Concurrent Strength Training & Running 2015: Eight-Week Workout Cycle III

Funny how a week ago I was all gangbusters about new ST PRs. Now I'm craving more overall fitness first, PRs second . . .

hmm... with all the cravings and weird body issues, maybe it's one of those things that will resolve itself in 9 months.... ok, so maybe *you're* not likely to be pregnant, but my brother did have sympathetic morning sickness worse than his wife had the real thing, so maybe you should ask your sweetie if there's something she hasn't told you yet. :)
 
Pretty happy I can get back on a few lifts even though my capacity is about 50%. I can't do any pressing and benching yet. On Wed I am going to work on the bar for the press and bench. I think I might need to shift to a wide grip initially as that is more comfortable right now. Holding the bar in the squat is tough and the weight on my shoulders is painful but bearable.
Sounds like you're on the mend. That's great!
I'm starting to feel a bit better too. I may even lift a little on Friday, just to get primed for next week.
hmm... with all the cravings and weird body issues, maybe it's one of those things that will resolve itself in 9 months.... ok, so maybe *you're* not likely to be pregnant, but my brother did have sympathetic morning sickness worse than his wife had the real thing, so maybe you should ask your sweetie if there's something she hasn't told you yet. :)
Yah, we have a traditional men's hut set up on the yard's periphery whenever I'm feeling sympathetic.

Hey one question: you run most days, sometimes twice a day. Is it something you've worked up to, or have you always felt it works for you to run so much?
 
Sounds like you're on the mend. That's great!
I'm starting to feel a bit better too. I may even lift a little on Friday, just to get primed for next week.

Yeah, benching, pushups and pull ups are still pretty much out. I did some oh presses with the landmine and those were ok at low weight on the right side. I tried curls and could only manage the bar.
The trap bar has been a life saver, I was able to load 125kgs on it for 3 sets of 3 reps. Regular DL grip is too much after 100kgs still. I skipped squats too since they also cause some pain. I can do some lighter rows on the right side too.
I have to say I have become insanely weaker in a couple of weeks of no lifting. I thought it would be at least 3-4 weeks before I started noticing? Weird how that works.
Weight is pretty much stagnant. I quit drinking beer, eating candy etc.. for the week and nothing is budging.
I really hope I can get on a normal schedule for week 20.

Glad to hear you are feeling better too! Hopefully the second half of this cycle will treat us nicely!
 
Yeah, benching, pushups and pull ups are still pretty much out. I did some oh presses with the landmine and those were ok at low weight on the right side. I tried curls and could only manage the bar.
The trap bar has been a life saver, I was able to load 125kgs on it for 3 sets of 3 reps. Regular DL grip is too much after 100kgs still. I skipped squats too since they also cause some pain. I can do some lighter rows on the right side too.
I have to say I have become insanely weaker in a couple of weeks of no lifting. I thought it would be at least 3-4 weeks before I started noticing? Weird how that works.
Weight is pretty much stagnant. I quit drinking beer, eating candy etc.. for the week and nothing is budging.
I really hope I can get on a normal schedule for week 20.

Glad to hear you are feeling better too! Hopefully the second half of this cycle will treat us nicely!
Sounds like neutral grip works best, which makes sense. That's the grip I've used to help alleviate pressure on my shoulder during pulling.

Yah, I think more than a week out, and you start to lose some gains. I'm thinking of bringing everything down five pounds when I start lifting again and add a little volume. Basically, use the shingles to experiment more with the volume approach.

I've lost 5-8 pounds over the last week. I don't have much of an appetite yet, but I wonder if that's more lack of exercise than illness.

I'm pretty sure I'm going to sub dips and pullovers for the bench press on Wednesday's 8RM day, and then LM Twist, Back Extensions, and Loaded Carries for the Deadlift on the same day. That way, I'm only doing my heaviest lower and upper body lifts on the two days that really matter, the 5RM day, and the 1-3RM day. I may also sub the OH Squat for the Back Squat, and the Arnold Press for the OH Press on that day. I'll keep everything 8RM though. I guess this will be the experiment for this cycle. If I don't like it, I can always go back to the original plan, which was getting good results.
 
Hey one question: you run most days, sometimes twice a day. Is it something you've worked up to, or have you always felt it works for you to run so much?

i guess it is something i have worked up to in the sense that i wasn't running at all three years back. but, the idea is that abide is making me look bad, so i'm trying to crank up the miles. :) it's really hard to get the miles in unless you're running 6 days a week. and i usually don't have big blocks of time available, so i always end up running as fast as i can while avoiding suffering (i.e., i don't run slow on purpose unless it is because i'm not feeling good). if i can squeeze in an extra run, sometimes i do it (or i'm taking the kiddies out or whatever). i was on travel a couple weeks back and thus had different scheduling/responsibility constraints, so i really emphasized the increased mileage and frequency.

obviously, there is some slowing down at the front end, but ultimately i'm anticipating both speed and distance gains. a 5.5 mile route now feels roughly like (or easier than) a 3.6 mile route did 9 months ago.

and i guess, counterintuitively, that i feel like it requires less discipline to try to run every day than it does to have a plan. if you miss a run and you had only 2 or 3 in the plan, you have a major setback. if you run only 5 instead of 6 times: bummer, but no big deal.
 
i guess it is something i have worked up to in the sense that i wasn't running at all three years back. but, the idea is that abide is making me look bad, so i'm trying to crank up the miles. :) it's really hard to get the miles in unless you're running 6 days a week. and i usually don't have big blocks of time available, so i always end up running as fast as i can while avoiding suffering (i.e., i don't run slow on purpose unless it is because i'm not feeling good). if i can squeeze in an extra run, sometimes i do it (or i'm taking the kiddies out or whatever). i was on travel a couple weeks back and thus had different scheduling/responsibility constraints, so i really emphasized the increased mileage and frequency.

obviously, there is some slowing down at the front end, but ultimately i'm anticipating both speed and distance gains. a 5.5 mile route now feels roughly like (or easier than) a 3.6 mile route did 9 months ago.

and i guess, counterintuitively, that i feel like it requires less discipline to try to run every day than it does to have a plan. if you miss a run and you had only 2 or 3 in the plan, you have a major setback. if you run only 5 instead of 6 times: bummer, but no big deal.
Thanks for the feedback. I'm back to thinking daily aerobic might be the way to go, first thing in the morning. We'll see if I actually follow through on it. In the meantime, might try walking later today or tomorrow.
 
Sounds like neutral grip works best, which makes sense. That's the grip I've used to help alleviate pressure on my shoulder during pulling.

Yah, I think more than a week out, and you start to lose some gains. I'm thinking of bringing everything down five pounds when I start lifting again and add a little volume. Basically, use the shingles to experiment more with the volume approach.

I've lost 5-8 pounds over the last week. I don't have much of an appetite yet, but I wonder if that's more lack of exercise than illness.

I'm pretty sure I'm going to sub dips and pullovers for the bench press on Wednesday's 8RM day, and then LM Twist, Back Extensions, and Loaded Carries for the Deadlift on the same day. That way, I'm only doing my heaviest lower and upper body lifts on the two days that really matter, the 5RM day, and the 1-3RM day. I may also sub the OH Squat for the Back Squat, and the Arnold Press for the OH Press on that day. I'll keep everything 8RM though. I guess this will be the experiment for this cycle. If I don't like it, I can always go back to the original plan, which was getting good results.

That sounds like a plan, and if you need to skip a session you can always sacrifice this one.
 
That sounds like a plan, and if you need to skip a session you can always sacrifice this one.
Yah, Wendler would call it the 'bodybuilder' day of his 5/3/1 program, but I'm thinking of it as more of a ROM variation day, with perhaps a little plyometrics thrown in:

Monday –5RM
Squat: 5/5/5/5/5
TK OH Press: 5/5/5/5
Deadlift: 5/5/5
Bench Press: 5/5/5
N Pulldown: 5/5/5
Pendlay Row: 5/5/5
1DB Row: 5/5

Wednesday –8RM
OH Squat: 8/8/8/8 (Squat Sub)
Arnold Press: 8/8/8 (OH Press Sub)
Back Extensions: 8/8/8 (Deadlift Sub)
LM Twist: 8/8 (Deadlift Sub)
Loaded Carries/Shrugs: 8/8 (Deadlift Sub)
Dips: 8/8 (Bench Sub)
Pullovers: 8/8 (Bench Sub)
Curls: 8/8 (Pendlay Sub)
CG N Pulldown: 8/8/8
Cable Row: 8/8/8

Friday– 1-3RM
Squat: 1/1/2/2/3/3/3
TK OH Press: 1/2/3/3/3
Deadlift: 1/2/3/3
Bench Press: 1/2/3/3
S Pulldown: 3/3/3
Pendlay Row: 3/3/3
1DB Row: 3/3
 
well, this seems to be the adventure phase of training, huh? shingles, clobbered collarbones, etc. i am trying to cut back my mileage this week to avoid the dreaded stress fractures or whatever evil is supposed to befall those who run around too much. i have a tiny silly feeling in my left foot that i haven't figured out what it is. it is probably just a tendon doing something. it disappeared yesterday, only to reappear in the evening. i am conflicted as to what to do since my previous experience has been that i've never had a problem with my feet that couldn't be solved by upping the mileage. of course, i'm sure there is some problem out there that can't be solved that way (accidental amputation, for example: it is unlikely to regrow the foot, at least). i guess we'll see how stupid i am later today when it comes time to run or not run.
 
well, this seems to be the adventure phase of training, huh? shingles, clobbered collarbones, etc. i am trying to cut back my mileage this week to avoid the dreaded stress fractures or whatever evil is supposed to befall those who run around too much. i have a tiny silly feeling in my left foot that i haven't figured out what it is. it is probably just a tendon doing something. it disappeared yesterday, only to reappear in the evening. i am conflicted as to what to do since my previous experience has been that i've never had a problem with my feet that couldn't be solved by upping the mileage. of course, i'm sure there is some problem out there that can't be solved that way (accidental amputation, for example: it is unlikely to regrow the foot, at least). i guess we'll see how stupid i am later today when it comes time to run or not run.
Are you rolling your foot and lower leg muscles? I tend to be skeptical of the 'stress fracture' diagnosis. Could be tight muscles pulling on sore tendons. Only use amputation as a last resort.

One nice thing about not working out is that my obsession with strength theory has all but dried up. It was happening anyway, but this seems to have put a cap on it.

Today I got more painful itching after a relatively good day yesterday. Trying to decide if I should man up and get a workout in later, or keep the resources focused on fighting the virus back down to the nerve root, where it belongs.
 
i'm not doing any rolling or anything like that. i'm pretty sure it isn't a stress fracture, though. and it isn't even bothersome. it doesn't slow me down or anything. just, my mind wants to be careful because of all the horror stories i've seen.

i shortened my workout a bit tonight, but since i "turned" my big compost pile, that counts as some sort of deadlift-like functional cross training, right?

maybe instead of lifting weights, you should go running (or shuffling) for a mile or so just to get the blood moving and all that. then do super easy loads for a couple days and ramp things back up slowly. that is my baseless speculation.
 
i'm not doing any rolling or anything like that. i'm pretty sure it isn't a stress fracture, though. and it isn't even bothersome. it doesn't slow me down or anything. just, my mind wants to be careful because of all the horror stories i've seen.

i shortened my workout a bit tonight, but since i "turned" my big compost pile, that counts as some sort of deadlift-like functional cross training, right?

maybe instead of lifting weights, you should go running (or shuffling) for a mile or so just to get the blood moving and all that. then do super easy loads for a couple days and ramp things back up slowly. that is my baseless speculation.
I think yardwork usually tends more towards conditioning than strength training, but from the functional cross-training angle I think you might be right. I like the way yardwork is easier when you've been doing strength training, I'll say that much.

Someday I would like to try functionless training while following an inorganic diet.

Baseless speculation is the meat and potatoes of sports commentary, so I can't fault you there. And in fact I did try some light loads yesterday, and fully intend to get some shuffling in before it rains later today. You sensed correctly, in still other words; it's time to get my a$$ in gear. The discomfort is manageable now, or I'm just getting used to it, and my energy levels are pretty much back to normal, and the muscle below the stinging skin feels fine and is barking at the door to be let out for some exercise. This is a weird disease. I'm pretty much over it, but the nueralgia could linger for weeks. Since this attacks mostly people 50 and older, I'm proud to claim my first aging-related illness. It's funny, I was feeling a little rejuvenated after making decent strength gains last cycle, then your god mocks my pride with a sneak-preview of my inevitable mortality.
 
Glad to hear your feeling better Bare Lee.

Haven't had a chance to post an update recently. All i have is my phone. I'll put an update up on Monday. Shoulders getting a little better and Im looking forward to lifting to full capacity soon. Well maybe not for the presses.
 
Glad to hear your feeling better Bare Lee.

Haven't had a chance to post an update recently. All i have is my phone. I'll put an update up on Monday. Shoulders getting a little better and Im looking forward to lifting to full capacity soon. Well maybe not for the presses.
Thanks, the places that hurt the most are the ones that are the reddest, so hopefully when the rash has completely cleared up the pain will be gone too. My biggest concern is the longlasting neuralgia that some people experience. I can deal with this for another week or so, but it would be a real drag if it dragged on for months or years. Right now I'm just taking Iburprofen and experimenting with different kinds of creams. Lanacane seems like the best so far.

Sounds like you're rehabbing well. It's funny how this time off has changed my perspective a bit. But then yesterday when I started to feel my strength returning, I started to get the PR Jones again. It would be great to start breaking Deadlift and Squat PRs sometime this summer.
 
Yeah on my ride today I was pondering what to do once Leadville is done. And I kept thinking about thay 1000lb total. Not sure if it can happen though with my shoulder amd benching but I think I might try to make it happen.

I'm a little frustrated I dnf'd my second stage of the mountain bike race I was doing. I finished 6 minutes too late. Bummer. Oh well its great training for the leadville mtb 100 I guess. F'n Ardennes.
 
Yeah on my ride today I was pondering what to do once Leadville is done. And I kept thinking about thay 1000lb total. Not sure if it can happen though with my shoulder amd benching but I think I might try to make it happen.

I'm a little frustrated I dnf'd my second stage of the mountain bike race I was doing. I finished 6 minutes too late. Bummer. Oh well its great training for the leadville mtb 100 I guess. F'n Ardennes.
It's kind of fun, like a side bet. I'm mostly chasing PRs on individual lifts, but it's nice to see the total rise too. It's programmed to go up five pounds each week. Seems like I should have the OH Press accounted for too though, but powerlifters made the mistake of taking it out of competition.

I think as long as you can work on your deadlift and squat, then the bench will probably be there for you when you're all healed up. I've been amazed at how I can put the bench on the back burner and still have it improve as long as I'm getting stronger on the other lifts.

I decided to stick with a slightly higher volume approach this cycle. To make sure I don't overdo it the first few weeks while I'm adapting, I've taken the 1RMs of the Deadlift and Bench Press down 10 pounds each. In keeping with building a greater ST work capacity, I'm also thinking about keeping the running strictly aerobic until I can run six miles or so continuously again, to build up my aerobic base again.

Too bad about the mountain bike race. You have a lot on your plate, so hard to do well in all three training modes. The shoulder must've bothered you too, right?
 
Yeah I read this over the weekend and I'm considering adding some volume too.
http://www.strengtheory.com/the-new-approach-to-training-volume/
I think right now I may just add the volume for the upper lifts since I have to drop weight on everything anyway. Then maybe next cycle I can add it to squats and the TBDL or something?
Sounds like a plan for the slow buildup for running. Going slow has worked well for me for running and biking. Or at least made it more consistent and less injurious.

Oddly enough the shoulder hardly bothered me other than a few errant bumps. I was slow mainly the hills climbs as I was doing a lot of hiking and biking, and a few crazy ass descents that I also hiked. I guess I finished the race I just timed out on the last two stages which had 8 hour cut offs. In hindsight I should have put a bigger sprocket on so I could have climbed some more of the hills in the saddle. To be honest though I didn't enjoy the long distance riding thing as much as I like riding more smooth and flowy tracks and trails. It was a great experience even though I was way over my head in distance and technical terrain. So likely in the future I'll keep the mountain biking to just a hobby for some shorter jaunts or some fun downhill riding on a ski hill.
 
Yeah I read this over the weekend and I'm considering adding some volume too.
http://www.strengtheory.com/the-new-approach-to-training-volume/
I think right now I may just add the volume for the upper lifts since I have to drop weight on everything anyway. Then maybe next cycle I can add it to squats and the TBDL or something?
Sounds like a plan for the slow buildup for running. Going slow has worked well for me for running and biking. Or at least made it more consistent and less injurious.

Oddly enough the shoulder hardly bothered me other than a few errant bumps. I was slow mainly the hills climbs as I was doing a lot of hiking and biking, and a few crazy ass descents that I also hiked. I guess I finished the race I just timed out on the last two stages which had 8 hour cut offs. In hindsight I should have put a bigger sprocket on so I could have climbed some more of the hills in the saddle. To be honest though I didn't enjoy the long distance riding thing as much as I like riding more smooth and flowy tracks and trails. It was a great experience even though I was way over my head in distance and technical terrain. So likely in the future I'll keep the mountain biking to just a hobby for some shorter jaunts or some fun downhill riding on a ski hill.
Yah, the first trick with greater volume is making sure you can still put in a good effort, as that article argues. The percentage formulas have been a good guide for that, for me. Eighty five percent of 1RM for 5RM ensures a pretty good effort, for example. That's been one of the really productive adoptions this last year--learning to calculate rep-counts (1, 2, 3, 5, 8) with the percentages (100%, 95%, 90%, 85%, 75% of 1RM, respectively). Then the second trick to the volume approach, it seems to me, is to find the right balance between, or distribution among, the main lifts. I'm going with three sets as my base, then adding 1-2 extra sets of Squats and OH Press. So, compared to last cycle, I'm basically adding one set to each of my performance lifts. Once I get a good mix of total volume in sets, and distribution over lifts, all within about one hour of time, then the microloading should take care of the rest. I think for running as well, a hills/interval workout or a tempo run should last about an hour, then the aerobic run should be about 90-120 minutes. It's just a matter of building back up to that capacity.

In your case, I would still think you'd want squats to be the centerpiece of a higher volume approach. But I've probably just been brainwashed by all the squat propaganda.

Damn, I'm still wavering about whether or not to put in the assistance/variation plan on Wednesdays. It's tempting to just keep doing the same damn lifts with different rep counts each day. It's so easy that way. But I think different ROMs and angles for the same basic movements should be beneficial. Anyway, this cycle has kind of been broken up by the shingles, or, in your case, the bum shoulder, so it's a good excuse to experiment. Right now the shingles feels like someone is randomly sticking pins in me, but it tends to be focused on the spots that are still red, so I'm hopeful when those heal up, the pain will disappear too. It's pretty hard to sleep like this. I might have to do a half a pill of the narcotic they gave me, but hopefully a return to regular workouts will be enough to knock me out for 7-8 hours.

Yeh, it just occurred to me that I have virtually no aerobic base left over from my running advances in 2013. Until I can run six miles at 10mm pace, or something like that, it probably doesn't make that much sense to do hills. But I dunno. I don't think there's any extra injury risk with hills, so if I get the urge, I'll go for it. I don't think anyone has ever shown that you can't train all the energy systems concurrently. It's just a matter of what ratios will lead to the most benefit. I'm so out of shape, I might get the most benefit from just doing aerobic running for a month or two. I'm also hopeful that a better aerobic base will help me build more work capacity in lifting as I add volume.
 
Yeah keeping the lifts the same is the simple approach. But it does get boring over time, although I don't think the grass is any greener to be honest.
Thanks for making me think about pull overs. Its a chest/tricep lift I can do right now and probably wouldn't have thought about it on my own.
Sorry I didn't mean there really is any extra injury risk with running fast, its more of the wear and tear of fast running that gets to me. It leads to a lot of lower limb creakiness that I prefer to do without.
 
Yeah keeping the lifts the same is the simple approach. But it does get boring over time, although I don't think the grass is any greener to be honest.
Thanks for making me think about pull overs. Its a chest/tricep lift I can do right now and probably wouldn't have thought about it on my own.
Sorry I didn't mean there really is any extra injury risk with running fast, its more of the wear and tear of fast running that gets to me. It leads to a lot of lower limb creakiness that I prefer to do without.
Yah, after yesterday's workout, not sure how to proceed. My OH Press has become 5-10 pounds weaker with this shingles, but my squats were fine (Edit: actually, I accidentally raised the 1RM to 260, up from 250 at the end of last cycle, and they still felt fine). So maybe I should go back to what I was doing in Cycle II until I get the Press back to where it was? The eight-rep days probably help improve the lifts. Maybe I could do conventional back squats and the oh press on Wednesdays, and just find subs or variations for the bench and deadlift? Like Dips and Pullovers for the Bench, and Back Extensions, Loaded Carries, and Landmine Twists for the Deadlifts . . .

Also not sure about how to do the greater volume thing. It takes a while to get through all those sets. Yesterday I felt like crap after only sleeping four hours, so I abandoned the workout after the presses, but even on a good day, it's a lot of sets to get through:

Squats x 5
OH Press x 4
Deadlift x 3
Bench x 3
Pulldown x 3
Pendlay Row x 3
1DB Row x 2 (each hand)

Last cycle I did:

Squats x 4
OH PRess x 4
Deadlift x 2
Bench x 2
Pulldown x 3
Row x 3

On Monday/5RM Day, and that was pretty manageable.

Maybe I could keep the greater volume but put the 5RM Day at 80% instead of 85%, and the 8RM day at 70% instead of 75%? At least for the Deadlift and Bench Press? I could still keep the 1-3RM true, so there wouldn't be that much sacrifice of intensity in order to get in a little extra volume. It's just a question of which is more beneficial. Slightly greater intensity, or slightly greater volume. Probably doesn't matter too much, and the former was working pretty well last cycle . . .

Yah, pullovers have always been one of my go-to assistance lifts, even before I realized they were an assistance lift. Glad you're finding stuff that works while you wait for your shoulder to heal up. I especially like the stretch the pullovers give me. I do them as a sort of hybrid pullover/skullcrusher. I can count them as my triceps lift too, and I use the same EZBar with about the same load for biceps curls, so those two lifts together kind of takes care of my lingering sense of obligation to do something targeting the arms.

That's the beauty of hills. You don't actually go very fast, and the landing is softer, but you get similar benefits to doing sprints. Still, I like the fuller ROM of sprints once in a while. I may start doing some sprints towards the end of summer if I can actually get back into some kind of running shape by then. It's funny, for me, I sometimes feel more beat up from longer aerobic runs. The higher reps kind of get my legs all wound up tight. I need to take stretching breaks.