Don't shorten your stride!

I found this explanation of proper form to be very thorough and easy to understand:
http://www.scienceofrunning.com/2010/08/how-to-run-running-with-proper.html

I agree with much of what he says but his opening line kinda diminishes his credibility along with a few points I would described differently )

I would be interested in reading your descriptions if you have time.

he is very credible yet very scientific and therefore a little hard to understand.

I think basically he says the same thing that Dr. Cucuzzella says (and shows) in his video, but in greater technical detail. I found it interesting because it seems to be a convincing argument that there really is a proper form, although there are different ways of cuing it. This was a big part of the above discussion. This makes sense based on my limit knowledge and practice of other athletic activities. It also seems to support the notion that many of us may already have decent technique without thinking about, as the mind/body are great at optimizing biomechanics through proprioception and sub-conscious adjustments. I also found it interesting that the return phase is mainly reflexive, so advice to lift or drive our knees is probably limited in its effectiveness, and may even hinder good form. Good form is mainly about landing properly and extending the hip properly, according to Magness.

ya he uses a lot of jargon and it's a little difficult to read through. i have a hard time with the hip extension. when i do it it's great but puts me way above my maf pace even though it's so effortless.

Barelee,

His ideas and descriptions are indeed very similar to Mark cucuzzella. Both of them have a view and description of a power model of running rather than a gravity model of running. This perspective is why I disagree with their description and teaching of running. Physics of running isn't the problem. It is peoples understanding of how physics works that is the main detriment to ones efficiency and the teaching if it. In my opinion of course.

Bare Lee wrote "It also seems to support the notion that many of us may already have decent technique without thinking about, as the mind/body are great at optimizing biomechanics through proprioception and sub-conscious adjustments."

Hence the role of real BF running to maximize the powerful feedback systems. I'd think that this effect would be especially critical in the learning phase of form development.
(I wrote this after having read only the last page of comments....I should have read the other 150. My comment is multiply redundant, but sincere.)

Although I'm not a Maf practitioner, I find I also enter into a more anaerobic zone when I try Dr. Mark's knee drive cue, or Magness's hip extension cue. So I've started doing some interval stuff, along with my hills stuff, so that I can run a bit faster from time to time. I can hardly wait until I can consistently run 7-to-8-minute miles.

Yah, I know that the gravity model and endorsement of the forward lean is what sets your Pose school of thought apart. I'm not in a position to criticize, but Magness's and Cucuzzella's description makes more sense to me, from my extremely limited, just-beginning-to-think-about-proper-form, high-school physics, and amateur sports perspective.

Yah, and that's in line with Jason's evolving view that it's not so much about BF as it is about BF form. BFR is the royal road to getting there, but competitive shod runners like Magness have been teaching proper form for years. On another page he pooh-poohs high volume running, and argues that no modern, competitive runner would only do that and avoid higher intensity work. It's all about finding a proper mix. And I have to say, after just 5-6 weeks of working hills into my weekly routine, I'm already starting to notice some benefit (along with sore glutes). On today's run I'm going to do some faster blocks towards the end.

Perhaps with more thought and experienced practice you will share my perspective. Given my experience and thought over many years it is very doubtful that I will go back to following a power model. Been there done that. I certainly enjoy talking to people in your position as it helps me as a coach to understand how people think and learn.

Sore Glutes?? To me that would mean I am over working and mis-timing the function of my Glutes in running.

I appreciate your being open to the thoughts of a recreational runner. For me, it boils down to this:

Magness is coaching with Salazar now, has a Masters in Exercise Science, and works with some of those top guys up in Oregon; Cucuzzella has considerable experience as well, both as a doctor, sub-elite marathoner, and barefoot runner; and you're a two-time NCAA All-American in Track and Field, a two-time Olympic Trials qualifier in the 1500m, and also coach.

So who do I listen to? From my limited knowledge and experience, the criticisms of the gravity / Pose model make sense, and Magness's description and explanation of the science of running make sense. When I watch elite sprinters or marathoners in slo-mo video, they are erect when running at a constant pace (not accelerating). That's what I'm going on when I decide not to try to incorporate the Pose lean into my own plodding.

I think the simplest explanation for the sore glutes is the fact that I've recently taken up hill running. According to Google Maps, the hill I run up is .2 miles, and I run up it a lot faster than my normal pace. After another month or two of working more high-intensity runs into my weekly routine, I would imagine the soreness will dissipate or disappear, same as with anything new. If the soreness persists, I will entertain your hypothesis.

It'll get better Lee. I run hills a lot and do repeats every week up hills and it kicks your butt at first but as with most exercise, once your body gets used to it the pain goes away.

Thanks for the encouragement Nick. The soreness is actually kind of pleasant, and I'm working into it gradually (one of the few benefits to aging is learning patience). I did a single rep dip x 3 for the first time in years this week too, now that my left shoulder has been healed for a few months, and that also lead to some pleasant soreness in my pecs and shoulder blades. In another 6-12 months I should be close to the fitness I enjoyed before letting myself get out of shape in 2005 or so. What's your routine by the way?

One day a week now I am doing as a pure speed day after my warm up. I go as fast as I can sustain for a mile. Then I cool down with a mile walk. The next day I ride the bike and do intervals on it. The third day I do hill repeats running totaling about 3-4 miles. I don't try to kill myself up the hills but I do try to keep a decent pace. Fourth day I am back on the bike and then the fifth day is my longer slow maf paced run. I also go to the gym and lift weights 3 days a week and I just added in doing the bike recently. We'll see how it goes adding it in, but so far I already feel better than just resting on those days in between runs.

Barelee,

'''''' When I watch elite sprinters or marathoners in slo-mo video, they are erect when running at a constant pace (not accelerating). That's what I'm going on when I decide not to try to incorporate the Pose lean """""

Based on the above comment you seem to be confused as to what the lean consists of as describeb by Pose Method. What particular literature have you read in order to understand leaning/falling in Pose Method?

Good luck with the continued experimentation. I just hate it when I have to say I told you so......... )