Concurrent Strength Training & Running 2015: Eight-Week Workout Cycle II

Which one has the lowest risk of injury? I'm guessing repeated effort?
I would think so, although I think ST is generally pretty safe as long as one is working within one's load and workload capacities, doing proper warm-up, and progressing gradually. My injuries were mostly due to stupidity :banghead: .

However: "Also, because of the fatigue, the last reps are often done with poor form and thus injury can result."
From the link in my prior post.
 
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I would think so, although I think ST is generally pretty safe as long as one is working within one's load and workload capacities, doing proper warm-up, and progressing gradually. My injuries were mostly due to stupidity :banghead: .

However: "Also, because of the fatigue, the last reps are often done with poor form and thus injury can result."
From the link in my prior post.
It's not productive to identify stupidity as the cause of a problem. (It's only stupid, if one makes the same mistake twice!)

People can easily push themselves past the point of safety and injure themselves. (It's probably a survival mechanism.)

It's better to take a step back and try to prevent injury. So, I'm trying to work out in ways, that makes it hard to injure myself.
 
It's not productive to identify stupidity as the cause of a problem. (It's only stupid, if one makes the same mistake twice!)

People can easily push themselves past the point of safety and injure themselves. (It's probably a survival mechanism.)

It's better to take a step back and try to prevent injury. So, I'm trying to work out in ways, that makes it hard to injure myself.
Well, I had warning signs, but chose to ignore them. Which was stupid. But then again, I wasn't yet aware of how of how stressful the deadlift is. In the past, I've been able to ignore little strains and niggles while lifting without suffering any major consequences. So perhaps it was more ignorance than stupidity. No, well, wait, the second time I pulled my glute/hip muscle it was definitely stupidity, since it had been only a month rehabbing since the first pull. Then again, the first pull was pretty minor, and I didn't realize how much pain this kind of injury could cause, which is what happened the second time. So we're back to ignorance.

In any case, I'm with you, I've spent a lot of time thinking out ways to prevent myself from becoming injured again. Adopting a more gradual, and quantifiable method has been my main solution, but I'm also working on the qualitative, that is, backing off from the deadlift at the slightest hint of something not being 100%.
 
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OK, reading up a bit more. I've come to like Wendler in general, and on that site, he has other articles where he talks about the three lifting parameters he uses, which are the Westside parameters of

Max Effort,
Dynamic Effort, and
Repetition Effort.

This is actually the first time I've heard of Repetition Effort being associated with Loius Simmons' Westside School, but it fits in with my Stamina Day pretty well. My Intensity Day is just another way of saying Max Effort Day, so the only real difference is my Volume Day versus their Dynamic Effort Day. And it seems to me that my 5RM sets could easily be converted to dynamic effort sets by simply taking off 5-10 percent of the load, either on descending sets, or straight sets across. So, for example, on my Squat, I could do 5 x 200/190/180/170, trying to increase my tempo on each ensuing set, or simply do 4 x 5 x 180 as fast as I could.

The problem is, I have a hard time believing I'll make faster strength gains by utilizing a faster bar speed once a week than I would with another heavy day done at five instead of 1-3 reps, which is what I do on my Max Effort Day. Basically I'm doing two Max Effort Days, one emphasizing volume a bit more (Monday at 3-4 x 5), the other intensity (Friday, at 3 x 3 or 2 x 1/2/3), and one Repetition Day (Wednesday, at 2-3 x 7-10).

Doing five-rep dropsets with increasing bar speed on Monday might be a good compromise; a little more dynamic, but also pretty intense to start with.

Has anyone ever tried a Dynamic Effort-style workout? If so, what are your thoughts?

http://bretcontreras.com/dynamic-effort-training-bs-or-legit/
http://forum.reactivetrainingsystems.com/content.php?171-Why-Speed-Work-Doesn-t-Work-By-Mike-Tuchscherer
http://www.powerliftingtowin.com/westside/

Also interesting from Tuchscherer, see uploaded attachment.
Key quote: " . . . intensity determines your training effect (as in… what happens to your body as a result of the training). Volume determines mostly the magnitude of that effect (as in… how much of the training effect you get)."

By this logic, my program looks pretty good, and I should probably run mostly hills!
 

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I have never done a true DE plan so I don't really know? This guy has some good ideas for working them in for runners. He's actually a big WS proponent so you could probably gain a bunch looking through his articles.

http://www.completehumanperformance...h-training-for-endurance-athletes-part-2.html

Dynamic effort lifts, on the other hand, are much more variable in their execution and can take on a variety of forms depending on the goal of the lift. In general though, DE work tends to involve lower weights with higher repetitions, or lower weight and low repetitions performed at very high velocity, usually with a specific purpose in mind- developing speed, muscular endurance, or even power at a particular point of a given lift. For runners, a DE workout might incorporate circuits, plyometrics, or even speed work that translates into improved running form while fatigued, quicker explosive power, and faster reaction times.

DE circuits are particularly useful in targeting muscle groups to train once pre-fatigued by the previous lifts in the circuit and are ideal for improving running while fatigued. For instance, a DE circuit might include deadlifts to fatigue the posterior chain followed by high pulls to fatigue the upper back, ending with face pulls to strengthen the rhomboids once fatigued. The purpose of this circuit is as specific as it sounds- to improve posture and prevent rounding of the shoulders while in a fatigued state. Alternatively, a circuit might include Zercher squats to fatigue the quads and glutes followed by split-squat jumps and a 100m stride with emphasis on running form, again to improve running biomechanics when tired. A particular circuit would be repeated 4-6 times with 10-20 seconds of rest between each set.

Incorporating plyometric drills into a DE workout can be useful in improving the amount of force produced when pushing off the ground as well as reducing the amount of time the foot stays in contact with the ground resulting in quicker turn-over during a run. These types of drills include single-leg hops, split-squat jumps, A-skips, bounding, pogo jumps, and box jumps. Each of these drills reinforces a quick, forceful reaction. Typically these drills are done for 10 repetitions, starting with one set and working up to 2-3 sets while maintaining proper form. Since these drills tend to be quite exhausting to a very specific muscle group they should be performed after other technical (or compound) lifts have been completed, though the athlete should avoid performing these drills when completely fatigued to the point where form suffers (as injury may result).

Lastly, DE workouts might include lifts that focus on speed development such as speed pulls (essentially very quick deadlifts) or plyometric bench press on the Smith machine. (LINK TO VIDEO) Speed work in the gym consists of low repetition, low weight lifts that focus on moving the weight as quickly as possible. Improvement in these lifts is primarily measured by moving the weight more quickly rather than increasing the amount of weight moved. The benefit of these lifts include dramatically increased rate of force production (the delay from when you “ask” your muscles to move to the moment they ACTUALLY move, at maximum force), improved coordination, enhanced muscle fiber recruitment, and ultimately, improved speed in your endurance sport of choice (provided you are targeting the relevant muscle groups for proper crossover).

Here is the source you might want to look at the sets and rep breakdown he has for the various lifts. They also use a lot of bands and chains for these lifts, its rarely straight weight. This would help with the explosiveness.

http://www.westside-barbell.com/ind...in-2004/359-training-methods-part-1-speed-day
 
I have never done a true DE plan so I don't really know? This guy has some good ideas for working them in for runners. He's actually a big WS proponent so you could probably gain a bunch looking through his articles.

http://www.completehumanperformance...h-training-for-endurance-athletes-part-2.html

. . . .

Here is the source you might want to look at the sets and rep breakdown he has for the various lifts. They also use a lot of bands and chains for these lifts, its rarely straight weight. This would help with the explosiveness.

http://www.westside-barbell.com/ind...in-2004/359-training-methods-part-1-speed-day
Thanks, after I posted that, I looked at more articles, spending half of Sunday morning. For example,

http://www.strengtheory.com/cardio-...ficial-for-strength-and-size-in-the-long-run/
http://www.strengtheory.com/high-fr...rch-on-highly-trained-norwegian-powerlifters/
https://www.t-nation.com/training/sheiko-shakes-up-powerlifting
http://www.strengtheory.com/more-is-more/
http://www.powerliftingtowin.com/westside/

I wanted to make one final push on the st literature. I feel really good about my current routine, and continue to enjoy our interactions and logs, but I got a lot of work coming up in April, so I kinda wanted to feel intellectually settled on a few outstanding issues so I can adopt more of a workaday approach and less of an obsessive one. The sacroiliac injury created a need to know more, and then my natural obsessive tendencies took over, but now I feel like I have a pretty good understanding of what sort of approach will work best for me, and it's more of a volume and frequency approach, which is basically my current approach. So it was good to conclude that I'm more or less on the right track. I'm also excited to have rediscovered hills work again, although it's pretty humbling right now because I'm so out of shape. But I look forward to a week or two from now when it starts to get a little bit easier, and I can either do more reps or start to pick up the pace. I'm starting to come around to BA's point of view that running and lifting aren't nearly as mutually interfering as I had thought. I feel the squats in my quads when running, and the hills in my quads when squatting, but I don't know if it really effects performance, and may actually aid recovery for both.

The only outstanding question I have is how best to approach my stamina day. I could simply (1) continue as is, or (2) convert it into more of a dynamic effort day, with fewer reps but more bar speed, or (3) reduce the weight further, keep the reps 8-10, but do more sets, i.e., volume. I like the idea of making Wednesdays a little easier, so I may go with the third option, and trust that proponents of the volume approach are right. But I will probably try a dynamic effort day at least once to see how it feels.

In general, I'm finding the powerlifting literature to be the most useful. It's just that instead of three lifts, I want to bring up the numbers in six lifts, for general strength.
 
Yep that's a good plan, I am trying to rework some of my next two cycles increases then I can do the same as you and coast through the next 12 weeks or so.

I am having a bit of trouble trying to figure out the difference in increasing between the 5 and 3/2 sets. It seems like the difference between 5 and 3 needs to be bigger than 3 and 2. Or that I need to start lower with the 5 rep set. Maybe I should do more of a 5R @ 80% - 3R @ 90% - 2R@ 95%. I need a visual to help.

You can always combine the stamina volume into a speed day too and make all the lifts fast. I don't think it would hurt any to combine them. In fact it might make it a little safer and focused on form if you keep the eccentric portion slow and stable and then explode the concentric piece and reset each rep. Likely form will be better each rep than just knocking off 8 reps. Fast but controlled, it's probably something I should do. It might add a little more time under tension too.
 
Yep that's a good plan, I am trying to rework some of my next two cycles increases then I can do the same as you and coast through the next 12 weeks or so.

I am having a bit of trouble trying to figure out the difference in increasing between the 5 and 3/2 sets. It seems like the difference between 5 and 3 needs to be bigger than 3 and 2. Or that I need to start lower with the 5 rep set. Maybe I should do more of a 5R @ 80% - 3R @ 90% - 2R@ 95%. I need a visual to help.

You can always combine the stamina volume into a speed day too and make all the lifts fast. I don't think it would hurt any to combine them. In fact it might make it a little safer and focused on form if you keep the eccentric portion slow and stable and then explode the concentric piece and reset each rep. Likely form will be better each rep than just knocking off 8 reps. Fast but controlled, it's probably something I should do. It might add a little more time under tension too.
Don't know what to say about the 5 and 3/2 sets. Around 85% always feels good for my five-rep sets. Using Tuchscherer's system, that's about a 9 RPE for me. I think all my training maxes are about 8.5-9.5 RPE, although with the higher reps, it gets cloudy, because the mental aspect becomes stronger.

Izzy does a nice job summarizing Reactive Training (http://www.powerliftingtowin.com/a-review-of-mike-tuchscherers-reactive-training-systems-rts/), as well as virtually every other powerlifting and basic strength program.

Powerlifting Programs I: Scientific Principles of Powerlifting Programming
Powerlifting Programs II: Critical Training Variables
Powerlifting Programs III: Training Organization
Powerlifting Programs IV: Starting Strength
Powerlifting Programs V: StrongLifts 5×5
Powerlifting Programs VI: Jason Blaha’s 5×5 Novice Routine
Powerlifting Programs VII: Jonnie Candito’s Linear Program
Powerlifting Programs VIII: Sheiko’s Novice Routine
Powerlifting Programs IX: GreySkull Linear Progression
Powerlifting Programs X: The PowerliftingToWin Novice Program
Powerlifting Programs XI: Madcow’s 5×5
Powerlifting Programs XII: The Texas Method
Powerlifting Programs XIII: 5/3/1 and Beyond 5/3/1
Powerlifting Programs XIV: The Cube Method
Powerlifting Programs XV: The Juggernaut Method
Powerlifting Programs XVI: Westside Barbell Method
Powerlifting Programs XVII: Sheiko Routines
Powerlifting Programs XVIII: Smolov and Smolov Junior
Powerlifting Programs XIX: Paul Carter’s Base Building
Powerlifting Programs XX: The Lilliebridge Method
Powerlifting Programs XXI: Jonnie Candito’s 6 Week Strength Program
Powerlifting Programs XXII: The Bulgarian Method for Powerlifting
Powerlifting Programs XXIII: Brian Carroll’s 10/20/Life
Powerlifting Programs XXIV: Destroy the Opposition by Jamie Lewis
Powerlifting Programs XXV: The Coan/Philippi Deadlift Routine
Powerlifting Programs XXVI: Korte’s 3×3
Powerlifting Programs XXVII: RTS Generalized Intermediate Program
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Izzy comes off as a young punk, but his insight and site are tremendous resources.

I like your suggestion. Just have to decide if dynamic effort is really necessary for me. I can get my conditioning from hills and sprints, and a lot of folks, like Tuchscherer, don't think speed work is important for building max force, which is what I'm after.

One more idea would be to do eight reps at 75%, then take off some weight, and do eight reps again, but as you suggest, with greater bar speed and a slow, controlled eccentric phase.

WSB recommends doing speed work with fewer reps though, to make sure form doesn't degrade. So I dunno. Probably just keep messing with it until something clicks. I've been happy with the way Stamina Day has gone this cycle, but 10 reps is hard for me mentally, and if I can optimize the weekly workouts a little more, it's worth trying a few more things. Plus, it's nice not to run through different loads for each sets. I think I would like to set Stamina Day at 8 reps and then work with variations on that.

I would also at some point reincorporate the idea of back-off sets, which is the heart of Tuchscherer's reactive method. He has a nice system for controlling volume, but I don't think I really need it for my six-lift workouts. I have to control volume on my first lifts anyway to make sure I have enough gas at the end of the workouts for my upper body pulls.
 
Nice find, I was looking to do something like this but I always love when someone else does the work. Now I have a ton of reading material to page through...

Back off sets are not a bad idea especially if you are mixing the intensity and volume days. I will definitely consider doing it with my assistance stuff if they do feel too heavy.

Ok here is a little layout for my bench. I started the next 4 weeks to work up to 120 in four weeks? I dumbed the 5 and 3 rep sets to 82% and 86% or two sets back on the table to make sure I had the push to get the 2 rep sets in.

A little ambitious I guess?


Capture.JPG
 
Nice find, I was looking to do something like this but I always love when someone else does the work. Now I have a ton of reading material to page through...

Back off sets are not a bad idea especially if you are mixing the intensity and volume days. I will definitely consider doing it with my assistance stuff if they do feel too heavy.

Ok here is a little layout for my bench. I started the next 4 weeks to work up to 120 in four weeks? I dumbed the 5 and 3 rep sets to 82% and 86% or two sets back on the table to make sure I had the push to get the 2 rep sets in.

A little ambitious I guess?
Yah, but everything Izzy reviews is through the lens of a powerlifter. But he's quite clear about this, so it's easy to filter out. It's still striking how little has been pitched towards the general strength training audience though. I'm convinced something like our six lifts approach and its potential derivations is the way to go.

Wow, I didn't realize your bench was up that high. Nice work! I can't say whether or not it's ambitious. You're basically adding 10 pounds in 12 weeks, which should be possible, just depends on how close to your potential you are at this point. But I would think that's a reasonable goal at the intermediate level. I'm progressing at about that rate right now in my OH Press, but it might be pushing it for my bench press. Since I haven't been pushing the bench press, it's hard to say. In any case, it will be interesting to see how you progress with these four-week waves. I like the graph by the way. I should plot my gains at some point . . .

Here's what a Stamina Day done the way we've discussed might look, at eight reps with decreasing loads and increasing bar speed in the concentric phase.
2015 Cycle 2 Week 4 -- 15.03.22 WORD.jpg
(When my Squat catches up to my Deadlift, and my OH Press catches up to my Bench Press, everything will be done 3 x 5 on Monday.)
 
Your stamina day is almost like a second volume day, but the descending sets should help. It also depends what kind of rest you are giving yourself, it could be a tough density workout if you go through them quick enough. You are definitely braver than I am with that plan. I had trouble keeping up with only 10 reps.
 
Your stamina day is almost like a second volume day, but the descending sets should help. It also depends what kind of rest you are giving yourself, it could be a tough density workout if you go through them quick enough. You are definitely braver than I am with that plan. I had trouble keeping up with only 10 reps.
Yah, Volume Day is a bit of a misnomer, they're all volume days! Reading around Sunday led me to Tuchscherer (who I first found about through you), and then a few more Google searches and hyperlinks, to the Powerlifting to Win site, which repeated the same quote from Tuchscherer, that if intensity determines training effect then volume determines the magnitude of that effect (http://www.powerliftingtowin.com/powerlifting-training-variables/).

So if the Strength Stimulus resides between 1 and 8/10 reps, or 100% RM to 75/70% , it makes sense to utilize the whole range, it seems to me. So that gives me the 5-8-3 wave, or 5-10-3 wave as I originally began this cycle, as a sort of first modification of the weekly Texas Method cycle I became interested in at the end of last year. Then, if volume will determine the magnitude of these differing intensity stimuli, it seems to make sense to do them all at relatively high volume, at least three sets. As long as I can recover, in other words, it seems to make sense to maximize volume at 1-8RM intensities for the most strength gains. If I find myself feeling overtrained, I simply lower the loads or sets or both on Wednesday, or switch to assistance.

Just trying to keep the template as simple as possible. In really schematic form, it boils down to:

6 lifts: Squat, OH Press, Deadlift, Bench Press, Pullup/-down, Row
3 workouts: Monday, Wednesday, Friday
3 rep-counts: 5, 8, 3 (or 1/2/3)
3 sets for every lift in every workout

Options:

Monday: add sets, for greater volume, so 3+ x 5
Wednesday: do descending sets, with either increasing speed, or with brief rest intervals for greater stamina/density, so 3 x 8>8>8, +Speed/-Rest
Friday: add reps on last set, for greater intensity, so 3 x 3+

Modifications:
Increase volume on weak lifts until they have caught up.
Decrease volume or load on strong lifts until the other lifts have caught up

One thing, I think giving myself an extra 10-15 minutes will be key. 40-45 minutes isn't enough. I need decent rest intervals and warm-ups when training at these intensities and volume. But I think the rewards are there. Add in 30% more time, but make 50% more progress, theoretically at least, by pushing things along a bit more. I would think by the end of the next cycle I'll have an idea if this routine is worth pursuing.
 
Nice that layout is very simple overall, I'm curious how it will work. If it goes well I might be interested in doing something similar, with a tweak to reduce volume for the lower lifts.
My question though is what do you hope to gain by increasing your volumes? Are you looking for more strength added by increasing muscle mass? And if so are you ok gaining or maintaining weight?

Thanks for remininding me about RTS these two charts are helpful for me to look at right now.

Capture.JPGCapture2.JPG
 
Nice that layout is very simple overall, I'm curious how it will work. If it goes well I might be interested in doing something similar, with a tweak to reduce volume for the lower lifts.
My question though is what do you hope to gain by increasing your volumes? Are you looking for more strength added by increasing muscle mass? And if so are you ok gaining or maintaining weight?
The increase in volume and frequency (basically nine sets a week per lift) is meant to magnify the training effect of doing higher intensity rep-counts or percentage of 1RM. Part of Sunday's reading, and again yesterday during lunch, was spent examining the whole volume/frequency parameter in more detail.

It seems pretty universally recognized that the strength stimulus lies in the 1-8 rep range, and the hypertrophy stimulus more in the 5-12/20 range. I'm not interested in hypertrophy per se, so it's clear that I should work with higher intensities, as I have been doing most of my life, whenever I've lifted. Then the idea behind our six lifts, 3x per week program was to increase training frequency, to see what that is like. Last summer I was working off a full-body split, of deadlift, row, and press one day, and squat, bench, and pulldown the other, using the 3x1/3x3/2x5 scheme. This allowed for greater intensity per lift per workout, and I got good results. But the overall frequency was either once or twice per week, which many people would say isn't enough. But the volume wasn't bad, at either eight or 16 sets per week, on the performance lifts anyway.

So then I tried the six lifts, ten reps (2x5, 3x3, 5x2) per workout idea. This increased frequency to 3x per week, but cut down on volume, to as low as six sets per week. But a lot of people seem to think volume is the single most important parameter, and that the danger of overtraining is exaggerated. So I decided to add at least one set to each lift per workout. If my tolerance for greater volume and greater frequency increases, I may even add a fourth set to all of the lifts, but most likely I will settle in at three sets per lift per workout, and just continue varying the rep-counts for each workout.

I'm not really concerned about increasing muscle mass, in fact, I'm kind of liking the idea of coming off as a middle-aged meathead. I've always felt like a geek trapped in a jock's body, so mis' well go with it.

Of course, I would like to lose some fat, but almost everyone says it's hard to cut calories and gain strength at the same time, so I'm counting on running to do the trick, which it always has done in the past. In 2010 I weighed a little more than 240, by the fall of 2013, when I was running 25-30 miles a week, I had gotten down to 210, and my strength training wasn't as rigorous as it is now, because I wasn't doing the lower body lifts with any consistency. In fact, I don't think I was doing squats at all. So I'm just going to be patient about the fat loss, and trust that regaining my running fitness is all I need. I also expect that the increased muscle mass will boost my metabolism and aid in fat loss as well.

Yesterday I did a good job carb cycling, and had plenty of energy for the high volume st workout. Today I will cut out one meal, or one serving of sweet potato and protein, for my running day. Then tomorrow I'll add it back in for another st day. I briefly looked into the concept of carb cycling, and it gets pretty complicated, but I think my simple system should be enough. It's not like I'm trying to get down to 5% body fat or anything. I anticipate always being at least 10 pounds overweight, or 12-20% bodyfat. That's when I'm relatively fit but not having to make any dietary concessions, so feeling good in general. And of course, if the global financial system blows up for good, the extra fat stores might come in handy.

For running, my goals are pretty modest, so carrying extra weight, whether in fat or muscle, isn't really a concern for me. I'm not running ultras like you. In fact, I see myself becoming much more of a "running = conditioning" runner than a "running = mileage" runner. Tuesday and Thursday could become some kind of conditioning work on a permanent basis--hills/intervals/sprints/stairs/tempo--not just now as I'm rehabing this left toe tenderness. Then on Saturday I go on a nice, long aerobic run, something like 6-12 miles. I always liked those. Sunday I would rest with god and admire the fitness gains I made in the first six days.

I like the idea of RPE, but at the intermediate level, I think just going by feel is adequate. On my squat and press sets yesterday, for example, I'm pretty sure each set was done at about a 9. I think I have enough experience to instinctively train at 90% most of the time, and I don't really see why I shouldn't always train at about 90% effort-level. The RPE system for fatigue management probably works best for lifters who are seriously pushing their limits and competing. Plus, I'm allergic to introducing too much math into my fitness routine. I like the simplicity of using the 2:3:4:5 Iron Ratio, and three sets all the time, and a simple alternation of rep-counts. During my workouts I'm free to daydream, or get into a zone, which is a big part of the charm of working out or running.

I think Izzy makes a convincing argument for why Tschscherer's school of powerlifting is probably the best for drug-free, raw lifters. So I will return to that site to see if there's other useful stuff that can be adapted to a more purely strength routine like ours.
Thanks for remininding me about RTS these two charts are helpful for me to look at right now.

View attachment 5683View attachment 5684
It's interesting he puts 5RM at 80% and not 85%. Last summer when I was doing the 3x1/3x3/2x5 scheme, I think I had the five-rep sets at 80% too, but now I'm doing them at 85%. I supposed I could go with 80% and add sets, and decrease rest intervals, to make Monday more of a true high-volume workout. But I like keeping everything at a fairly high level of effort or intensity.

How were you thinking of using that chart?

One thing I was impressed by when reading through Izzy's review of all the strength training or powerlifting programs, is how exacting the programming is. I guess that's fine if they're intended as guidelines, or if they're for young guys just starting out with little idea of what to do, but I rarely do a workout exactly as written, and I'm constantly adjusting my routine on a weekly or sometimes daily basis as I accumulate feedback on what's working and what's not. I feel like I'm getting closer and closer to a fairly stable framework, but I wonder if I will ever do a whole cycle exactly as intended?
 
It's not productive to identify stupidity as the cause of a problem. (It's only stupid, if one makes the same mistake twice!)

quote]

Sid, it's always stupidity on his part, It happens more often than not he never learns :)
 
I'm not really concerned about increasing muscle mass, in fact, I'm kind of liking the idea of coming off as a middle-aged meathead. I've always felt like a geek trapped in a jock's body, so mis' well go with it.

Of course, I would like to lose some fat, but almost everyone says it's hard to cut calories and gain strength at the same time, so I'm counting on running to do the trick, which it always has done in the past. In 2010 I weighed a little more than 240, by the fall of 2013, when I was running 25-30 miles a week, I had gotten down to 210, and my strength training wasn't as rigorous as it is now, because I wasn't doing the lower body lifts with any consistency. In fact, I don't think I was doing squats at all. So I'm just going to be patient about the fat loss, and trust that regaining my running fitness is all I need. I also expect that the increased muscle mass will boost my metabolism and aid in fat loss as well.

Yesterday I did a good job carb cycling, and had plenty of energy for the high volume workout. Today I will cut out one meal, or one serving of sweet potato and protein. Then tomorrow I'll add it back in. I briefly looked into the concept of carb cycling, and it gets pretty complicated, but I think my simple system should be enough. It's not like I'm trying to get down to 5% body fat or anything. I anticipate always being at least 10 pounds overweight. That's when I'm relatively fit but not having to make any dietary concessions, so feeling good in general. And of course, if the global financial system blows up for good, the extra fat stores might come in handy.

For running, my goals are pretty modest, so carrying extra weight, whether in fat or muscle, isn't really a concern for me. In fact, I see myself becoming much more of a "running = conditioning" runner than a "running = mileage" runner. Tuesday and Thursday could become some kind of conditioning work on a permanent basis--hills/intervals/sprints/stairs/tempo--not just now as I'm rehabing this left toe tenderness. Then on Saturday I go on a nice, aerobic long run, something like 6-12 miles. I always liked those. Sunday I would rest with god and admire the fitness gains I made in the first six days.

Ha the truth comes out! That makes sense though, I honestly feel a little better about doing higher reps for the upper body stuff for similar reasons rather than just plugging away at pure strength for everything. It's nice to have a bit of the meathead look. The running stuff is what gets me for the higher volume lower stuff. I also have great capabilities to increase size of my thighs so I have to be careful. On the other hand if I wasn't running ultras I wouldn't really care that much either. The difference between 200 and 210 isn't that great on a daily running basis but it can mean quite a bit in the gym.

I also agree about feeding for workouts being more important than cutting weight. The middle age fluff would be too much of a commitment to get rid of and a physical drain. I figure running is slowly removing some, I can live with the rest. I think my focus will be cutting the candy bar's and sugar that I eat on a more than occasional basis.

I like the idea of RPE, but at the intermediate level, I think just going by feel is adequate. On my squat and press sets yesterday, for example, I'm pretty sure each set was done at about a 9. I think I have enough experience to instinctively train at 90% most of the time, and I don't really see why I shouldn't always train at about 90% effort-level. The RPE system for fatigue management probably works best for lifters who are seriously pushing their limits and competing. Plus, I'm allergic to introducing too much math into my fitness routine. I like the simplicity of using the 2:3:4:5 Iron Ratio, and three sets all the time, and a simple alternation of rep-counts. During my workouts I'm free to daydream, or get into a zone, which is a big part of the charm of working out or running.

I think Izzy makes a convincing argument for why Tschscherer's school of powerlifting is probably the best for drug-free, raw lifters. So I will return to that site to see if there's other useful stuff that can be adapted to a more purely strength routine like ours.

It's interesting he puts 5RM at 80% and not 85%. Last summer when I was doing the 3x1/3x3/2x5 scheme, I think I had the five-rep sets at 80% too, but now I'm doing them at 85%. I supposed I could go with 80% and add sets, and decrease rest intervals, to make Monday more of a true high-volume workout. But I like keeping everything at a fairly high level of effort or intensity.

One thing I was impressed by when reading through Izzy's review of all the strength training or powerlifting programs, is how exacting the programming is. I guess that's fine if they're intended as guidelines, or if they're for young guys just starting out with little idea of what to do, but I rarely do a workout exactly as written, and I'm constantly adjusting my routine on a weekly or sometimes daily basis as I accumulate feedback on what's working and what's not. I feel like I'm getting closer and closer to a fairly stable framework, but I wonder if I will ever do a whole cycle exactly as intended?

Yeah I was thinking about using RPE's to establish a baseline and then moving on from it once I get the progressions laid out. I found it interesting my graphs from yesterday were similar to the article you posted. I think with the 5 lb. increases over 4 weeks it will probably be sustainable for a while. I just need to figure out the starting point without making it too easy or too difficult.

I haven't seen much interference from the running and lifting. Hopefully this stay true. It would be really cool to progress on two fronts simultaneously. I think the general overtraining isn't really that big of an issue for single sports. I do think it's an issue for us though, plus young kids, erratic sleep...
 
Who never learns how to use the simple "reply" function?

Anyway, that's not true, I always learn from my mistakes.

TOFP? Fixed!
MCL soreness? Fixed!
ITBS? Fixed!
Calf cramp? Fixed!
Shoulder soreness? Fixed!
Hamstring strain? Fixed!
Sacroiliac pull? Hopefully fixed.

The problem is I always find new ways to be stupid.

Not sure why that happens I always hit reply and post and sometimes it works like it should-weird.
The reason why some of your problems are "fixed" is because you're not running as much as you once were but please pove me wrong.:p
 
please pove me wrong.:p
Not sure if it's worth trying, you never listen, but here it goes:

Those problems were fixed while running, five miles or less, leading to greater running, including a PR for distance--16 miles.

With the ITBS, for example, I had no idea what it was until right in the middle of a four-mile tempo run it cut me down within 10 steps, out of the blue. Never happened before, so I don't know how I could be blamed for not foreseeing it. I learned how to do the ITB stretch and it went away. Concurrent strength training may have helped too. Now if I ever feel even slight tightness there, I stop to stretch. Problem solved. Later that year I went on to run 10-16 miles on a weekly basis.

All kidding aside, I think most of the running issues occurred simply because I assumed I could run with little maintenance just as I always had. I've found middle-age running requires more massaging and stretching -- you know, old meat is tough meat.

For the lifting, the hamstring strain is still a mystery to me. It was probably overtraining, but hard to say. The sacroiliac issue was pure stupidity--not warming up properly and then ignoring a warning sign, not once, but twice, so I give you that.

How long before you disappear again?
 
Ha the truth comes out! That makes sense though, I honestly feel a little better about doing higher reps for the upper body stuff for similar reasons rather than just plugging away at pure strength for everything. It's nice to have a bit of the meathead look. The running stuff is what gets me for the higher volume lower stuff. I also have great capabilities to increase size of my thighs so I have to be careful. On the other hand if I wasn't running ultras I wouldn't really care that much either. The difference between 200 and 210 isn't that great on a daily running basis but it can mean quite a bit in the gym.

I also agree about feeding for workouts being more important than cutting weight. The middle age fluff would be too much of a commitment to get rid of and a physical drain. I figure running is slowly removing some, I can live with the rest. I think my focus will be cutting the candy bar's and sugar that I eat on a more than occasional basis.



Yeah I was thinking about using RPE's to establish a baseline and then moving on from it once I get the progressions laid out. I found it interesting my graphs from yesterday were similar to the article you posted. I think with the 5 lb. increases over 4 weeks it will probably be sustainable for a while. I just need to figure out the starting point without making it too easy or too difficult.

I haven't seen much interference from the running and lifting. Hopefully this stay true. It would be really cool to progress on two fronts simultaneously. I think the general overtraining isn't really that big of an issue for single sports. I do think it's an issue for us though, plus young kids, erratic sleep...
Yah sugar is really bad for you. I have a little bit in my espresso, but otherwise stay clear of the stuff. I like to have a beer or glass of wine at night, and I'm not giving those up.

Yah, slow load increases are the way to go, just as losing weight is best done slowly. I'm even thinking of trying a 2.5-pound increase for my OH Press. More psychological than physical perhaps. But yesterday 125 felt a little too easy, but 130 might be a little too hard for the 4 x 5 on Monday.

I think it would be hard to overtrain at just an hour per day, six days a week, especially if one is progressing gradually and giving the body time to adapt. The 48-hour recovery rule works pretty well for me, and then on the weekend I have 72 hours for recovery. I think I should be able to run 15-25 mpw, deadlift 400, squat 320, and run a half-marathon in two hours. I think those are very reasonable goals, very attainable with a gradual, consistent approach.