PF and new shoes brooks pure flow

mmoore5553

Barefooters
Feb 26, 2012
219
16
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Hello again all. I am back to ask some questions and see what you all think. I have been suffering PF for a long time and tried everything from specialist to rollers. I finally decided to try different shoes as the ones i had where running shoes and bulky. I started my journey to cure my feet by wearing ultra adams which was rough on me. I tried them as much as I could but still hurt my feet and the small pads was not working. I had to switch up as my PF still hurt and no improvement. I did this for 3 months. Then i switched to brooks dyad as I was told by support shoe places these had tons of support that would help my PF heal. I have worn them daily and still pain in the facial and heel.

http://www.brooksrunning.com/Brooks...100781D667.100,default,pd.html?start=1&q=dyad

6 months of wearing those shoes i thought man i have to find something out. I did find out the addias flip flops did hurt less or lets say the pain was in the heel but not so much in the middle of foot. I went out last night and bought brooks pure flow. I did this as the heel drop was lower than a normal shoe. I thought maybe lower heel i can work the muscles more in the foot area.

http://www.brooksrunning.com/on/dem...te/default/Technology-Content?cid=lightweight

Does anyone have any experience with these shoes ? Or is there any other shoes you recommend. I can wear sneakers at work. I tried merrells but they are not big enough in the toe area as I wear wide shoes . The store said they could order them in but then being special order i could not return them if there was an issue. I have 2 weeks to return these for full refund . they said after that though i would get in store credit.

Any one have any suggestions or should i keep these . I know i need more cushion than the ultra adams and less than a normal shoe. I thought the adams would work my foot muscles and then PF would go away but after months and months it did not happen. ALso when i get home i do take off my shoes and go barefoot to try to strength the muscles.
 
PF sucks and from what I understand is hard to cure for a lot of people (me included). I think it is from some imbalance from somewhere else in the body. For me, as long as I roll my legs out twice a day in addition to working out my core and upper body every week I seem to be fine. Within a couple days of not doing these things I can really notice as the PF starts to flare up again.
 
Does anyone think the new shoes i bought too much cushion ? I was looking at ultra instinct as they are lower and can work my foot and muscles more. Just wondering if anyone would think that would be better. I know the pureflow my toe box is snug not sure if it suppose to be or not.
 
I forgot to mention that the Brookes Flows are just about as bad as normal supportive running shoes. I truly believe that supportive shoes and shoes that are narrower like these are evil and should be outlawed. I also have the Adams and for some reason whenever I wear them they cause my PF to flare up also. I would not let those shoes color your view of the other mishoes out there... You said you have wide feet, which I do as well. Have you thought about the New Balance Minimus Zero Road? They have very little support, come in a 2EE size, and are zero drop with a little bit of cushion and are very comfy. I think they are just about half the total stack height as those Brookes Pure Flows.
 
Matt, if the shoes you have, have a narrow toe box, please take them back. Narrow toe boxes are one of the things about shoes that destroyed my feet.

About the New Balance Minimus Zero . It looks like there are two flavors:

mt00bk_lg.gif
Mens New Balance Minimus Zero Trail Running Shoe


AND
unnamed.jpg
Mens New Balance Minimus Zero Road Running Shoe

I have no idea if the knobby-things on the bottoms of the "trail" version would be good for your PF or make it worse. The "road" version looks right for a shoe that has less, bulky cushioning, but perhaps enough cushioning to do the job to soften the pain of PF. These make those others you bought look like you were wearing stilts. Hee. I wonder if the "road" version has that "counter" we were talking about. Can you get to a store where they have these for sale and try them out? Seriously walk around in them at the store for as long as you can without looking like a freakoid to the sales people. Just tell them you will be busy for a while, check back in 10 or 20 minutes. :)
 
I just talked to a guy at a running store and they said they had the ones above but very little cushion and then he mentioned i might like the mt10's . I am unsure as the ultra adams was too thin and needed some cushion. Any ideas. I am going to try them to run by there today and swap my shoes out.
 
The ones I copied here didn't say MT20, but those in that video do have the same knobby-things.
 
I wonder if the "road" version would be more comfy. I don't know, you would think the "trail" would have more contiguous cushioning though, and therefore might be more comfy. Whatever you do, be sure to ask for the 2EE size to ensure they will not be too narrow. And check for that counter we talked about on the correct side of the shoe.

BTW, I think because you and I had that email last night, it made me have a dream that I was running in those ugly, nasty, bulky white nursing shoes. Can't say it was a bad dream though, as at least I was actually running.
 
Oh, and dare I say this as well... AHEM! If the Nike Free came in an EE size, maybe you should try those? They have flexibility, but not like a true minimal shoe, but enough for probably what you are going through. Enough cushioning. And not too high off the ground. I think they are nearly zero-drop...anyone know for sure? Just get the closest to 0.0 you can. ;) What flavor is that these day, still 3.0?
 
Those are not the same thing and have a 4mm heel to toe drop. I think they are a stiffer ride as well than the Minimus Zero Road. I think the code on the Minimus Zero Road is MR00. I also feel like they feel much cushier than what they really are. I mean they feel like there is much more sole there than there really is. I tried the trail versions and I did not like them comfort wise as much as the road version, but I am rarely off road so don't need shoes geared for off road. The MT20 in your video, which is a trail shoe, I've had a hard time finding the wider sizes in, even at the New Balance store locally. As far as the Nike Free's TJ, I couldn't tell anyone anything about them because they are too much shoe for me.
 
Thanks TJ for taking my phone call. I called her while at the shoe store. I looked at the trail zero drop and no cushion at all and with me working on concrete all day i chose not to get those. I did get new balance mimus trail mt10sv . Toe box is much so much better , the sides are a little snug like a slipper but i think that is better as it keeps my foot in place. They said this is 4 mm but does not look like it has the huge cushion.

http://www.newbalance.com/Minimus-10-Trail/MT10,default,pd.html

let me know what you all think.
 
Remember, take an extra pair of shoes so you can walk outside in the old ones and on the carpet in the new ones, so in case you have to exchange them, you can. Let us know how it goes. Dr. Stoxen is going to call you. Call me tonight once you get out of school.
 
These MT10 Trails are not the same ones Nick, then you and I spoke about on the phone, or at least those I thought we were talking about from above. I thought you were talking about these luggy/knobby ones. The ones you have are not as knobby. Maybe that will be better, to not be so knobby. I can't wait to find out how these (MT10s) do for you.

MT20s (knobby)
mt00bk_lg-gif.494

MT10s (not-so-knobby)
6-1-2012 6-50-39 PM.png
 
Forget all those others and for the Altra Instinct. It's basically everything you are looking for and will work great for the long shifts on your feet. I love mine when I am at expos or events because my feet never get sore.

About the PF. PF is simple to deal with but it seems no one looks at it from the proper perspective. The crux of the issue with PF is the calcaneus (heel bone) and the calf. It is being pulled on from opposing sides by the Calf through the achilles and the Plantar tissue through their connective points. The problem is that the calf and achilles are way bigger and stronger than the plantar muscles so they win the tug of war. This allows the tight calf to pull the calcaneus back and up which then stretches and flattens the plantar tissue. Start focusing on really stretching the calves. Get in a good calf stretch position and hold it for at least a minute. All thoughts on stretching aside this is actually working to put the calf into it's natural length which will then allow the calcaneus to roll back forward and release the plantar tension. You can also implement the rolling of the arches on a tennis ball as well as doing some exercises for foot strengthening and in a very short time you could see your pains go away. On average my clients see PF problems disappear in about two weeks depending on how bad the issue is.

Supportive shoes are attempting to do the same thing by pushing up on the plantar tissue with support built into the shoe. This is why a lot of people find temporary pain relief in supportive shoes and orthotics. They do help to put the foot back in a more natural position but their benefit is only temporary if at all which is why you didn't get better wearing the supportive shoes.
 
Jimmy, I just started really stretching out my calves today. I already do the tennis ball and other exercises. I hope this works. Seems everything I've done only seems to be temporary. I've never had PF before this and I think I took Sock Docs no stretching thing a bit too seriously way back when I had my first barefoot running calf injury. Anyhow, what you say sounds very logical, especially as I just came to this same conclusion myself today.
 
Thanks Jimmy. I think I am going to get those also. I have a thread in the help from docs which people have gave some advice and i am trying everything as i have dealt with this for 2 years. I did finally break down and get support shoes .I have been looking at the instincts but did not know if they had much cushioning. Right now i am wearing brooks beast and then when i get home either barefoot or putting on my flip flops. Also i have a small foot roller been doing but never got anything from it. I might switch to tennis ball.

http://thebarefootrunners.org/threads/pf-that-will-not-go-away-and-just-bought-new-shoes.6797/
 
Can you go into the strengthening exersizes for foot. I do wall stretches and then the foot on stairs up and down holding.

I have a foam roller too which i swear I can not work right as i use that to roller calves and see no affect. At the time i was going to PF and they did graston technique on calves.

Now though i have ditched all the docs as nothing they said worked.
 
Start focusing on really stretching the calves
Hey Jimmy, if you have time, please write some kind of response to the anti-stretching hysteria that's going around. Maybe post it on the main page so that everyone sees it. I get that stretching can be done the wrong way, or for the wrong purpose, and isn't always beneficial, but Soc Doc's unqualified "stretching is for bozos" campaign is really out of line. Really just a cheap and dishonest way to generate web traffic if you ask me. Stretching--static, dynamic, active, whatever--is a controversial topic right now, and I don't think anyone is in a position to have the last word on it. I do know I get a lot of benefit from it in general, and your advice last year to stretch out my calves more really helped alleviate my TOFP (thanks again).
 
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I've debated on writing something about stretching for a long time. I have not done so because I just don't want to be caught up in the controversy of it all but maybe I'll go ahead and do it. Like everything there is a balance to the practice and that is something that each individual has to find for themselves.

Foot strengthening exercises are easy. Think of the arch like your biceps. To work the biceps you move the hand toward the shoulder and in the foot it's the ball of the foot towards the heel. My favorite is very simple and very effective. Stand flat footed on carpet but any surface that allows easy sliding of the foot will work. While standing try and arch the foot up while moving the ball of the foot towards the heel. The goal would be to arch in a way that only the ball and heel are on the floor. Get as high as you can and hold for a few seconds then slowly lower yourself back down to flat. I find that most people can only do a few before they cramp. The cool thing is this is something you can do daily without over stressing the muscles of the feet. Just don't try and be that guy that does hundreds at a time and you'll be fine. I've got lots more but this is my favorite as it can even be done while in shoes.
 
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