Concurrent Strength Training & Running 2015: Eight-Week Workout Cycle II

#201
Bare Lee said:
Hey, a little validation for my instinct that the Squat and OH Press should be the foundation of my workouts:

http://startingstrength.com/articles/stronger_press_starr.pdf

"It’s the kind of lift that has to be leaned on, much like the squat." (Page 4, top paragraph)

Also, a good justification for moving to fractional increases after one reaches a certain rate of progress:

http://startingstrength.com/index.php/site/article/incremental_increases

Page Two: "It means that the more adapted the member gets, the smaller the increase has to be, but that at first we’re wasting time and attention span if we don’t use bigger increases. Most importantly, it means that if we don’t ask for an adaptation we’re not going to get one; if we use exercises that don’t provide a way to ask for incremental increases and then to obtain them, nothing about the member’s body will change."
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Ah yeah he's a smart one, alright I should buy his book I will probably like it more than I think.
It's interesting that he is completely open to why he does things the way he does them. I really appreciate his honesty.
I was thinking about this after my piss poor pressing session this morning. So the discussion and article were very timely. I took a peak on amazon for fractional plates, but fuck those bastards! A half pound plate should not cost more than a 45lb. one. I found a source in Germany for 0.5kg plates for E1.99 but they are out. Maybe I'll look around for some large washers I heard worked pretty well too.
 
#202
Abide said:
Ah yeah he's a smart one, alright I should buy his book I will probably like it more than I think.
It's interesting that he is completely open to why he does things the way he does them. I really appreciate his honesty.
I was thinking about this after my piss poor pressing session this morning. So the discussion and article were very timely. I took a peak on amazon for fractional plates, but fuck those bastards! A half pound plate should not cost more than a 45lb. one. I found a source in Germany for 0.5kg plates for E1.99 but they are out. Maybe I'll look around for some large washers I heard worked pretty well too.
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Yah, he comes off a lot better in his books and SS articles than in forums and Youtube debates. If you get one book, get Practical Programming instead of Starting Strength. Plus he uses words like "titrate."

While looking into microloading, I came across a lot of DIY ideas--washers, chains, wrist weights, baseball bat weights--so should be easy for you. I went for the overpriced fractional plates cuz it was easy and convenient, and they add up to exact increments, but they're definitely not necessary. I also got the 1.25 plates from Rogue since I was already paying shipping for the fractional plates, and it only cost $7.50 more.

Only time will tell if it was worth it. I may end up only using them for the Overhead Press, but I've noticed even with five-pound increases, my Squat form degrades just a hair until the adjustment has been made, so I'm hoping smaller increases will smooth things out. Getting stronger/faster/better is all about getting the dosage right to provoke an adaption within a given period of recovery, so fractional plates should help make the doses more exact. Who knows? Maybe I'll go back to using a Garmin on my runs too.

Did you try the Sumo Deadlifts yet?
 
#203
Bare Lee said:
Who knows? Maybe I'll go back to using a Garmin on my runs too.

Did you try the Sumo Deadlifts yet?
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Ha that's the way of things right. I used my garmin on that 50k a month ago for the course feature since it was unmarked. I still can't decide if knowing your distance and pace is better than not knowing? I seemed to be pleasantly surprised early on in the run about how fast the miles were going, but towards the end it was torture because 0.1 miles felt like an eternity. The 55k I guess was similar too, but when I hit that 40k aid station I swear we had run 45k. So who knows. I do like to track the distance on my phone with Strava but I never look at it mid run either, just for tracking sakes.

I can't bring myself to buy the washers so I'll probably overspend on a steel circle with numbers on it too. And mainly just for the numbers and to save a little time. How I have changed over the years.

I tried one yesterday with a kid in the pack on my back. Which is what made me think of them. I couldn't do a conventional deadlift without tipping him over the front so I tried a sumo and it worked since your torso stays so upright. I pulled 150k plus an additional 15k or so on my back and it felt easy. I seem to remember when I did them more frequently before its a go/no go type of lift. You either get it all the way up or can't break it off the floor. Next week I might do the 4/3/2 conventional and then do another top set of 2 sumo style just to work it in.
 
#204
Abide said:
Ha that's the way of things right. I used my garmin on that 50k a month ago for the course feature since it was unmarked. I still can't decide if knowing your distance and pace is better than not knowing? I seemed to be pleasantly surprised early on in the run about how fast the miles were going, but towards the end it was torture because 0.1 miles felt like an eternity. The 55k I guess was similar too, but when I hit that 40k aid station I swear we had run 45k. So who knows. I do like to track the distance on my phone with Strava but I never look at it mid run either, just for tracking sakes.

I can't bring myself to buy the washers so I'll probably overspend on a steel circle with numbers on it too. And mainly just for the numbers and to save a little time. How I have changed over the years.

I tried one yesterday with a kid in the pack on my back. Which is what made me think of them. I couldn't do a conventional deadlift without tipping him over the front so I tried a sumo and it worked since your torso stays so upright. I pulled 150k plus an additional 15k or so on my back and it felt easy. I seem to remember when I did them more frequently before its a go/no go type of lift. You either get it all the way up or can't break it off the floor. Next week I might do the 4/3/2 conventional and then do another top set of 2 sumo style just to work it in.
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Yah, it was a lot of fun when I first got the Garmin and found out what the different paces I had read about felt like. Then it was also fun to map my routes, even though Google Maps does an adequate job of that most of the time, at least for my urban running. But then it got to be a drag worrying about whether I was running a certain pace or not, and I had established the distances for most of my route possibilities, so I ditched the Garmin and haven't missed it since. The gadgets can add or subtract from the experience, just depends on one's mental state I guess.

And now that I'm thinking about taking more of a 'training' approach to my weekday runs, it might be useful to set pace goals for, say, a one-mile tempo run around the local track. On the weekend long run, if and when I get back at it, I may still leave the gadget at home and just enjoy the run for what it is.

Still, overall, I think it's possible to run without numbers in a way that's simply not possible with weights.

Yeah, I used to pride myself on low-tech, low-cost solutions, but now I just fork over the money for ease and convenience. With kids and a non-native wife, and aging parents to take care of, I don't need to add any unnecessary errands or tasks. It's still bizarre that all of the fractional plates I looked at are in the $50-65 range though. I guess it's a lack of sales volume. Maybe gyms don't buy them because they're too easy to rip off?

Interesting about the sumo deadlifts. I'll definitely get around to trying them at some point, but I read in that article you posted or somewhere else that they're more quad dominant than conventional deadlifts, and at this point, I'm mainly trying to get a strong posterior chain and back. However, I am interested in eventually working in all the main variations of the barbell lifts. It would be good to get good at front squats too, at some point.

Your wife didn't complain about you lifting with the baby in tow?

Now that I'm running regularly again, my good sleeping days are no longer staggered. I sleep well pretty much every night again. Whenever I feel a little less motivated for a workout, I just remind myself of how well I'll be sleeping that night if I put in a good effort.

I'm tempted to go on an aerobic run this weekend, but I think I'll stick to hills until my doctor's appointment in two weeks. Wanna get the blood pressure down, and I think conditioning work is the best way. Of course, even if it's still a bit high and he wants to prescribe pills, I'll just ignore him. I know eventually the running will bring it back down. Wish I would've thought about running hills earlier, it's really helping my left big toe heal up while I get in some running anyway.

On the Texas Method and being an "intermediate" lifter: http://startingstrength.com/index.php/site/article/the_texas_method
Opps, I think I already linked to this in the T-Nation format.
 
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#205
Bare Lee said:
Interesting about the sumo deadlifts. I'll definitely get around to trying them at some point, but I read in that article you posted or somewhere else that they're more quad dominant than conventional deadlifts, and at this point, I'm mainly trying to get a strong posterior chain and back. However, I am interested in eventually working in all the main variations of the barbell lifts. It would be good to get good at front squats too, at some point.

Your wife didn't complain about you lifting with the baby in tow?

I'm tempted to go on an aerobic run this weekend, but I think I'll stick to hills until my doctor's appointment in two weeks. Wanna get the blood pressure down, and I think conditioning work is the best way. Of course, even if it's still a bit high and he wants to prescribe pills, I'll just ignore him. I know eventually the running will bring it back down. Wish I would've thought about running hills earlier, it's really helping my left big toe heal up while I get in some running anyway.

On the Texas Method and being an "intermediate" lifter: http://startingstrength.com/index.php/site/article/the_texas_method
Opps, I think I already linked to this in the T-Nation format.
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3 Main Benefits of the Sumo Deadlift
1. It shortens the range of motion of the pull.
2. It works your hips more.
3. It's less stressful on the low back.

I don't know but I think they tend to be less back dominant and to me they are less quad dominant than conventional. Here a recommendation to cycle them http://www.ericcressey.com/how-to-deadlift-which-variation-is-right-for-you-2

She was out there lifting, I got her to deadlift with me actually. Normally I wouldn't though but he was having fun and strapped in there tight.

Cool to here about the hills, I wonder why it helps with your toe? Yeah I read that texa method article a while back. I'll read it again tonight.
 
#206
Abide said:
3 Main Benefits of the Sumo Deadlift
1. It shortens the range of motion of the pull.
2. It works your hips more.
3. It's less stressful on the low back.

I don't know but I think they tend to be less back dominant and to me they are less quad dominant than conventional. Here a recommendation to cycle them http://www.ericcressey.com/how-to-deadlift-which-variation-is-right-for-you-2

She was out there lifting, I got her to deadlift with me actually. Normally I wouldn't though but he was having fun and strapped in there tight.

Cool to here about the hills, I wonder why it helps with your toe? Yeah I read that texa method article a while back. I'll read it again tonight.
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I think I was going off this article:
http://muscleandbrawn.com/comparing-sumo-and-conventional-deadlifts/
I think we're saying the same thing, I just didn't say it very well. The main takeaway is that the conventional deadlift works the posterior chain a bit more, which is what I want. Also, since I have longer limbs, I probably feel more comfortably with it. Finally, for me, since I'm already doing squats, it seems to make sense to do the deadlift that is most unlike the squat. By that logic, however, I should also do front squats instead of back squats, since the former are more unlike deadlifts than the later. I'll stick to back squats for the time being though, since (1) I'm already habituated to it and (2) I'm chasing numbers.

Ha, that's cute. I got my son a plastic barbell set for his fourth birthday. Dreaming of the day when we train together, but right now it's a bit dangerous in my cramped space.

I think the hills help because (1), I'm going fairly slow (even though I'm huffing and puffing and therefore building up my V02max), so there's less impact, and (2), the less-than-90-degree angle of the foot at landing makes it more of a flat-foot landing and less of a forefoot landing. Right now, I don't feel any soreness in the met head area after running, but I think I'll give the hills two more weeks before I try a run down by the river. I really miss the river though . . . it's a great place to note the slow but perpetual changing of the seasons.
 
#208
Bare Lee said:
It was very nice not to have to write the sets and reps down. I just printed out this week from my Excel log and followed the prescriptions derived from the formulas. For the missed deadlift rep, I just had to cross out the '3' and write a '2' beside it. So it saves some time and effort to have every workout programmed and printed, and then just make little adjustments as the actual workout unfolds. I guess I don't need my little log book anymore.
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my system is a piece of paper taped to the wall. before i start doing anything, i pencil out my different aspirational exercises, sets, repetitions, and loads. then when i finish one of them, i put a little dot next to it because i can't count or remember which one i'm on. so i end up with these little triangles or squares or whatever. similarly as you have found, i find it easier to think through everything beforehand and then maybe bump a weight up or down a little relative to the planned amount rather than trying to think everything through in the "heat" of the moment. of course, now the bedroom wall next to the weight machine looks like a 1925 prairie cabin wallpaper job; but, hey, that's nothing to be ashamed of.

anyways, the squats seem to be slowly coming along. for one thing, i'm getting much warmer than i did previously because i'm moving a total of 20% more weight (bodyweight included) than i was a month ago so i'm generating 20% more heat, too. tonight, i did two sets of 6 at 140 (interleaved with 130 and capped off with a 135). two and a half weeks ago, i was testing squats on a mess-around day and only managed two sets of 4 at 135. and back a month ago, i managed a 140 single and a 150 double. so, i'm not exactly sure what happened. maybe that one extra set is doing some good.
 
#209
Sid said:
Perhaps, your doctor failed to inform you of mortality and hypertension.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3138604/figure/Fig1/
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No, he was pretty concerned, and ran some tests to make sure my kidneys were OK. What I should have explained more was (1), it's been going down already, since I've started running hills while I wait for my left big toe met head to heal up enough so that I can begin running continuously, and (2), in the past, consistent running has been key to keeping my blood pressure normal. In fact, I went through this same thing with the same doc several years ago. Just like with my wife; both seem to have forgotten that regular running took care of the blood pressure and fat loss before.

Actually for the time being, I've decided not to worry about the fat loss part of equation. I've read enough different people say it's hard to make significant strength gains without eating a lot. So I'm counting on slowly converting the fat into muscle rather than getting rid of it first and then build muscle. Worst case is I achieve this year's strength goals (187/280/320/400) while still carrying a bit of a belly, then I begin incorporating more HIIT or conditioning stuff into my routine while I either maintain the strength gains or push on (to 200/300/400/500). But I'm pretty confident consistent lifting and running will take care of things. It did before. I haven't run consistently since the fall of 2013, and I've gained 30-40 pounds since!

Thanks for your concern though.
BroadArrow said:
my system is a piece of paper taped to the wall. before i start doing anything, i pencil out my different aspirational exercises, sets, repetitions, and loads. then when i finish one of them, i put a little dot next to it because i can't count or remember which one i'm on. so i end up with these little triangles or squares or whatever. similarly as you have found, i find it easier to think through everything beforehand and then maybe bump a weight up or down a little relative to the planned amount rather than trying to think everything through in the "heat" of the moment. of course, now the bedroom wall next to the weight machine looks like a 1925 prairie cabin wallpaper job; but, hey, that's nothing to be ashamed of.

anyways, the squats seem to be slowly coming along. for one thing, i'm getting much warmer than i did previously because i'm moving a total of 20% more weight (bodyweight included) than i was a month ago so i'm generating 20% more heat, too. tonight, i did two sets of 6 at 140 (interleaved with 130 and capped off with a 135). two and a half weeks ago, i was testing squats on a mess-around day and only managed two sets of 4 at 135. and back a month ago, i managed a 140 single and a 150 double. so, i'm not exactly sure what happened. maybe that one extra set is doing some good.
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Yah, I did something similar with my official workout log book. I'd write in the lift, then under the "Set 1," "Set 2," and so on row, fill in the reps. After each set, I'd write in the reps completed, kind of a little pat on the back. I think I will miss that little ritual now, as I trade in the warmth of improvised human practice for the cold, pre-printed digital spreadsheet fascistically telling me exactly what is expected of me. Basically now I shamefully mark missed reps but otherwise just sign off on the workout when I'm done. Still, and more seriously, I am enjoying this newfound precision. It will be interesting to see what it feels like after a few months of these formalized workouts and the prescribed steady rates of weight increase. But I'm thinking I just might be a microloadin' kinda man. It's sort of a Texas Method, Undulating Periodization, Easy Strength, Reactive Training Systems combination training for intermediate lifters program, the "Classic" Six Lifts version. Or TMUPESRTSCT4ILPC6LV for short. Has a nice singsong quality to it, doncha think? It could become the fitness buzzword of 2015.

Seems like pound for pound, you're getting pretty strong!
 
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#210
Bare Lee said:
Worst case is I achieve this year's strength goals (187/280/320/400) while still carrying a bit of a belly, then I begin incorporating more HIIT or conditioning stuff into my routine while I either maintain the strength gains or push on (to 200/300/400/500).
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Wrong. Worst case is the cardiovascular damage continues at an accelerated pace due to hypertension, while pursuing whatever other goals. Deteriorating slower is still deteriorating. No point in building a magnificent edifice upon a crumbling foundation, especially when the damage is largely irreversible.
 
#211
Sid said:
Wrong. Worst case is the cardiovascular damage continues at an accelerated pace due to hypertension, while pursuing whatever other goals. Deteriorating slower is still deteriorating. No point in building a magnificent edifice upon a crumbling foundation, especially when the damage is largely irreversible.
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OK, but it's down into the 130s, another 10 and I'll be in normal range. Yesterday I was able to run OK without any pain in my left foot, so I'll be able to increase my mileage now and I'm sure that will bring it down within the normal range within a few more weeks. Still, I appreciate you're putting the fear of god in me. I've been too lax about this, you're right. I just have an aversion to prescriptions, and pill-popping in general as a form of treating the symptoms instead of the causes. They have their place though, no doubt.

Unrelatedly, here's an article I found yesterday while down at the park with my kids. It's the clearest explanation I've found yet for how training waves work and also how the different parameters of volume, intensity, density, and frequency interact: http://www.strengtheory.com/increasing-work-capacity/

I'm adding Nuckols to my list of reliable, no-BS sources.
 
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#212
Bare Lee said:
OK, but it's down into the 130s, another 10 and I'll be in normal range. Yesterday I was able to run OK without any pain in my left foot, so I'll be able to increase my mileage now and I'm sure that will bring it down within the normal range within a few more weeks. Still, I appreciate you're putting the fear of god in me. I've been too lax about this, you're right. I just have an aversion to prescriptions, and pill-popping in general as a form of treating the symptoms instead of the causes. They have their place though, no doubt.

Unrelatedly, here's an article I found yesterday while down at the park with my kids. It's the clearest explanation I've found yet for how training waves work and also how the different parameters of volume, intensity, density, and frequency interact: http://www.strengtheory.com/increasing-work-capacity/

I'm adding Nuckols to my list of reliable, no-BS sources.
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That's a good read. There is a couple of chapters that talk about work capacity in the hybrid training book. He discussed more about multi modal work capacity increases though.
So far the book is pretty good. i'll post up some thoughts in a bit.
 
#213
Abide said:
That's a good read. There is a couple of chapters that talk about work capacity in the hybrid training book. He discussed more about multi modal work capacity increases though.
So far the book is pretty good. i'll post up some thoughts in a bit.
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Yah, Nuckols seems to have a different, more specifically ST interpretation than the usual idea of work capacity being one of conditioning or GPP.

Here's another fantastic article that completely validates my current 5-8-3 weekly wave for rep-counts:

http://www.strengtheory.com/the-bogeyman-of-training-programs-and-why-it-may-be-just-what-you-need/

Gotta love confirmation bias!

Lunchtime read:
http://bretcontreras.com/glute-training-is-good-for-powerlifters/
An argument for the Sumo Deadlift over the Hip Thrust?
 
#214
Another good read, I think hip thrusts might be a good idea between sets. Also maybe going back and forth between convention and sumo could help get my volumes up on DL?
 
#215
Abide said:
Another good read, I think hip thrusts might be a good idea between sets. Also maybe going back and forth between convention and sumo could help get my volumes up on DL?
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I wonder if unweighted, single-leg hip thrusts would be enough to activate everything? It would be easy to work those in between sets if there wasn't any setting up involved. You could just use the bench.

In general, I don't feel like I have any issues about my glutes not firing enough, and I'm loath to add in any more assistance exercises that I'll never get around to. I could see your idea of alternating between the sumo and conventional DL though. Maybe even a rack or block sumo to really focus on the glutes. I also think I'll have to work in Power Cleans as a substitute for the Deadlifts once my Deadlifts climb over 300 and become more taxing. Nuckols and his endorsement of the Bulgarian Method is another voice cautioning against overdoing the deadlift.

In general, even though I only ever seem to have time for the six lifts, I've been rethinking the assistance lifts a bit, and have ended up subdividing them into categories of "accessory," "variation," and "substitute." Accessory lifts are one's that focus on the secondary and stabilizing muscles. I would like to make a greater attempt at working these in. Variation lifts I probably won't get to until I achieve my intermediate goals (OHP=187/BP=280/SQ=320/DL-400). These would probably go on Monday's 5RM or "Volume" day, with submaximal loads, and keep the main lifts for the 1-3RM or intensity day, where close-to-maximal loads and PRs are at play. Substitutes might be worth working in even before achieving my intermediate-level goals, probably on Wednesday's 8RM day, especially for the Deadlift and Bench Press, as their proposed substitutes seem more like higher rep lifts:

2015 Cycle 2 Week 6 -- 15.04.07.jpg
 
#216
BL your right he's one of the smart ones, I really like this guy.
http://bretcontreras.com/5-things-people-need-to-stop-overthinking/
Solid article which comes to the conclusion we have.. figure out what works best for yourself.

Charles Staley has been promoting his books pretty hard too. I just spent $32 on Viada's book, maybe I should drop the $47 on his. It seems like the two of them discuss ideas quite a bit too.

Anyway, I am still feeling lousy this week. I can't get my head in my workouts and I am trying to figure out what's going on. Hopefully it will wear off in a day or two.

Yeah time for me is another issue, the more intense you go the longer it takes to progress through the workout. I really don't think I ever had much time left over after hitting the 6 lifts a day. And I had to go through those pretty quick too. So substitution/variation is probably a good idea. I am also thinking about switching back over to something like you. The split routine is ok, but the time aspect and mental focus are difficult for me on this plan for some reason? I like to move through the lifts a little quicker I think.


Capture.JPG

I like your idea about substituting and I think it could work. Even to drop down some of the working loads to keep things quick and short too.
 
#217
BL your right he's one of the smart ones, I really like this guy.
http://bretcontreras.com/5-things-people-need-to-stop-overthinking/
Solid article which comes to the conclusion we have.. figure out what works best for yourself.

Yah, he's an elite powerlifter who is able to reach out to average lifters like us and has the common sense to translate out of the elite paradigms. I think that's a big part of the problem with online discussions/forums. People try to apply pro-style training to their much humbler goals. For general strength gains, I'm convinced the six lifts or force/direction pairings, plus some assistance like loaded carries, groundwork, etc., with a variety of rep-counts, is the way to go. A sort of "cover all your bases" approach for the common man.

I'm not sure I agree with him that stances and grips don't matter. I think RDL Fitness is right that medium grips/stances are probably best for long-term joint health. I still feel quite blessed to have figured out a way to take care of my left shoulder issue, and part of it was learning better pressing grip and technique.

I'm glad he's criticized the whole strength versus hypertrophy dichotomy. That's one that never made sense to me.

Charles Staley has been promoting his books pretty hard too. I just spent $32 on Viada's book, maybe I should drop the $47 on his. It seems like the two of them discuss ideas quite a bit too.

If it were cheaper and available in paper, I would probably buy it. I like to read fitness stuff while in my straddle stretch contraption. On the other hand, lately I've been feeling like I've reached a point of diminishing returns each time I read something fitness-related. I'm close to knowing about all I need to know for my purposes, and feeling incredibly good about how my training and 'program' are going.

Anyway, I am still feeling lousy this week. I can't get my head in my workouts and I am trying to figure out what's going on. Hopefully it will wear off in a day or two.

It's just a phase and like you say, it will pass. Could be a sign of the dreaded overtraining, but it's probably just some kind of biorhythm thing. And realistically, it probably takes at least a week to completely recover from one your ultra races, even if you feel fine after just a day or two.

Yeah time for me is another issue, the more intense you go the longer it takes to progress through the workout. I really don't think I ever had much time left over after hitting the 6 lifts a day. And I had to go through those pretty quick too. So substitution/variation is probably a good idea. I am also thinking about switching back over to something like you. The split routine is ok, but the time aspect and mental focus are difficult for me on this plan for some reason? I like to move through the lifts a little quicker I think.

Yah, the frequency/volume approach has a lot of merit in that respect. More intense and focused workouts are great, but it's hard to get up for them every time, and when you only do a lift once or twice or week, there's some pressure to hit it well each time. I think also with microloading, my workouts are starting to take on more of an Easy Strength quality. I'll know for sure in a few more weeks, but my sense is that I'll be progressing at a rate a little below what I'm capable of. If so, this in turn will allow me to emphasize volume a bit more, which should lead to bigger gains in the long term. Izzy at Powerliftingtowin tried to explain it. I had trouble completely following his reasoning, but intuitively, it makes sense to me. It's also the idea behind Wendler's 5/3/1 program, right? Thanks for exposing me to these ideas by the way. I think I'm finally starting to get it.

View attachment 5713

I like your idea about substituting and I think it could work. Even to drop down some of the working loads to keep things quick and short too.

That looks like a great organization. A nice application of my basic idea of working in variation/substitutes and finding which rep-counts might work best for each one. It helps to add in a little variety while at the same time it keeps one focused on pushing the lower reps and PRs on the main lifts. It's good, flexible template, which, conceivably could be varied even on a daily basis. I'll soon be trying to implement something similar in my running. I had a great hills workout yesterday, but I think a weekly mix of hills/tempo/LSD could really work for me. I've been meaning to do this for several years now, but perhaps this recent spat of injuries is what it took to get me to actually do it, just like rehabbing in ST has helped me rethink my approach there as well.
 
#218
Bare Lee said:
Yah, the frequency/volume has a lot of merit in that respect. More intense and focused workouts are great, but it's hard to get up for them every time, and when you only do a lift once or twice or week, there's some pressure to hit it well each time. I think also with microloading, my workouts are starting to take on more of an Easy Strength quality. I'll know for sure in a few more weeks, but my sense is that I'll be progressing at a rate a little below what I'm capable of. If so, this in turn will allow me to emphasize volume a bit more, which should lead to bigger gains in the long term. Izzy at Powerliftingtowin tried to explain it. I had trouble completely following his reasoning, but intuitively, it makes sense to me. It's also the idea behind Wendler's 5/3/1 program, right? Thanks for exposing me to these ideas by the way.

View attachment 5713

I like your idea about substituting and I think it could work. Even to drop down some of the working loads to keep things quick and short too.

That looks like a great organization. A nice application of my basic idea of working in variation/substitutes and finding which rep-counts might work best for each one. It helps add in a little variety while at the same time keeps one focused on pushing the lower reps and PRs on the main lifts. It's good, flexible template, which, conceivably could be varied even on a daily basis. I'll soon be trying to implement something similar in my running. I had a great hills workout yesterday, but I think a weekly mix of hills/tempo/and LSD could really work for me. I've been meaning to do this for years now, but perhaps this recent spat of injuries is what it took to get me to actually do it, just like rehabbing in ST has helped me rethink my approach there as well.
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I think that is a great explanation for where I am at, plus with the running I think heavy loading each workout is taking its toll. Even on the non-interference lifts, but I guess ultimately they all work together.

Yep, in the Hybrid training book he is a big proponent for hitting all aspects of both strength and endurance training. For lifting your intensity, volume and speedwork, and for endurance your tempo, intervals and LSD. So you are basically running his program with some modifications, mainly in the strength area.
He also states that drug free males can only gain about 1.5 pounds of lean mass a month so the weight gain caused by hypertrophy lifts is negligible. Something to think about I guess.
 
#219
Abide said:
I think that is a great explanation for where I am at, plus with the running I think heavy loading each workout is taking its toll. Even on the non-interference lifts, but I guess ultimately they all work together.

Yep, in the Hybrid training book he is a big proponent for hitting all aspects of both strength and endurance training. For lifting your intensity, volume and speedwork, and for endurance your tempo, intervals and LSD. So you are basically running his program with some modifications, mainly in the strength area.
He also states that drug free males can only gain about 1.5 pounds of lean mass a month so the weight gain caused by hypertrophy lifts is negligible. Something to think about I guess.
Click to expand...
Yah, it all boils down to some combo of a heavy/medium/light weekly rhythm, for both running and lifting.

I'm thinking about adding some sets to Monday's workout, to bring it back up to more of a volume workout, and the overall effort level would be medium.

Wednesday's 8RM could conceivably be done at 70% instead of 75%, i.e. submaximally, so that I could try to increase the bar speed a bit and make it more of a DE day, although I think Tuchscherer has questioned whether Simmon's dynamic effort concept is really valid. I tend to think that each rep-count should be done at one's training max, or 90% effort level. The variation in load is enough to guarantee slightly different and beneficial adaptations, as well as different bar speeds. I could try even higher reps on Wednesday, like 10-15, but mentally, that would just take all the fun out of it. So Wednesday is my light day, even though it takes more mental effort to do eight reps than three or five. Physically, I feel like I recover faster from it. Actually, there's a sort of inverse proportion between physical effort and mental effort. Lower-rep sets are always the easiest for me mentally, but the most intense physically.

Then Friday is my heavy day. I'm thinking about doing more singles and doubles. A few weeks ago, the idea was to just do a 1/2/3 descending sets protocol whenever I bumped up a lift by five pounds, to test my new 1RM, but now that I'm micro-loading increases every week, I'm thinking it might be good to do a single and a double every or almost every Friday, then settle in for 2x3 or 3x3 straight sets across. I've always liked the drop sets approach for the bench, and Rippetoe gives a good explanation (I uploaded a photo of the paragraph a while ago) for why that might work. It's also in keeping with Rippetoe's Texas Method for intermediate lifters, and the idea of always testing one's PRs at the end of the week. I would just be substituting the TM 5RM PR for a 1RM PR (still at roughly 90% my true 1RM, ideally). Adding in singles and doubles would up the intensity of Friday's workout, making it even more of a heavy day. But then I have 72 hours to recover before Monday's workout, so this is the time when recovery is sufficient for the strength adaptations to really solidify.

For Running, it's just the reverse. The week begins with a heavy day on Tuesday, with hills or intervals. Thursday would be my medium day, with a tempo run (just pushing the pace a little above aerobic). And then Saturday I do my aerobic run, my easy day.

ST: M
R: H
ST: L
R: M
ST: H
R: L

It's nice because then my hardest running day is followed by my easiest lifting day, and my hardest lifting day is followed by my easiest running day. So anyway, this is probably a sneak preview of my plan for the next cycle.

Edit: you mentioned Staley, here's a nice article relevant to concurrent training: http://thinkmuscle.com/training/primer-on-endurance-training/#more-123

Here's one endorsing higher frequency training: http://thinkmuscle.com/training/planning-your-training-frequency/#more-109
 
#220
He makes an interesting observation from a body composition perspective.

"Aerobic work, when performed at low intensities, are valuable in assisting recovery from intense workouts. Anaerobic interval training, when done at or near lactate threshold, assists in fat loss through the production of growth hormone levels.
Strangely, moderate intensity endurance training seems to be most counter-productive for athletes interested in improving body composition— they wear you down without producing the hormonal environment conducive to fat loss."
This article is a very different perspective than his hate cardio article in T-nation.

So you don't think there is validity cycling the lifts between your workouts and doing all one modality per session?
 
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