PF and new shoes brooks pure flow

#21
Thanks for all your support, Jimmy.

I will do a little experiment, but first my history, although you may be bored with it by now. ;)

I have had PF three times. The first time I had it I was wearing Asics Kayanos. I stretched and wore my night splint, and it went away two months later. Then the next time I got it, I was wearing the same Asics, but I had started to go barefoot more and more, choosing to carry the shoes at the ends of my runs and finishing barefoot. I stretched and wore my night splint, but this time, I decided to ditch the shoes completely and go barefoot. The PF was gone within a month. I was happy about this. It seemed my being barefoot helped, perhaps, lessen the amount of time it took to rehab.

Then the last time I had PF, I got it indirectly from wearing shoes (MN), I stretched and wore my night splint and began rolling with a small, blue ice-football with knobby thingies. Every time I stretched I had to stop before I finished the "routine" that had worked the previous two times because the pain was so great, the blue football felt like a torture device, and I would wake up in the middle of the night having to rip the night splint off my leg because my PF was on fire. I attempted this routine about three times before I gave up swearing I will never stretch an injury again.

I have been dealing with this last bout of PF on and off (mostly on) for three years now, I think because subconsciously, I am favoring putting weight on the back of my feet instead of the forefeet where the MN was and is now redeveloping.

So this will be my experiment. I will (shiver) return to my old routine that worked two times and failed me once to try again, and after about two weeks, I will report back. Deal?

Here's the stuff I was using for PF in the past. Tell me what you think of it or if there are better models or if they are basically all the same. Mind you, I have it in both feet now, whereas the first two times it was only in my right foot.

(And sorry to hijack your thread Matt, but I figure this would help you too.)

This is the Step Stretch designed for treating PF. I am sure you are familiar with it.

PTU100
31V1SHYGEPL._SL500_AA300_.jpg


Blue football ice thingy.

heelspur-relief-kit.jpg


Night splint--which kind is better?
anteriornightsplint.jpg
and
41jGXLJ9QfL._AA300_.jpg
 
#22
TJ I have the night splint on the left (black one) which does absolutely no good for me. So just in stretching yesterday and today 3-5 times a day so far I've noticed my calves are looser than they've been in a long while. I didn't know they had gotten so tight. This afternoon I was able to walk better than I have been able to in quite a while with very little pain. I'll keep you all posted as I progress. Hopefully I can get this to go away completely this time.
 
#23
The calf is the key! TJ I have used the night splint on the left before and they worked for me but they felt awkward. The one on the right looks more stable. The key to a night splint is just that it keeps the foot from pointing the toe which shortens the calf while you're sleeping so either one should work fine for that. A night splint really isn't going to cure the issue on it's own but it definitely helps with the morning soreness issues.

I would also say forego the calf step. It's designed for shoes not bare feet. I also think it puts you into too deep of a stretch too fast and too soon without you being fully aware of that fact. Just do the basic lean against the wall with the one foot back set up. Do it two ways for the best result. First keep the leg straight while trying to keep the foot flat which will focus more on the gastroc. After you've held that stretch long enough switch sides. The switching allows the stretched muscle to reset for when you come back to it. On the second go round bend the knee a little while still trying to keep the foot flat which will now focus the stretch on the achilles tendon (this one usually hurts more so ease into it). By hitting both angles you'll get a more effective response and faster results.

I like the blue ball roller but try it without the icing. I prefer this be done without cooling because cooling can cause things to tighten up which is counter intuitive to your goals. It's good when the injury or pain first starts because it helps decrease inflammation but once the injury has become something of a long term issue the inflammation is a secondary concern and the ice can be a hindrance.
 
#24
Jimmy Hart said:
I've debated on writing something about stretching for a long time. I have not done so because I just don't want to be caught up in the controversy of it all but maybe I'll go ahead and do it. Like everything there is a balance to the practice and that is something that each individual has to find for themselves.
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Yah, I can understand not wanting to get caught up in the controversy, but I wonder if there are a few people for whom a little stretching, particularly the calves and feet, might be beneficial, but who are not doing it because they fear the schoolyard taunt of being called a 'bozo' by a web-savvy chiropractor . . .
 
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#26
Lee, I haven't really stretched for 7-8 months or so. Not since I had the calf injury in which I kept stretching it, which obviously kept it injured for a couple months. Anyhow, I think as my legs have gotten musclier not stretching has kind of bunched them up, or made them really tight which I did not realize they were tight. This morning was the easiest I've had getting out of bed in quite a while. And that's only after really making the decision to really stretch the legs the last couple days despite the slight burn on my heels. Now, there's no burning in the heels when I stretch and I can already see the range of motion difference. I've been pretty aggressive with my stretching though. Oh, and an added side effect from stretching I just realized, the shin pain I have been having is gone. Maybe classifying it as shin pain is a little vague. It was more like one tiny little spot on inside of leg right next to the shin. I'm wondering if the tight calves were pulling whatever muscle is right there really tight too? Seemed no matter how much rolling I was doing the PF would just not stay under control. Really hoping this helps.
 
#27
Nick it sounds like your tight calves were putting stress on the posterior tibialis. The muscle on the outside of your shin is the anterior tibialis and that's about all people know. most people have no idea about the posterior tib. sounds like the stretching is releasing the calcaneus which is in turn allowing the posterior tib to get back to it's normal length which in your case will be letting it tighten/shorten up.
 
#28
Jimmy, I have slept on my tummy for years and years and years. I thought maybe doing so would be contributing to my PF not healing, since my toes are pointed while I sleep on my tummy. I have been trying to sleep with my feet off the bed these past few weeks so they could flex, but find I creep back onto the bed in my sleep. Argh! Do you suppose this could be a major reason why I haven't been healing?

Matt, do you sleep on your belly too?
 
#29
NickW said:
Lee, I haven't really stretched for 7-8 months or so. Not since I had the calf injury in which I kept stretching it, which obviously kept it injured for a couple months. Anyhow, I think as my legs have gotten musclier not stretching has kind of bunched them up, or made them really tight which I did not realize they were tight. This morning was the easiest I've had getting out of bed in quite a while. And that's only after really making the decision to really stretch the legs the last couple days despite the slight burn on my heels. Now, there's no burning in the heels when I stretch and I can already see the range of motion difference. I've been pretty aggressive with my stretching though. Oh, and an added side effect from stretching I just realized, the shin pain I have been having is gone. Maybe classifying it as shin pain is a little vague. It was more like one tiny little spot on inside of leg right next to the shin. I'm wondering if the tight calves were pulling whatever muscle is right there really tight too? Seemed no matter how much rolling I was doing the PF would just not stay under control. Really hoping this helps.
Click to expand...

Cool to hear it's helping. I would be wary of 'aggressive' stretching though. Don't do anything that's really painful.

But yeah, after I read the Soc Doc's diatribe last year, I tried not stretching for a few weeks and hated it. I agree that you shouldn't stretch an injured muscle, but I think having overall flexibility is important, and I really enjoy that feeling. I have a lot of friends who swear by their yoga, which isn't really my thing, but I did used to be able to do the splits in karate and have been thinking about doing some serious stretching like that a few times a week again. Before a run I always do a quick stretch and then afterwards I like nothing better than to stick my foot up on something high and stretch out the calves and hams. Then I bend over and lay my hands down flat on the ground to get my back and shoulders too. I feel tremendously relaxed afterwards. I do agree that you shouldn't stretch too much when you're not warmed up, and that stretching a lot before a run will diminish the elastic recoil in your tendons.

And the whole 'animals don't stretch' argument is dumb. Of course they do. Plus, comparing humans with other animals is spurious. Humans have a lot greater control over their musculature than other animals do. We're wired quite differently, and are capable of adapting our bodies to a much greater extent than other animals are, not only to different climates/geographies, but also to a wide variety of activities.

I do like some of the Soc Doc's stuff, especially the way he integrates physiology, bio-mechanics, and lifestyle. But the 'stretching is for bozos' campaign is really annoying.
 
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#30
I haven't run since Wednesday, although it's raining and I am done with a test now so I may just go indulge in a wet run and burn off some stress... I wouldn't say I am stretching too the point of anything hurting, other than at first any amount of stretching made the heels burn a bit. After several times stretching during the first day that burning went away and then it just felt like a normal stretch. I do agree not to stretch an injury and not to stretch too much before a run. Anyhow, I better get out there before it stops raining. :D
 
#31
NickW said:
I haven't run since Wednesday, although it's raining and I am done with a test now so I may just go indulge in a wet run and burn off some stress... I wouldn't say I am stretching too the point of anything hurting, other than at first any amount of stretching made the heels burn a bit. After several times stretching during the first day that burning went away and then it just felt like a normal stretch. I do agree not to stretch an injury and not to stretch too much before a run. Anyhow, I better get out there before it stops raining. :D
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Have a great run Nick! I'm t-minus one hour to wine and t-bone.
 
#32
Man I love hearing how people improve and come out of injuries and issues. I think anyone with half an ounce of brains can understand flexibility is important. No sport works without it and most athletes get hurt when they don't have it. Excessive is bad but that's true in anything. I like your Karate comparison Lee.

TJ yes tummy sleeping is bad and is hindering your healing. I like to sleep on my stomach too and even in my night splints I would. It was awkward and most times my feet kicked out at weird angles but it was only temporary. Try to find a way to keep those toes from pointing at night.
 
#33
I will try, Jimmy, and I will even stretch three times per day for the next couple of weeks and report back. I hope this works, but if it doesn't, it's just par for the course for me. :(
 
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