Concurrent Strength Training & Running 2015: Eight-Week Workout Cycle II
- Thread starter Bare Lee
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Hmnn, I appreciate the input Sid, but I dunno.
As mentioned above, I don't necessarily integrate my running with lifting, although I might put a 'hard' running day before an 'easy' lifting day. Otherwise, there's nothing about my lifting that's specific to running. If I wanted to really focus on being a good runner, I would probably lay off the heavy, low rep stuff and go more for conditioning. But running is simply the endurance component of my fitness regimen. Strength training is just as important. In both areas, it would be nice to achieve something like intermediate level, but that will be done by minimizing interference rather than maximizing coherence. Alternating days is about the best I can do.
Anyway, my understanding of 'concurrent' is that the 'same time' is a period of time defined by the relevant activity, which in this case, is either a week or an eight-week cycle. I don't think it means running while lifting or lifting while running.
It would seem that this is the concept of Balancing.
This would be Integrating. When cooking, one integrates ingredients, but this does not mean that one uses equal parts of all ingredients. Likewise, one does not have to be equal parts runner and lifter, nor father and husband and worker, etc.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/integrating
to bring together or incorporate (parts) into a whole.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/integrate
to combine (two or more things) to form or create something
I humbly disagree. I think that we can call a Pump and Run relatively concurrent, since it is during the same event. If one has a heavy dinner, then takes a nap, one would not calling it concurrently eating and sleeping.
http://qcmarathon.org/races/the-pump-n-run
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/concurrent
occurring or existing simultaneously or side byside:
concurrent attacks by land, sea, and air.
http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/us/definition/american_english/concurrent
Existing, happening, or done at the same time:there are three concurrent art fairs around the city
since i couldn't paint the hotel fitness center pink, i did the next best thing. i put on "The Bachelor: the Women Tell All!" it was actually pretty great: sparse enough content to let you get your exercise in, but still reaping the benefits of the pink-ness. it might have been worth 5.03%.
Interesting based on the table attached. Bench and DL worksets are in the 90%+ range. These are 3RM = 91% and 5RM = 87% of my assumed 1RM.
Deadlift 4 x 140 , 3 x 145 and 2 x 150
Bench 5/3/1 x 90/100/110
Squat is a little lower for the 1 and 2 reps.
So is going for a new 2/3/4/5 rep max important as what rippetoe recommends in the texas method? Or should I just increase when it feels right? Progression is a confusing topic for me right now. Maybe I could test a rep max every 3 weeks and increase based on that?
Deadlift 4 x 140 , 3 x 145 and 2 x 150
Bench 5/3/1 x 90/100/110
Squat is a little lower for the 1 and 2 reps.
So is going for a new 2/3/4/5 rep max important as what rippetoe recommends in the texas method? Or should I just increase when it feels right? Progression is a confusing topic for me right now. Maybe I could test a rep max every 3 weeks and increase based on that?
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For me, it's kind of the same thing, so I don't understand Rippetoe's distinction and/or your confusion.
On my squat, bench, and press right now, I'm pretty close to my true maxes on all the of the rep-counts, after several weeks of building back up to them again. Any more weight and the bar speed would slow or stall, and/or I'd experience technical failure. When it starts to feel easier, I'll increase weight, but not before. My guess is that all three lifts might go up by 10 pounds by the end of the cycle. The squat might go up even more. Hopefully my deadlift will be 140% of my squat by then, so I can start the next cycle with everything squared up. It's really gratifying to have this workaday routine now, with clear ratios to mark overall progress. The ratios between the lower body and upper body lifts don't need to be that exact, but I'm going to try to keep the squat and the deadlift linked to each other, and the presses linked together too.
I haven't tested my singles for a long while, but I'd be surprised if they were off much from the projected percentages. For the time being at least, I don't miss the singles and am happy working on my 5RMs and 3RMs. I could see maybe testing at the end of the cycle though. Not the deadlift, but it would be good to see where I'm at on the other three performance lifts and set a PR or two. I have a hard time getting too excited about non-single PRs. A new 5RM just feels like ongoing training progress, whereas a new single PR feels like an accomplishment, if that makes sense?
Seems like avoiding singles also helps prevent injury, although all my deadlift issues have come on five-rep sets.
It's cool that we're more or less equal in our loads, it will make comparing training approaches and progress easier. Too bad I can't do anything like you're doing running-wise though. It might be easier for me to progress on the squat though. I think I'm dropping my weekly mileage goal from 20-30 to 15-25. Maybe just three, one-hour runs per week might be enough. These days I want to go faster, not farther, but that could change . . .
I think this is the case for me too, re: knee cave. Shoulder-width or a little bit wider feels pretty good and stable to me. Overall, my squats have become fairly automatic again. My bench and press technique seem to have solidified as well. It's nice not having to think about stuff.
Envious of your deadlifts!
Funny how we've converted. I sometimes wonder if it's a placebo effect. That is, thinking one has a program leads to greater effort on the weak lifts, and perhaps greater motivation over all, because now we've been given specific training goals, but the actually programming might not matter?
This is the directive from Rip:
Friday: Intensity Day
A. Squat: warm-up, then work up to one single, new 5RM
B. Bench Press, (if you bench pressed Monday) or
Overhead Press (if OHP on Monday): work up to one single, new 5RM
C. Power Clean or Power Snatch: 5 x 3 / 6 x 2
Friday is intensity day. It focuses the tonnage from Monday into a new 5RM, or within 2% of it to allow for training-quality technique.
Do most of your warm-up work light, first with the empty bar and then 135, and then take doubles or singles up to your one work set, the one that should give you a new 5RM.
Make sure that the load is higher than Monday but not so much that form breaks down on the last reps. If it does, you picked the wrong weight.
So today for example my 2 x 150 deadlift was a solid lift and I could have easily hit another rep. Which is 100% of my calculated 3RM, or 91% of my 1RM. I was thinking of tossing out the 1RM calculations and replace with an actual 3RM. I would perform a 3RM test like Rip recommends but do it on my 3 rep set on the fourth week of the bench/press/DL/maybe squat?
I get a little concerned with my sense of easy, bar speed or form breakdown as a general guideline to increase, and I think I won't increase in a appropriate manner.
Now my problem is then the off weeks do I do 90% or 95% of that max and then add and subtract 5kgs from that for the other two sets? Maybe a 3RM test could be done every other week since I am really only performing the lifts once a week? Then I could do my 3 rep set at max and keep the 2 or 1 set after at the same weight that week?
btw 4 rep sets are much better for me than 5 rep sets on the DL, I have no idea why but mentally it works. And I think the last rep of any set can potentially be as injurious as a 1RM.
Deadlifts once a week is a pretty nice change, I had plenty of motivation to really push. Knee cave has always been an issue for me, but I think or hope that might fix it? Nice to see you felt similar benefits.
Friday: Intensity Day
A. Squat: warm-up, then work up to one single, new 5RM
B. Bench Press, (if you bench pressed Monday) or
Overhead Press (if OHP on Monday): work up to one single, new 5RM
C. Power Clean or Power Snatch: 5 x 3 / 6 x 2
Friday is intensity day. It focuses the tonnage from Monday into a new 5RM, or within 2% of it to allow for training-quality technique.
Do most of your warm-up work light, first with the empty bar and then 135, and then take doubles or singles up to your one work set, the one that should give you a new 5RM.
Make sure that the load is higher than Monday but not so much that form breaks down on the last reps. If it does, you picked the wrong weight.
So today for example my 2 x 150 deadlift was a solid lift and I could have easily hit another rep. Which is 100% of my calculated 3RM, or 91% of my 1RM. I was thinking of tossing out the 1RM calculations and replace with an actual 3RM. I would perform a 3RM test like Rip recommends but do it on my 3 rep set on the fourth week of the bench/press/DL/maybe squat?
I get a little concerned with my sense of easy, bar speed or form breakdown as a general guideline to increase, and I think I won't increase in a appropriate manner.
Now my problem is then the off weeks do I do 90% or 95% of that max and then add and subtract 5kgs from that for the other two sets? Maybe a 3RM test could be done every other week since I am really only performing the lifts once a week? Then I could do my 3 rep set at max and keep the 2 or 1 set after at the same weight that week?
btw 4 rep sets are much better for me than 5 rep sets on the DL, I have no idea why but mentally it works. And I think the last rep of any set can potentially be as injurious as a 1RM.
Deadlifts once a week is a pretty nice change, I had plenty of motivation to really push. Knee cave has always been an issue for me, but I think or hope that might fix it? Nice to see you felt similar benefits.
Maybe during a period of rapid progress, as with my deadlifts last summer or my OH Press last fall, that approach makes sense, but at my current level, there isn't any distinction. My training 5RM is pretty much my true 5RM. It wouldn't make sense to raise it five or ten pounds because then I would start to miss reps. I think I like a Wendlerian 3/3/3+ or 5/5+ approach better, where, if you're feeling good, you can go for extra reps on the last set. I've done this a few times, and if I'm able to tack on another rep or two, it's a good indicator that I'm ready to increase weight. I guess that would be a more objective measure than the subjective feeling of the load getting easier. Hmnn, I like that, I think I'll go with it and make it part of my wave protocol: When it starts to feel easier, go for extra reps on the last set, when you can do x extra reps, add weight. The actual rep number will be determined by experiment, but probably something like 2-3.
Yah, that's sort of how it's worked out for me. On the bench, squat, and deadlift, I've first hit 1RM and based the 3RM and 5RM percentages on that. Since then, however, as the 3RMs and 5RMs have increased, and I haven't done any singles in the meantime, the calculation has reversed and the singles are now projections from the 3RMs and 5RMs. I'm using 90% and 85% for the latter, which might be a little off, but it's close enough and easy to calculate in my head if need be. A 2.5-to-5-pound differential has to be mostly mental anyway. As long as you're pushing things along, feel a little sore or beat up the next day, you're making progress. We just have to trust consistency and not sweat the details too much, I think, as intermediate-level lifters. I guess what I'm saying is I've never not made progress when I've lifted consistently. The difference between different sorts of programming might be relevant to rate of progress, but not progress in general, I would think. At the moment, I'm convinced my wave approach is getting me close to my max potential for steady improvement. The combination of high frequency and varying intensities seems to work for me.
Well, I think varying intensities is useful, so these ideas or something similar would probably be a good thing, I think. The exact programming will depend on how you react, but I think some kind of wave is necessary. You can't do high intensity all the time. The trick, as you're saying, is to find something close to your limit without actually venturing over the border into overtrainingland. I don't think there are any easy answers. All the programs seem to have some sort of anti-overtraining protocol built into them, like the Texas Method's Recovery Day, or 5/3/1's 90% RM for training percentages, but are they optimal for everyone? I wouldn't think so. I have trouble thinking past a weekly program, but since you're only doing the lower body lifts once a week, you have to work with a period greater than a week if you want to vary your loads or sets/reps. On the other hand, with a week to recover, why not just do the same thing every week?
That's interesting, as I think it's always been on the fourth or fifth rep that I've had issues with the deadlift. Maybe once I get up above 300 again I'll just do 3-rep sets? I think higher rep sets are useful on the squat, but maybe not the deadlift?
Yah, always good to compare notes. Maybe it works like this: go wide enough to achieve stability, but not so wide that your knees cave.
I think I read somewhere too that with a high-bar squat the stance tends to be narrower.
Yeah that seems to be a common theme amongst the guru's, deadlifts are often suggested to go lighter on the reps and rarely over 5. Rip suggests only one heavy set of 5.
Hmm maybe that would be a good approach, once you hit 5 reps on the 3 rep weight shift the max up for the 5RM and calculate the other two? Or 4 reps for my case. I am going to extrapolate some rep weights.
So if I hit 150 x 5, then my estimated 1RM is 172, or 157 for my estimated 3RM. But that still doesn't answer my question about what I should increase too? I guess 2.5 or 5kg increments might be good for now.
Alright I'll think it over for a coupe of days. I think that wave a week heavy then a step back week might be the most ambitious way I could go but would fit well with 8 weeks.
Hmm maybe that would be a good approach, once you hit 5 reps on the 3 rep weight shift the max up for the 5RM and calculate the other two? Or 4 reps for my case. I am going to extrapolate some rep weights.
So if I hit 150 x 5, then my estimated 1RM is 172, or 157 for my estimated 3RM. But that still doesn't answer my question about what I should increase too? I guess 2.5 or 5kg increments might be good for now.
Alright I'll think it over for a coupe of days. I think that wave a week heavy then a step back week might be the most ambitious way I could go but would fit well with 8 weeks.
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Hmnn, the problem for me is that a workout doesn't really feel complete without the deadlifts, but I don't want to do 3RM intensity every time. Maybe I could sub assistance like Good Mornings and Back Extensions on some days, but then again, once I hit over 300 for the 3RM, I could loosen the percentages for the 5RM and 10RM and still get some benefit, without risking overtraining or injury . . .
I think that's an excellent idea for the extra sets protocol--base it on 3RM, and then when 5 reps are achieved, shift that load to the 5RM sets and use it to calculate the new 3RM load. However, the RM depends somewhat on how many sets you're doing too. So even if you can do five reps on the final set of 3/3/3+, I don't know if that means you can now do 5/5 at that same weight, but probably I would think. Anyway, it's worth experimenting with. Today's exchange has been pretty productive.
If 157 became your estimated 3RM, I would be conservative and round down instead of up, to 152.5 or 155, especially if you're doing multiple sets. I used to think five-pound increments or 2.5 kilograms were useless, but I got some 2.5-pound grip plates a few months ago and I've been enjoying going up five pounds at a time. It's good motivation to make progress with more but smaller steps I think. It's probably better for it to be too easy than to miss reps and get discouraged. You can always increase the load during the workout or the next time/week. A slightly easier load will also allow you to take into account fluctuations in energy and motivation.
Going to see what 10 reps feels like in a few hours. I pegged it at 75%. On your ExRx capture, Dos Remedios has it at 70% and his other percentages have felt good to me, so I might end up decreasing the weight if my estimated loads feel like too much. I would still like Wednesdays to be something of a Recovery Day, as per the Texas Method, even though there's no longer much left of the Texas Method in the rest of my current programming.
