Concurrent Strength Training & Running 2015: Eight-Week Workout Cycle II

Makes sense for distance runners.

Not to split hairs, but I don't know if I would call that strength training. It's more like a conditioning program.

I would like to start doing more of that sort of thing once my strength gains start to plateau, but for the moment, I'm trying to add strength and mass while I still can. In the meantime, my conditioning will have to come from running hills and sprints.
 
I think DJ's article might actually support the idea of micro increases. It's the bigger jumps that lead to injury I think. It's funny when I was searching for info on fractional or micro loading, there isn't a lot around. Poliquin endorses it, as does old school Doug Hepburn (http://www.t-nation.com/article/bodybuilding/10_strength_tips_from_a_legend&cr=). Poliquin say it's like the Japanese business concept of Kaizen. So it's still not a well-used protocol I guess. Some of the macho posters over at Starting Strength call them fag plates. I'm crushed.

Hey continuous improvement that's a pretty cool way of looking at it actually.
It's unfortunate Rip has the attitude he does because he just encourages his idiot following to act like him and leads to terrible content overall. Too bad because his forum could be pretty useful.

The way I envision it, is I keep using my formulas and percentages to keep things progressing towards the Iron Ratio of 2:3:4:5, based on some kind of prescribed rate of increase for the OH Press and/or Squat. Say, something like a pound per week for the OH Press. That's two pounds per week for the squat (once the Squat reaches a 2:1 ratio to the OH Press). If I'm able to sustain that for a year, that would lead to 50- and 100-pound increases, respectively. If at some point I'm no longer able to sustain that rate of increase, no biggie, with fractional plates, I can easily take it down to a 1/2 pound per week. When that's no longer sustainable, then 1/2 pound every two weeks, and so on. I think this is a better way to go than increasing by a larger increment and then missing reps or degrading technique until one's strength catches up. Even for the Squat, it seems like it would be beneficial to increase the load without being able to perceive it, or without having to refocus on form to make sure there's no degradation of technique, which can happen even with a five-pound increase.

We'll see. I'm sure there will be times when I can't be bothered with monkeying with the little plates, but like you say, for at least the OH Press, probably the Bench Press, and possibly the Squat and Deadlift, this could be an valuable tool. I'm pretty happy and proud that I've been able to adopt a more gradualist or patient approach while rehabbing the glute/hip injury, so anything I can use to maintain that attitude is worth trying.

I'm also seeing the hills training as a form of micro-loading, insofar as it's easier to control the doses precisely and build up very gradually.

It's funny Dan John also endorses the idea of weak points, but so far, I've never been able to feel like any particular phase of a lift is weaker than the others. I always just experience it as the entire lift being weak or strong, or relatively hard or easy as a whole. The sticking points are always the same, and they're always overcome by simply letting time and repetition do their thing. I think I would rather just trust in volume to lead to continuing increases than doing partials, working with chains, or what have you.

For grip, Dan John might be right, that it's keeping a lot of people's lifts back, but like we've discussed with BA's deadlifts, I've found just doing more deadlifts, that is, more volume, pretty much took care of things. Once again, I tend to opt for the stupid or simpler protocol. The body adapts to specific stimuli, just got to trust it and get on with it.

I was thinking about this a little and it seems like DJ has progressed to such a level of strength training he needs these odd radical changes to keep progressing. From our perspective we have a long way to go before our gains will likely fizzle out. I think out biggest obstacle is how to keep adding strength while working through the setbacks that running causes. But concepts like using fractional plates and wave loading should be helpful.

One thing about gripping the bar during the bench press, I experimented a little more on Saturday, but I think I exaggerated the straightness of the back of the hand and forearm. If it's too straight, it actually creates a moment arm on the other side. I think that's why I found it harder on Saturday. The hand has to be cocked back a little in order for the bar to be right over the forearm. It's not like throwing a punch.

Yeah I worked on this a little Monday and I'm pretty sure you should probably place it where it feels most comfortable. Too far forward and its the same issue just different side. I did twist my hand a bit to make it more of an outward position twisted position and that helped a bit but I still am concerned how that changes the shoulder position? More in the opposite direction of a neutral grip.
 
Hey continuous improvement that's a pretty cool way of looking at it actually.

Yah, I'm pretty stoked to try this out. Instead of saying, well, the bar is starting to feel lighter, I guess I'm ready for an increase, or, I'll make a jump and if I can't handle it I'll do fewer reps or sets, which alters one's overall volume, you just plug away at barely noticeable increases. If the bar starts to feel light, you increase the increases by a hair to bring it back in line. Conversely, if the increases start to feel like too much, you drop back down and decrease the increases. It all becomes about manipulating the rate of increase, not timing the increases. It takes some of the guess work out, and also avoids missing reps or sets. Yesterday I bumped up to 130 for my Overhead Press 5RM, even though I knew it would probably be too much. It didn't help that I was feeling really lethargic. I managed to complete the first set, but I had to drop back down to 125 for the second, because I knew I would miss reps if I tried 130 for another set. If I had fractional plates, I could've just gone for 126. I went through this same thing while transitioning from a 115RM to a 120RM--It took several weeks before I could do 120 straight sets across.

Looking back, I see I've been able to increase my Overhead Press on average by about five pounds every month for the last few months, so that means I should be able to add about one pound per week. So that's what I'll try to do as soon as my Rogue plates arrive (hopefully tomorrow). For the squat, I'll try two pounds per week and see how that goes.

It's unfortunate Rip has the attitude he does because he just encourages his idiot following to act like him and leads to terrible content overall. Too bad because his forum could be pretty useful.

Yeh, Rip's mocking attitude doesn't help. But it seems like about half the people on any strength training forum are young, stupid, macho pricks. The other half tend to be older and reasonable, encouraging, and eager to trade ideas, so it's still worth looking into them once in a while. I don't do it randomly though; a Google search on a specific topic usually leads me to the forums.

Still, I give Rip a lot of credit for reviving basic, full-body barbell training, and looking into the science of it to defend his point of view.

I was thinking about this a little and it seems like DJ has progressed to such a level of strength training he needs these odd radical changes to keep progressing. From our perspective we have a long way to go before our gains will likely fizzle out. I think out biggest obstacle is how to keep adding strength while working through the setbacks that running causes. But concepts like using fractional plates and wave loading should be helpful.

Yah, I'm pretty sure all those programs are for advanced trainees. Once again, I think Rip is right in saying that the novice's cycle is one workout, and an intermediate's is one week--volume, recovery, intensity. Others have formulated the one-week cycle in terms of a medium, easy, and hard day, in different orders. I've simply taken those insights and molded them into a one-week cycle based on varying rep-counts, in order to cover all the different strength stimuli. It's hard to say when I will plateau, but some of the folks who have tried micro-loading claim it helps one keep from plateauing. My sense is that my natural plateau will be something like a 400 deadlift, a squat somewhere in the low to mid 300s, and a bench press close to 300, but I won't know for sure until I've lifted consistently for a year or two, with no injuries or setbacks. That's another reason to give the micro-loading a try, because it will help me adopt a very gradual approach to load increases, giving my muscles, tendons, and ligaments plenty of time to adapt.

I'm liking the idea of keeping my weekday running to more of a conditioning protocol, and saving my longer runs for Saturday, when I'll have two days to recover before I lift again. T-Nation has a good article today on the importance of conditioning, akin to that article you posted yesterday.

In your case, however, as long as you're pursuing ultra distances, you'll probably always have to compromise a bit. But it's a good problem to have, to try to optimize endurance and strength at the same time. I guess with your multi-week wave loading, it would be helpful if you could begin a wave right after an ultra event, with light weights, and end it one week to a few days before the next one, this might be a way to optimize strength gains with minimal interference from running. Or, perhaps try a reverse wave and start heavy right after a race and slowly lighten the load until right before your next race, if you want to optimize race performance.

My focus is solely on strength gains right now so I won't consider a wave beyond a week until I'm at the upper intermediate level, but I could see trying a four-week cycle of running and lifting that moves in opposite direction, from smaller to larger RM percentages, like your wave, and longer to shorter weekend runs, say from 12 to 10 to 8 to 6 miles.

Yeah I worked on this a little Monday and I'm pretty sure you should probably place it where it feels most comfortable. Too far forward and its the same issue just different side. I did twist my hand a bit to make it more of an outward position twisted position and that helped a bit but I still am concerned how that changes the shoulder position? More in the opposite direction of a neutral grip.

Yah, I looked at my hands yesterday and the natural position is also one that places the bar pretty much over the forearm. I was exaggerating it last Saturday. I felt some lower back soreness yesterday so I looked into the whole powerlifting arch thing again. Here's a pretty good article on bench press technique in general
http://www.elitefts.com/education/training/powerlifting/back-to-a-pain-free-bench/
and here's one on the arch.
https://www.t-nation.com/training/fake-strength-stop-arching-the-bench-press
For the time being, I'm assuming the lower back pain is normal muscle soreness resulting from asking the muscles to perform in a new way, but if it persists I'll go back to flat back benching. I haven't felt it before, these last few weeks of trying to adopt more a powerlifting technique, and the powerlifting technique is supposed to be better for your shoulders, so I'll keep at it and just assume my lower back is sore because I did so many sets on Saturday.
 
1. Break the bar
After discovering Pavel's push-up trick of gripping the floor and rotating outward, I've found this same technique to be of great value for understanding the tension in the back needed in the bench press. By trying to “break the bar” this way, the elbows rotate inward and the shoulder blades rotate in as well. Kind of a “screw” mechanism. This also makes it easier to tuck the elbows because the rotation will place the elbows closer to the body.
Exercise: Bar break

This is an easy exercise but an important one. Stand tall and hold a stick in front of you with your normal grip width. With the arms out in front, start to break the bar upward. When holding this tension, the elbows should rotate in, and you should feel the rhomboids tighten up as well. If not, push your chest higher up to find a tall and upright position. From this position, pull the bar to the sternum while holding the tension. Make sure the elbows are directly behind the elbows and bar. Don't ingrain a faulty pattern. I recommend 8–10 slow repetitions.

Ahh this is what I was tinkering with. The tucking the elbows makes sense. Thanks for posting that. I've read the break the bar cues before but for some reason the concept didn't click until just now.

Good point about the waves, I am running race every 3 weeks unfortunately or I would do the waves like you said. Maybe I could do mini-waves? The good thing is for the lower lifts I have 4-5 days of rest between the race and my lower session it probably won't matter.

Speaking of which I need to print my dl plan for tomorrow.
 
1. Break the bar
After discovering Pavel's push-up trick of gripping the floor and rotating outward, I've found this same technique to be of great value for understanding the tension in the back needed in the bench press. By trying to “break the bar” this way, the elbows rotate inward and the shoulder blades rotate in as well. Kind of a “screw” mechanism. This also makes it easier to tuck the elbows because the rotation will place the elbows closer to the body.
Exercise: Bar break

This is an easy exercise but an important one. Stand tall and hold a stick in front of you with your normal grip width. With the arms out in front, start to break the bar upward. When holding this tension, the elbows should rotate in, and you should feel the rhomboids tighten up as well. If not, push your chest higher up to find a tall and upright position. From this position, pull the bar to the sternum while holding the tension. Make sure the elbows are directly behind the elbows and bar. Don't ingrain a faulty pattern. I recommend 8–10 slow repetitions.

Ahh this is what I was tinkering with. The tucking the elbows makes sense. Thanks for posting that. I've read the break the bar cues before but for some reason the concept didn't click until just now.

Good point about the waves, I am running race every 3 weeks unfortunately or I would do the waves like you said. Maybe I could do mini-waves? The good thing is for the lower lifts I have 4-5 days of rest between the race and my lower session it probably won't matter.

Speaking of which I need to print my dl plan for tomorrow.
Yah, sometimes different explanations of the same thing click for some, but not for others, or for the same person, at different times. I remember trying to understand the subjunctive in French in college. For some reason, the third textbook's explanation is the one that got through. I've been using that example ever since about how different explanations/cues will work for some, but not all.

Anyway, yah, I've been trying that cue to "break the bar" on the eccentric phase and "spread the bar" on the concentric phase the last few workouts, and it really seems to help. So now if I can just learn to arch without any soreness, I'm pretty much all set for the bench. Your cue of simply making sure the knees are below the hips was also a good cue.

I would think you could modify your plan for mini waves, but if the current plan is working, no sense in messing with it, right?

Speaking of plans, I just ran through some calculations on my 2015 spreadsheet log, and if I start this week with 1RMs of

242 for the Squat, and
148 for the Overhead Press (which are very close to my current 1RMs of 245 and 150, respectively),

then, adding two pounds per week to the Squat, and
one pound per week to the Overhead Press, and
multiplying the Squat by 1.25 for the Deadlift load, and
multiplying the Overhead Press by 1.5 for the Bench Press load,
by the end of the year I get 1RMs of

400 for the Deadlift
320 for the Squat
280 for the B Press, and
187 the Overhead Press.

These are pretty much exactly my targets. Holy Long-term Planning! So it's kind of like divine intervention to get this fractional idea in the exact right week to make the numbers add up right by the end of the year. Time will tell if I'm actually able to maintain these rates of increase of course. But I really like the way this organizes each and every workout, each and every lift and rep-count, and it gives me little weekly bumps as motivation.

Also, if I am able to maintain these rates of increase, I should surpass all my old PRs sometime this summer, which is a nice, shorter term goal.
 
400 for the Deadlift
320 for the Squat
280 for the B Press, and
187 the Overhead Press.

Also, if I am able to maintain these rates of increase, I should surpass all my old PRs sometime this summer, which is a nice, shorter term goal.

I think these are very reasonable goals and about the same as what I ultimately would like to get up to. Probably not by the end of the year for me. I really need to figure out what kind of changes happen when I am sitting at a lower bodyweight to get a good timeline down.

After today's session I think I am just going to keep to the 4 week wave pattern. I have to take a week off from running and biking next week and trying to pair them up with the craziness of real life is a bit too difficult. I was thinking over the weekend too, one primary goal for me is to just be consistent with running and lifting. So Monday morning after a race be capable of lifting and biking, or the week before a race still feel comfortable getting in a heavy lifting session. After all if lifting slows me down a bit its really not a big deal. I'm just running to have fun and have a nice supported long marked path to follow.

btw I bought that guy Alex Viada's new book, I should get it delivered Friday night. Looking forward to reading it. I hope it has some extensive ultra related stuff in it. I have been listening to a couple of podcasts of his and I am understanding the concepts behind his thoughts, I just will be nice too see in more detail. It seems he pretty much is doing what we have figured out. Focus on the impact lifts and runs, minimal programming and learn how they can fit together without inhibiting each other.
 
and what about the splits? we still want to see you holding your wife over your head with your legs uniting east with west or whatever....
Ha, actually, the stretching is coming along. I've become more vigilant about getting into my straddle stretch contraption at least once a day. No projection for the splits happening, but it could be by the end of the year, maybe even this summer if I put more effort into it.
I think these are very reasonable goals and about the same as what I ultimately would like to get up to. Probably not by the end of the year for me. I really need to figure out what kind of changes happen when I am sitting at a lower bodyweight to get a good timeline down.

After today's session I think I am just going to keep to the 4 week wave pattern. I have to take a week off from running and biking next week and trying to pair them up with the craziness of real life is a bit too difficult. I was thinking over the weekend too, one primary goal for me is to just be consistent with running and lifting. So Monday morning after a race be capable of lifting and biking, or the week before a race still feel comfortable getting in a heavy lifting session. After all if lifting slows me down a bit its really not a big deal. I'm just running to have fun and have a nice supported long marked path to follow.

btw I bought that guy Alex Viada's new book, I should get it delivered Friday night. Looking forward to reading it. I hope it has some extensive ultra related stuff in it. I have been listening to a couple of podcasts of his and I am understanding the concepts behind his thoughts, I just will be nice too see in more detail. It seems he pretty much is doing what we have figured out. Focus on the impact lifts and runs, minimal programming and learn how they can fit together without inhibiting each other.

Yah, I expect to achieve those goals, then, if I'm still progressing, try for 500/400/300/200. But if I stall out, I switch over either to a full-body AB split with a more sophisticated periodization plan, or to more of a conditioning program once a week and maybe work more on bodyweight and assistance stuff as well. Or both, who knows?

I'm using the glass metaphor as my guide, which I've seen in a few places. It's the idea that strength is the glass, and the greater it is, the more you can fill in it. So, also given my age, it makes sense to see what I can achieve strength-wise first, then work in the other stuff later, given time and motivational constraints.

Yah, I like the idea of just getting on with it, but even yesterday, while running hills, I was a bit worried about doing too much and having it hamper my squats today. I gotta get rid of that mentality. Kind of the opposite of you, I can't worry whether the running is interfering with my lifting. And I can't let this idea of always adding weight every week mess with my mind either. I have to be ready for that first week when it's just not reasonable to add anything at all. On the other hand, I'm hoping the rate of increase has been underestimated and I'll find myself able to make slightly bigger bumps once in a while. In any case, it gives me something to obsess about, and yet, conversely, makes the whole process more mindless, which is always good.

Look forward to hearing what you think of Viada's book. I would still eventually like to become a semi-accomplished middle-aged runner, able to consistently run a half-marathon under two hours, so I may pick up that book too if you think it's worth it. I read fitness stuff while I'm stretching.

Good to see you're making a push on the squats btw. Always nice to have company.
 
5 x 6 at 180 that's progress!

hmm... i believe that is actually a reflection of my mental abilities. that would be your basic typo that is supposed to be "5x6 at 130lbs" which is still progress, just not as thrilling as 180. :)

on the other hand, my friend and i cranked out 16.99 miles (should have run to next driveway before stopping...) yesterday and i am able to walk just fine and everything. although, i did resist the urge to lift weights last night. not that it got me to bed earlier: i just read about regulations on farm stands in my state and how to operate a teeny-tiny farm in your backyard. apparently, everyone thinks that livestock are the way to go. a) i'm not convinced and b) i want to be able to be gone. so, i think i'll stick with tomatoes or something.... but, back to the point, i should have gone to be early, or at least on time....
 
hmm... i believe that is actually a reflection of my mental abilities. that would be your basic typo that is supposed to be "5x6 at 130lbs" which is still progress, just not as thrilling as 180. :)

on the other hand, my friend and i cranked out 16.99 miles (should have run to next driveway before stopping...) yesterday and i am able to walk just fine and everything. although, i did resist the urge to lift weights last night. not that it got me to bed earlier: i just read about regulations on farm stands in my state and how to operate a teeny-tiny farm in your backyard. apparently, everyone thinks that livestock are the way to go. a) i'm not convinced and b) i want to be able to be gone. so, i think i'll stick with tomatoes or something.... but, back to the point, i should have gone to be early, or at least on time....
Take away the steroids, the champions become mortal, and the fans lose faith.

Anyway, five sets of six reps @ 130lbs is still pretty good. Just curious, why did you decide on six reps as your magic rep-count? It's funny how we end up with our favorite set/rep schemes. Half science, half instinct.

Your run reminds me of my longest run, which was 15.95mi. I was still using a Garmin at the time. I thought about running to the end of the street, for an even 16mi, but I had stepped in some kind of fertilizer or chemical and the last four miles were a bit painful on the soles, so I was glad to be done.

Funny you mention tomatoes, yesterday my family told me they want a garden. Only problem is, I know I'll be the one who does all the work. Just like I'm the one who takes care of my daughter's glofish and hermit crabs and gerbils.
 
Yah, I expect to achieve those goals, then, if I'm still progressing, try for 500/400/300/200. But if I stall out, I switch over either to a full-body AB split with a more sophisticated periodization plan, or to more of a conditioning program once a week and maybe work more on bodyweight and assistance stuff as well. Or both, who knows?

I'm using the glass metaphor as my guide, which I've seen in a few places. It's the idea that strength is the glass, and the greater it is, the more you can fill in it. So, also given my age, it makes sense to see what I can achieve strength-wise first, then work in the other stuff later, given time and motivational constraints.

Yah, I like the idea of just getting on with it, but even yesterday, while running hills, I was a bit worried about doing too much and having it hamper my squats today. I gotta get rid of that mentality. Kind of the opposite of you, I can't worry whether the running is interfering with my lifting. And I can't let this idea of always adding weight every week mess with my mind either. I have to be ready for that first week when it's just not reasonable to add anything at all. On the other hand, I'm hoping the rate of increase has been underestimated and I'll find myself able to make slightly bigger bumps once in a while. In any case, it gives me something to obsess about, and yet, conversely, makes the whole process more mindless, which is always good.

Look forward to hearing what you think of Viada's book. I would still eventually like to become a semi-accomplished middle-aged runner, able to consistently run a half-marathon under two hours, so I may pick up that book too if you think it's worth it. I read fitness stuff while I'm stretching.

Good to see you're making a push on the squats btw. Always nice to have company.

Yeah I'll post up some parts when I get the book. I don't expect to learn all that much but maybe he will point out some mistakes that I don't need to figure out on my own. On a couple of other things I have read or listened to of his, he mainly pushes intensity lifts with plyometrics with minimal assistance. Which you have talked me into doing more plyometric stuff.

Yeah I like the continuous increases too, one of the reasons why I am pushing more on the squats. Straight sets get dull and changing weight gives me something to do so I don't get sidetracked working one the bike or something between sets.

A 2 hour half is easier than you think it is in my opinion and I am a pretty slow dude. I think after this point the weight becomes a big issue but you can run fast with 30lbs of excess weight in my experience.


hmm... i believe that is actually a reflection of my mental abilities. that would be your basic typo that is supposed to be "5x6 at 130lbs" which is still progress, just not as thrilling as 180. :)

on the other hand, my friend and i cranked out 16.99 miles (should have run to next driveway before stopping...) yesterday and i am able to walk just fine and everything. although, i did resist the urge to lift weights last night. not that it got me to bed earlier: i just read about regulations on farm stands in my state and how to operate a teeny-tiny farm in your backyard. apparently, everyone thinks that livestock are the way to go. a) i'm not convinced and b) i want to be able to be gone. so, i think i'll stick with tomatoes or something.... but, back to the point, i should have gone to be early, or at least on time....

I suspected that but thought you just decided to make a big jump for the hell of it. Well raising chickens sucks in my opinion, actually livestock is all pretty shitty so stick with tomatoes or better yet pumpkins cause then you only have to pick once a year.
 
Yeah I'll post up some parts when I get the book. I don't expect to learn all that much but maybe he will point out some mistakes that I don't need to figure out on my own. On a couple of other things I have read or listened to of his, he mainly pushes intensity lifts with plyometrics with minimal assistance. Which you have talked me into doing more plyometric stuff.

Yeah I like the continuous increases too, one of the reasons why I am pushing more on the squats. Straight sets get dull and changing weight gives me something to do so I don't get sidetracked working one the bike or something between sets.

A 2 hour half is easier than you think it is in my opinion and I am a pretty slow dude. I think after this point the weight becomes a big issue but you can run fast with 30lbs of excess weight in my experience.
Yah, a lot of people we respect seem to think most assistance is unnecessary or should be minimal. Target the prime movers and everything else will follow I guess. The one area I might work on is the lower back, with pikes or back extensions.

In general, I think most strength training and running books rarely offer much more than can be found online, at least for my purposes. Rippetoe's books are the exception. The level of detail and explanation is amazing.

Yah, I'm leaving drop-sets or descending sets open as an option for my 8RM and 1-3RM days. I like 4x5 straight sets across quite a bit though, for more of a volume approach.

Does your lower back ever get sore from the bench press arch?

Yah, I think two hours is definitely in the realm of possibilities for me, just have to be consistent for a year or two, and it will come. Meanwhile, working up to it should take care of the 30 pounds. 210-220 is probably a good target weight for me.

Doing taxes today, yeech.
 
In general, I think most strength training and running books rarely offer much more than can be found online, at least for my purposes. Rippetoe's books are the exception. The level of detail and explanation is amazing.

Yah, I'm leaving drop-sets or descending sets open as an option for my 8RM and 1-3RM days. I like 4x5 straight sets across quite a bit though, for more of a volume approach.

Does your lower back ever get sore from the bench press arch?

Yah, I think two hours is definitely in the realm of possibilities for me, just have to be consistent for a year or two, and it will come. Meanwhile, working up to it should take care of the 30 pounds. 210-220 is probably a good target weight for me.

Doing taxes today, yeech.

Yeah that's what I am worried about, there will be nothing new. That's even cool because at least all his thoughts will be consolidated in one area. I would be more disappointed if it is a book about running a couple of miles and doing crossfit or some similar combination. DJ's books are like that too, nothing new just nice to read it in a book format vs. the cliff note article version.

Honestly at this point I don't really have the capability to change any of my endurance stuff. The only thing I will likely find immediately useful is the lifting portion. He has, or wants to run a 100 miler so out of the 20 workouts he promised in the book a couple of them should be geared to ultras. Plus he said there would be a taped podcast follow up with 15 additional workouts if you pre-buy the book so we will see. I am priced out of the whole online coaching thing he offers, plus I'm a shitty acolyte and I probably wouldn't listen to his coaching anyways, so I don't think I would get any follow up. Who knows though maybe I could pose a couple of questions and he would answer. It's his livelihood and sometimes I feel bad taking advantage of people that do that.

Yeah it got sore initially when I started using the arch more. My lats still get sore often too. There have been lifts where my lower back would cramp during the lift, that sucks. The only time benching has actually hurt my back is once I had a outer muscle strain from maxing out. It wasn't spinal related and was fine after a couple of days. I have a pretty big natural arch though so maybe the arch fits my anatomy better. On Monday I'll film my bench set so you can see how big my arch is. I think its minor but maybe I'll be surprised too.

Taxes are great fun! Well if you get money back.
 
Yeah that's what I am worried about, there will be nothing new. That's even cool because at least all his thoughts will be consolidated in one area. I would be more disappointed if it is a book about running a couple of miles and doing crossfit or some similar combination. DJ's books are like that too, nothing new just nice to read it in a book format vs. the cliff note article version.

Honestly at this point I don't really have the capability to change any of my endurance stuff. The only thing I will likely find immediately useful is the lifting portion. He has, or wants to run a 100 miler so out of the 20 workouts he promised in the book a couple of them should be geared to ultras. Plus he said there would be a taped podcast follow up with 15 additional workouts if you pre-buy the book so we will see. I am priced out of the whole online coaching thing he offers, plus I'm a shitty acolyte and I probably wouldn't listen to his coaching anyways, so I don't think I would get any follow up. Who knows though maybe I could pose a couple of questions and he would answer. It's his livelihood and sometimes I feel bad taking advantage of people that do that.

Yeah it got sore initially when I started using the arch more. My lats still get sore often too. There have been lifts where my lower back would cramp during the lift, that sucks. The only time benching has actually hurt my back is once I had a outer muscle strain from maxing out. It wasn't spinal related and was fine after a couple of days. I have a pretty big natural arch though so maybe the arch fits my anatomy better. On Monday I'll film my bench set so you can see how big my arch is. I think its minor but maybe I'll be surprised too.

Taxes are great fun! Well if you get money back.
Yah, if it's an insightful writer, it's useful to have all their thoughts and principles consolidated and organized in book form. It's also nice for me to have a book I can read while stretching out. My wife and kids are fully outfitted with tablets, kindles, and ipads, but I'm still on the desktop train.

Viada's well-muscled, so he should have something to say beyond the skinny guy's tips on strength training for endurance.

Ha, I like that expression "Shitty acolyte." I fall in that category too. Never been much of a joiner, except for BRS of course.

Thanks for the feedback on the sore arching. Hopefully this will clear up in a week or less. One of the great things about my gradual approach is that my bench press weights won't be that challenging for another month or two, so I have plenty of time to hone my new technique at lower loads. Look forward to your video. It would be interesting to see your high-bar squats, deads, and press too, if you have the time and inclination.

Yeah, we should be getting something back, kids are useful that way . . .
 
Just curious, why did you decide on six reps as your magic rep-count? It's funny how we end up with our favorite set/rep schemes. Half science, half instinct.

i seem to be a "respond to repetitions" person. and my 1RM and 3RM and 5RM all seem to be really, really close together for most any lift. like, i can either do it a reasonable number of times or not at all. if i do "heavy singles", i would have to do about 15 sets to feel like i actually did anything. so that is the pseudo-physiological reason. then there is the practical reason that at low repetitions-per-set, it is fairly quantized. so in order to get in the amount of repetitions i want in fewer sets, it made sense to move from 5 to 6. then there are fewer rest periods which, being the main time drain, means faster workouts with the same total amount of work.

it is also a true statement that my weight hasn't gone up at all, so apparently i am not going "hypertrophic" or anything. i think i am getting a little bit stronger, though. so that means the power to weight ratio is becoming more favorable, right? (thinking imprecisely, of course, since force and power are related but not identical physical concepts, blah blah blah.)

however, the higher squat loads and adding in a couple more warm-up sets of increasing weight has added about 10 or 12 minutes to the exercise time. like you have been thinking about, when/if my loads reach iron ratio parity with one another, i may have a few variations that emphasize a particular lift and drop another and rotate through in order to be able finish in roughly 45 minutes. i am beginning to see how a squat-only workout could easily balloon into a one-and-a-half hour session.

also: no observed interference between the 17 miles yesterday and the squats today (repeating the 130lb working set; ok, it's not super heavy, but i am doing full range to the very, very bottom).
 
So what do you guys think about sumo deadlifts? Legit?

https://www.t-nation.com/training/6-tips-to-master-the-sumo-deadlift

I suspect I might be able to pull a bit more with this style than the conventional deadlift. Do you thin it's worthwhile to mix them in?

Since switching to sumo in 2010, I've put 125 pounds on my competition deadlift PR. My raw conventional went from 515 to 585 and my sumo pull went from the mid 400's to a 640-pull in competition.

Maybe this might be a trick to building the conventional style too?
 
i seem to be a "respond to repetitions" person. and my 1RM and 3RM and 5RM all seem to be really, really close together for most any lift. like, i can either do it a reasonable number of times or not at all. if i do "heavy singles", i would have to do about 15 sets to feel like i actually did anything. so that is the pseudo-physiological reason. then there is the practical reason that at low repetitions-per-set, it is fairly quantized. so in order to get in the amount of repetitions i want in fewer sets, it made sense to move from 5 to 6. then there are fewer rest periods which, being the main time drain, means faster workouts with the same total amount of work.

it is also a true statement that my weight hasn't gone up at all, so apparently i am not going "hypertrophic" or anything. i think i am getting a little bit stronger, though. so that means the power to weight ratio is becoming more favorable, right? (thinking imprecisely, of course, since force and power are related but not identical physical concepts, blah blah blah.)

however, the higher squat loads and adding in a couple more warm-up sets of increasing weight has added about 10 or 12 minutes to the exercise time. like you have been thinking about, when/if my loads reach iron ratio parity with one another, i may have a few variations that emphasize a particular lift and drop another and rotate through in order to be able finish in roughly 45 minutes. i am beginning to see how a squat-only workout could easily balloon into a one-and-a-half hour session.

also: no observed interference between the 17 miles yesterday and the squats today (repeating the 130lb working set; ok, it's not super heavy, but i am doing full range to the very, very bottom).
Well, since you have an endurance build, maybe it make sense that you respond more to duration than intensity? If so, it's cool how we instinctively seek out the programming that best suits us. I feel like the last year of experimentation has lead me closer to my somatic stimulus ideal, but I've always been a lower-rep lifter, and I also have more of a sprinter's build. Yesterday's workout at 8RM was good though. I kind of struggle with the higher reps mentally, but I got a pretty good pump towards the end, and I think the mental discipline of doing a workout you're not so fond of is character-building once in a while.

I'm not sure I will be able to notice interference. My rate of progress in squatting and running could slow, but it would be hard to know if it was due to concurrent training or just my natural abilities.

Yah, I find I need the longest rest intervals for squats and deadlifts, which makes sense, since they use more muscle and therefore energy. Sometimes my squats take up to 20 minutes of my workout, but then three sets of pulldowns or rows only take five minutes apiece, so I can still get everything in within 60 minutes. I also always do more Squat and OH Press reps than Bench Press and Deadlift reps in two out of my three workouts, to try to spark faster progress in the former two with slightly greater volume. Eventually, when the iron ratio resonates perfectly, I will come close to doing equal sets and reps for everything, but the bigger lifts will probably always demand longer rest intervals.

So what do you guys think about sumo deadlifts? Legit?

https://www.t-nation.com/training/6-tips-to-master-the-sumo-deadlift

I suspect I might be able to pull a bit more with this style than the conventional deadlift. Do you thin it's worthwhile to mix them in?

Since switching to sumo in 2010, I've put 125 pounds on my competition deadlift PR. My raw conventional went from 515 to 585 and my sumo pull went from the mid 400's to a 640-pull in competition.

Maybe this might be a trick to building the conventional style too?
Yah, worth a shot I would say. Although the wide-stance seems unnatural, and in any case, I don't think I will mess with variations (Box/Front Squat, DB Press, CG Bench Press, Dips) until my progress slows on the four conventional lifts. I already do variations for Pulldowns and Rows, though, and I think it's beneficial. Yesterday, for example, I did Close-Grip Neutral Pulldowns, and it really hits my outer upper back better than the Medium-grip Neutral Pulldowns or the Supine Pulldowns.

Edit: Getting back to your questions about your longer wave, 5/3/1 style program, here's a pertinent forum debate: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=124293191&s=93056827d3e2fc345440a979ae4eef47

that I linked to after searching micro loading and linear periodization:
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=157789883&pagenumber=

I've come to the conclusion that microloading may be the most logical way to do linear periodization, because it allows you to fine-tune the rate of progress, allowing for a more fine-grained linear function. I've been able to map out all of my workouts for the rest of the year with just a few simple formulas, copying each week's layout onto the following week. Now all I need to do is adjust for rate of progress (+/- 1 pound per week for the OH Press, +/- 2 pounds per week for the squat), and missed sets or reps. Hard to say how long this will actually last, but it makes everything beautifully simple and mindless after the initial set-up.
 
Hey, a little validation for my instinct that the Squat and OH Press should be the foundation of my workouts:

http://startingstrength.com/articles/stronger_press_starr.pdf

"It’s the kind of lift that has to be leaned on, much like the squat." (Page 4, top paragraph)

Also, a good justification for moving to fractional increases after one reaches a certain rate of progress:

http://startingstrength.com/index.php/site/article/incremental_increases

Page Two: "It means that the more adapted the member gets, the smaller the increase has to be, but that at first we’re wasting time and attention span if we don’t use bigger increases. Most importantly, it means that if we don’t ask for an adaptation we’re not going to get one; if we use exercises that don’t provide a way to ask for incremental increases and then to obtain them, nothing about the member’s body will change."