How many have solved it

Noonie

Barefooters
Jun 23, 2013
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I understand it's a rather silly question, but I'm curious as to how many people on this forum can now run the distances they're happy with, without any injury...and now I'm really pushing it - without having to do much strength training, stretching, etc. BF or minimalist.

Before I tried running, I would have thought that you just put on shoes and go out for a run...and when you're tired you stop (for most unfit people you would probably be tired before feeling running-related pains). Next day you wake up sore, but not injured. You try again in a few days...and so on.

Now that I've read so much on running, injuries, and barefoot running programs, I feel like this simple notion is out the window. The idea of running, but first needing to focus on so much (range of motion, strengthening, taking it slow, not going fast, etc., etc.,) has got to turn people off of running. Or they ignore the now much publicized advice, and get injured.

What seems like such a simple way of getting exercise is anything but. Yet I'm guessing that more folks are entering 1/2's and marathons than ever before.

As you can tell...I'm confused o_O
 
Not sure this is relevant, but I run to get fit after having a health problem. I had never run before. I run in bare feet or minimalist shoes. I do that because it is the best way of being sure not to injure myself. (When I do too much my body tells me and I stop.) I still can't do the distance I want to (5K) but I sure am having fun trying :)
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i guess i'm simplistically old school and would like to support your original idea which i am interpreting as "just run, but don't be stupid; feel it out slowly enough that you don't hurt anything; keep it going".

also, allow me to magnify the selection bias here. i think i can more-or-less run any distance that i want. i finished a 50-mile race barefoot a month and a half ago. so, i guess my the limit is somewhere above that. but for "normal life", that is plenty. :) now, i happen to be playing around with weights a little bit, but i don't think that is/was essential to determining my range since i ran a couple formal marathons and marathon distances in training prior to any weight stuff.
 
There is a one-size-fits-all answer, and for $19.95 I'll tell you what it is.

Butt seriously, I think it really depends on the person, their genetics, sports background, level of general fitness and strength, etc.

Now that I'm middle-aged, I need to roll and stretch when building up mileage, but if I sit at a certain level, not too much. Strength training has probably helped, but strength training helps everything. Mobility (joints) and flexibility (muscles and tendons) help, but it probably doesn't matter much for slow jogging where the ROM is small. I stretch and massage mostly because it makes me feel good to be limber.

If you grew up playing sports, and aren't terribly out-of-shape or old, you can probably just go out and run, no problem, as long as you do it barefoot, since that will enforce good form. I've also just gone out and run with over-engineered running shoes, 5 mi @ 3x per week, no problem, with no clue as to what constitutes good form. But I was at least 10 years younger then.
 
Great feedback (and accomplishments). Thanks!

My running experiences haven't been positive. When I first started BF I was up to 15+ minutes and never had an issue. I would do some body-loosening exercises, and stretch afterwards. At this time I was reading about BF running, watching technique videos...rolling muscles, stretching, etc. Running BF more than 15 minutes took me out of my BF comfort zone, plus winter was nearing and my tootsies get cold easy (even when moving), so transitioned to min footwear (KSO at the time, have since bought/used min footwear for work/casual). I think with the new footstrike, and the loss of ground sensitivity, you are more prone to overdoing it (but...read on as I don't think I overdid it). I progressed up to 45 minutes, going very slow (like 5-6km in 45 min)...then started getting pains if any longer. In comparison to "DNEchris", this also took close to 8 months...and I was only at 5k. These pains were a 2/10 but were persistent (were still there even if I stopped running for days/weeks). There have been stretches were I haven't run for months, but walk around in min footwear (not to mention BF around the house), and I would still get these 2/10 pains. Everytime I take up running again I start slow, for only minutes at a time...but the sensations always come back (and I'm still going slow). I'm guessing now that some folks are not meant to run! Oh, and I've been to PT's who don't freak out when I tell them about BF/min running...I get some ultrasound on the ankle, do gait analysis, etc. Though they've looked at my feet and say that I have very narrow heels, normal arches, and a wide forefoot...but not fully understanding BF running they're not sure if this is a good or bad thing. They mention orthodics (not throwing it down my throat), but I haven't went there yet. Currently, I wear both traditional and min footwear and play with using one vs the other for work, walking, hiking and running. I would say that traditional footwear is working best for all but running. I can wear normal shoes for weeks and not have the 2/10 pain. When I toy with running in xero sandals or Vivo's I feel awesome, but the 2/10 always comes back. When I walk in min footwear I sometimes get the 2/10 pain. When I run with normal footwear, I'm somewhat ok on trails but I get other issues...and I just hate running in that heavy footwear. And I've tried many pairs!

BroadArrow - I'm never stupid (too far/too fast), I run after a couple days rest, I never run when actually hurting...but I feel it afterwards. I'm cautious about running through pain so this means I run one day, maybe a few days later...but then get those 2/10 pains so I stop. Then I try again weeks later...same thing.

Anyways...thanks for reading :)
 
Something is not right there Noonie. Suggest you post on the Ask the Doc forum with more details of your foot pain. Good luck. Don't give up!
 
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No problems.
 
noonie,
look for a better PT or chiro. someone certified in rehab 2 performance(R2P), DNS, FMS, SFMA. there are some other good ones out there but i don't know them all. i'm learning the r2p system now and am pretty amazed with it. i also do some Egoscue which you can either find a therapist near you or buy one of his books. i recommend "the Egoscue Method of health through motion". work out your asymmetries then find a good coach. asking over the internet people can only guess what's going on. have someone look at you.

there will be some discomfort with exercise but pain is a signal that something is wrong. get help. good luck.
 
Barefoot running is awesome. I wouldn't do it any other way, because it's not comfortable for me any other way.

In my journey of health over the last four years, I've experienced aches and soreness in various areas of my body, which eventually resolved after a period of adaptation. I imagine you've gone through the same thing with cycling.

The problem is when pain doesn't go away or impairs functioning. Shoes and orthotics aren't necessarily bad, if one finds them comfortable. I'd imagine that many people can't go barefoot comfortably, due to being habitually shod.

I personally have had success rehabilitating my feet over the past 4 years, and can now run barefoot comfortably. I still have some aches and soreness in both big toes, due to having bunions, but they are vastly improved.

Orthotics are typically prescribed for specific foot types. I'm not sure that there is any research about rehabbing feet. Even if it was possible, I don't know that most people have the patience. After all, it's taken me years just to get to this point.

Good luck!
 
It took me about 3 months this year to convert to fully convenient barefoot running, coming from a solid base of 10 years minimalist running in racing flats, aqua socks, and huaraches. Apart from terrain difficulty (e.g., mountain paths in Southern France during vacation - huaraches) and extreme conditions (let's see - it is my first winter challenge :) ... ) I am now fully comfortable with all distances up to 3 hours (I really, really rarely run that far) barefoot no problem. I run slower, though, due to the necessity to adapt to the terrain. I can definitively run faster in racing flats, especially on trails. But running in shoes is nowhere near in terms of fun compared to barefoot, and I will not miss that.

I guess that most people get injured due to the transition to forefoot running. That transition takes time, half a year at minimum, even in shoes, maybe more until your tendons and bony foot structures have adapted. Barefoot or shoes is not really the issue here. Barefoot should actually protect you from calves/tendon overuse, due to the fact that you need to build up your soles, and can initially not run that far and fast. I guess most people who really get injured are using minimal shoes trying to keep their distances up, instead of slowly adapting.

Regards,

Christian
 
I have no problems up to about 25 - 30 miles but that is running, not racing, and it took a good while (8 months +) to get to that point.

Yeah but your casual jaunt is well faster (and further) than most of our PR's ;)

As for me it took a while to get to 5k barefoot... had winter not kicked me back into min shoes It probably would have taken 4-6 months. I got to my first half marathon in 11 months, and first full marathon after 2 yrs of barefoot. I had 2-3 years of shod running prior.

Everyone is going to be different, and whats on your feet or not is really only a small piece of the puzzle. Ok maybe a medium or big size piece, but the point is there are dozens of other factors at play here.

For me bare vs shod... my fastest was still in high school shod. Not sure if I'll ever be that fast again period. But since my decade of non running, since I've back back into running my fastest 5k is barefoot (19:26). And I've only ever been barefoot for half and full marathons. I would not say that I'm perfectly injury free since going bfr though. I was able to do a lot more before pains showed up, and I've been struggling with some pains ever since I started barefoot. But overall I've been much better off bfr.
 
Something is not right there Noonie. Suggest you post on the Ask the Doc forum with more details of your foot pain. Good luck. Don't give up!
It would be helpful to know more about what kind of pain it is.

Are you rolling your arches, shin, and calf muscles? I sometimes get pain or soreness in my feet after running, and it's always tight muscles tugging on tendons. Massage the muscles (aggressively) and the tendons stop hurting. If it hurts to massage, then you know you've hit a knot/trigger point, so keep at it. I also benefit a lot from good ol' fashion stretching. Especially my hamstrings. Next, make sure your upper body is erect and relaxed. If it isn't that can cause trouble further down.

As DNE and Broad Arrow show, some people don't need any of that, but if you're experiencing pain, it can't hurt to try what has worked for others.
 
I'm one of those people that do nothing but run, pretty much. No core or upper body discipline whatsoever. I do climb trees for a living, so I might not fit in the normal curve for strength and general fitness. I also love my roller "stick" for loosening up prior to and between runs, but that's mostly what I consider maintenance. Stretches? Nope. Yoga? Ugh!

My distances are typically lower than many, I think. I hover around 18 to 24 miles a week, and only very rarely run 2 days in a row. I turned 58 last week, if that has any bearing.

Looking back on my first couple years of BFR, I remember that for much of that time I experienced what you might call 2/10 or 1/10 pain in my ankles and lower legs. It never rose to higher levels and would likely have been reduced by rolling if I'd discovered that back then. I attributed it to my bones and tendons being challenged and restructuring themselves into more robust forms. I remember having extensive interrogatories with my body to be sure that it wasn't anything acute beginning to tear or break. I was happy enough with my running progress and my body's overall performance and the pain was low level enough to dismiss. Eventually it just faded away and I got to where I could run what I wanted to run about any time. In my case, unlike Chris, that meant up to a half marathon, not a marathon and a half.

There are people here on the forum who love the technical and analytical side of running ( and of much of the rest of their lives as well, I think.) That's how they relate to their bodies and to the act of running. Others are the simple "just run" sorts, like me. I love to read about the thought and curiosity our colleagues invest and share with us. Sometimes. I went through a phase wherein I read everything I could find and even bought a whole stack of running related books. They gather dust now, which is fine.

You will find your own level in this if you care to keep up running and challenging your body and mind. I wish you the best.
 
I went through a phase wherein I read everything I could find and even bought a whole stack of running related books. They gather dust now, which is fine.
Haha, that's me too. Once I discovered there are basically three paces corresponding to three different sorts of energy utilization, I got bored with the details, and left it at that. I think I've just recently reached the same level of satisfaction in my still-quite-limited knowledge of strength training. There's basically six different movements, and a handful of set-rep combinations. Anything more complicated than that I leave to the competitors.
 
Not sure this is relevant, but I run to get fit after having a health problem. I had never run before. I run in bare feet or minimalist shoes. I do that because it is the best way of being sure not to injure myself. (When I do too much my body tells me and I stop.) I still can't do the distance I want to (5K) but I sure am having fun trying :)
.

That pretty much sums up my situation as well! I don't worry about time or distance. I have routes of varying distances. I do roll quite a bit, and find that helps immensely with tight/ sore muscles.
 
It would be helpful to know more about what kind of pain it is.

Are you rolling your arches, shin, and calf muscles? I sometimes get pain or soreness in my feet after running, and it's always tight muscles tugging on tendons. Massage the muscles (aggressively) and the tendons stop hurting. If it hurts to massage, then you know you've hit a knot/trigger point, so keep at it. I also benefit a lot from good ol' fashion stretching. Especially my hamstrings. Next, make sure your upper body is erect and relaxed. If it isn't that can cause trouble further down.

As DNE and Broad Arrow show, some people don't need any of that, but if you're experiencing pain, it can't hurt to try what has worked for others.


The pain is dull and minor, often just extreme sensitivity that makes me think something worse is coming. It's on the inside and rear of my ankle (like the achilles area). 10 yrs ago I had achilles tendonitis on the same foot, not from running. I've been to physio (two different PTs) and no one has diagnosed anything specific. The pain is never like it was with the AT.

I foam-roll my quads, IT bands, etc. I hand-roll my calves, outside of shins, achilles, bottom of foot, etc., and have for years. When I find a knot I massage it aggressively.

The other day I ran in my 3mm xero sandals. I wear these casually everywhere...and like I've said above, I've been at this for a while. Lets talk left foot first. I ran for 15 minutes paying attention to form while remaining loose. Technically, I thought it was one of my best runs ever. As usual I wasn't fast. My left foot/ankle/etc was amazing. Felt great during and after the run. Now my right foot. Felt great during the run. When I rolled it afterwards it felt sensitive, but no pain. So far so good! Next day it was sore and very sensitive. Walking down stairs and other situations affected my gait. This lasted 5 days. I know about starting slow, adapting, etc., but clearly I'm all good other than my right foot. When I first took this up a while ago both feet might hurt, and then I knew I went too far or too fast. But when it's only the one foot there is clearly something asymmetrical, out-of-balance. Might be somehow related to the AT from a decade ago...

To compare, I went on a trail run three days ago. I wore my bulky trail shoes. I focused on the same things as with the xero's, form and relaxing. In the end my form wasn't nearly as good...as I don't like running in bulky shoes. I ran for 25 minutes. Right foot felt great and I had no issues the next day. Going to try this again today. And in a few weeks I have another appt to look at my gait and ongoing problems with right foot (granted - when I tell the doc this only happens when running BF or minimal...and that 'shoes' do not cause the issue...well, what do you think he'll say :rolleyes:).

Unless a 'professional' evaluates the issue, determines the cause for ongoing issues, allegedly fixes the issue...will I ever try running BF/minimal again. It's just not worth it (my time, aggravation, etc.). Thankfully I'm a cyclist to heart with only a part-time passion for running. I have taken up hiking, however, and that's allowed me to get back into photography...so all is good :)
 
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To me, the time characteristic of your pain (good during run, sore next day) strongly suggests a muscular issue, and not a structural one. Your run times and the spacing of your runs as well as your comment about "part-time" running suggests you don't do a lot of mileage. Running in minimal shoes or barefoot is *much* more taxing on the calves than the usual heel-striking style with normal shoes. About the side difference - probably you are using your feet differently, like propelling yourself much more with one side, or braking more on one side, or similar.

I would guess your calves are simply not conditioned enough to do what you want to do. Maybe your are cycling very much at the same time? Building up your calves for forefoot running may take a long time, half a year to a year for most, without injuries, depending on your training schedule and other activities.

One way to build up easily is walking/hiking in minimal shoes, and building running intervals into the hike, gradually increasing frequency and mileage. Of course always assuming you want to do this. If you can run the distances you want in normal shoes without any issues, why worry - just stick with what works for you. You can always walk barefoot for the nice feeling anyway :) ...

Regards,

Christian