggestions and will be sure to keep the crowd entertained!

Maybe I'll take the hand splaying/arm lowering too far and actually curtsy.

The hip rocking thing should keep them amused as well.

Race starts 9:00 am, I'm shooting for 36:20 for this four miler, I think I'll skip the water after the finish and go straight for the Bud Select 55.

It's a good beer for 9:37 a.m.
 
#12
Ha!  A beer run!Silly, we

Ha! A beer run!

Silly, we need a video of that.
 
#15
Do folks here talk Chi

Do folks here talk Chi Running? Danny Dreyer says uphill you should put some extra effort into your upper body, downhill you put more into your lower body. The way he works that out, your elbows are bent 90 degrees on level ground, bent more going uphill and bent less going downhill.

I scare myself how fast I go downhill. My cadence increases a lot - maybe too much.
 
#16
 About cadence, sprinters

About cadence, sprinters usually keep above 240 so there's a lot of room to increase it. I remember an interview with Carl Lewis where he mentioned that he always took 42 steps over a 100 meter race, this would mean a cadence of 250-255 and I don't think it was the cadence that made him exceptional...
 
#17
Thanks everyone!Utilizing

Thanks everyone!

Utilizing the downhill advice y'all contributed today's 4 mile race yielded:

Lifetime PR distance.

Lifetime fastest pace in anything over 1 mile (9:02)

Ooohs & Aaahs from the parade watchers.

And last but not least from another runner: "Do you have a blog I can read on-line?"

Had to break it to him: " I've met Ken Bob, I've ran with Ken Bob, Sir, I'm no Ken Bob"

I refered him to Jason's book instead.

Ended up going with plain 'ol water for post race recovery after all, but moved on to Landshark Lager once we got home.

Who would have thunk I would ever have found so much enjoyment in running.

Gotta thank you TJ, Dama, Jason, Art, and Shacky once again as well as all the rest of you BFRunners.

I don't enjoy being passed by another runner any more than the rest of you do, but one guy today said as he glided effortlessly by: "You do realize that YOU ARE the parade, don't you? Every single person on the street is pointing at you!"
 
#18
Oh my God, we're unleashed a

Oh my God, we're unleashed a MONSTER!

How do we get him back in his cage? HELP!
 
#19
Barefoot TJ wrote:.... a

Barefoot TJ said:
.... a MONSTER! How do we get him back in his cage?
Click to expand...



At a race a few weeks ago a guy yelled out "You're an ANIMAL!"

I took it as a compliment, but then again.........
 
#20
don't break, just down shift

don't break, just down shift ;)
 
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