Strength Training for Singles 2014: Eight-Week Workout Cycle II

I've been thinking about this a little today and I am thinking that running likely comes easier to people who tend to be on the not-so-stocky side of the spectrum.

I used to be something of a fireplug (5' 9", 43" chest, 17 1/2" neck) and that worked fine when I was riding a bike through the summer and teaching cross-country skiing all winter. I never did any "weight training" but did a lot of physical labour - a lot of it based around getting firewood in for the house. I was running a fair bit then but there was much more upper-body work because of the skiing. Much of the muscle went away once I moved to NYC and my lifestyle changed. After 5 plus years of consistent running I'm still 5' 9" but now with a 39" chest and 15 1/2" neck. I was plenty fit before but running didn't come easily until I began to learn how to do it! My body changed shape because of the demands I was placing on it not because I determined to become a runner!
 
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I used to be something of a fireplug (5' 9", 43" chest, 17 1/2" neck) and that worked fine when I was riding a bike through the summer and teaching cross-country skiing all winter. I never did any "weight training" but did a lot of physical labour - a lot of it based around getting firewood in for the house. I was running a fair bit then but there was much more upper-body work because of the skiing. Much of the muscle went away once I moved to NYC and my lifestyle changed. After 5 plus years of consistent running I'm still 5' 9" but now with a 39" chest and 15 1/2" neck. I was plenty fit before but running didn't come easily until I began to learn how to do it! My body changed shape because of the demands I was placing on it not because I determined to become a runner!
Yah, when I did karate, my bones got denser on my shin and knuckles, when I cycled, my body started to look like a Tour de France guy, now lifting heavy, I'm beginning to look like an NFL safety (albeit with more fat), and, I'm happy to report, since running every morning for a week, I've lost four pounds! Within genetic limits, the body has a wonderful ability to transform itself.

My goal is to run 5K every morning, then one mile back in the afternoon, and then start doing longer runs when I feel like it, probably on an every other day schedule. You were the original inspiration for daily run-commutes, so if it works out for me, you're to blame. If it doesn't work out, I'll go back to the proven EOD protocol and do something like 6/6/10 Tu/Th/Sa.

But I've seen enough people around to world adapt to the daily rigors of their jobs that I think it must be possible for me to recover from a short 5K run on a daily basis. There's a chance it might interfere a bit with my lifting, but who cares, right? Newish fitness studies indicate that ST and HIIT are more effective for fat loss than aerobic training, but I've never found that to be true in my case. If I don't run, I gain weight, and when I run, I lose it. And I think running on a daily basis may be the best way to get that metabolic boost consistently.
 
When I started running again, 6 years ago, I had to battle with myself to run the 4.5 miles home 2 or 3 times a week. After a few weeks I was doing it 3 or 4 times a week because my body wasn't happy with less. Soon I needed more mileage and found a 6 mile route home which became my primary distance, a few weeks later my mainstay became a 7 mile route with occasional shorter runs - then I began running in the morning as well :D Now I'm running 12 miles pretty much daily. Give yourself time - and no pressure!
It's amazing how the body can adapt to different requirements.
 
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When I started running again, 6 years ago, I had to battle with myself to run the 4.5 miles home 2 or 3 times a week. After a few weeks I was doing it 3 or 4 times a week because my body wasn't happy with less. Soon I needed more mileage and found a 6 mile route home which became my primary distance, a few weeks later my mainstay became a 7 mile route with occasional shorter runs - then I began running in the morning as well :D Now I'm running 12 miles pretty much daily. Give yourself time - and no pressure!
It's amazing how the body can adapt to different requirements.
Thanks for the encouragement!. I think that advice, "no pressure" is key. That's how I've been trying to approach it the last few months getting back into aerobic shape, but it's hard not to be a little frustrated that it's taking so long. This morning felt pretty solid though, after a nice 3.5 run yesterday down by the river, so perhaps I'm entering into that second phase of aerobic conditioning (again!). I may start alternating early morning 5k runs with 1-to-2-mile runs now and then bring the latter up. The only real pressure is to establish some kind of routine before the snow hits. Still have a painful trigger point in the outside corner of my right knee, and my hammie is still a little tight, but running doesn't seem to bother it. Still mad at myself for overtraining the deadlifts. Dama's right, I never learn. But it was a new experience, pushing the weights like that, so perhaps it was a valuable lesson learned. Just a little concerned about this click sound every time I get up from sitting, but hopefully that's related to the trigger points and general tightness around the knee and not some floating cartilage or something.
 
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I used to be something of a fireplug (5' 9", 43" chest, 17 1/2" neck) and that worked fine when I was riding a bike through the summer and teaching cross-country skiing all winter. I never did any "weight training" but did a lot of physical labour - a lot of it based around getting firewood in for the house. I was running a fair bit then but there was much more upper-body work because of the skiing. Much of the muscle went away once I moved to NYC and my lifestyle changed. After 5 plus years of consistent running I'm still 5' 9" but now with a 39" chest and 15 1/2" neck. I was plenty fit before but running didn't come easily until I began to learn how to do it! My body changed shape because of the demands I was placing on it not because I determined to become a runner!

I definitely agree with you here about the physical demands changing your body composition but I think there is a general range you have to work with. For example when I was just running alot back in the day, I dropped weight to my lightest about 180-185 lbs. At this point I was getting a lot of comments about being to gaunt or unhealthy and I am the same height as you. I definitely have a larger and heavier bone structure which contributes too the weight and its something that I have been thinking about especially with running longer distances.

Now there is also this mental piece where I am predisposed to want to be more muscular than the typical runner. I also enjoy the stimulus of lifting weights as much or maybe even more than running?

I'm not really sure where I am going with these points but I do appreciate your insight. I think I just want to justify why I think that daily running seems to take a heavier toll on my body. I am just trying to find a way to limit the stress and still feel good when I get out of bed and throughout the day while also keeping the motivation to run longer distances. Maybe doing some lower heart rate training might work, but then I would still miss the variety of biking and lifting. I guess we all have to make our own way?
 
--- Week 3: Cycle 2 ---
Monday 10/20/14
DL --------- 6 x 1 x 160kg
Bench ----- 2 x 5 x 90kg
KB Rows -- 2 x 10 x 32kg
Press ------ 2 x 3 x 60kg
Squat ------ 1 x 5 x 60kg
Pull ups --- 2 x 6 x BW
Farmers --- 1 x 80m x 85kg one stop
AM Bike Commute 17.3k - 34:16: 30.4 km/hr: W 14 W
PM Bike Commute 17.3k - 38:27 km/hr: W 14 W

Went for the 160kg on the DL reps were hard and slower than normal but went up well, pretty happy with this effort. Didn't have anything left for the squats... think my MTB ride Saturday hit my quads hard.

Tuesday 10/21/14
AM Bike Commute 17.3k - 40:09: 30.4 km/hr: W 21 SSW
Lunch sun salutations
PM Bike Commute 17.3k - 49:27 km/hr: W 30 W

Lower back is somewhat sore, maybe from the DL's?

Sunday 10/26/2014
10k run
 
---------------Week 3: Cycle 2---------------

Sunday
Running
AM: 3.1 mi/ 5K, 41F/34F wc
Late AM: 1 mi, 53F/48F wc

The runs are starting to feel easier. I think a daily 5K should be possible sometime in November.

However, later at neighbor kids' birthday party, my right knee locked up painfully while trying to unbend it from a sitting position. Massaging around the quad-upper knee area unlocked it. Strange.

Monday
Running
AM: 2 mi, 44F

Later: Knee still locking up when sitting, painful to unbend it getting up. I have to sit back down and massage it until it unlocks. Still, I take it as a good sign that massaging it takes care of it. Hopefully the clicking sound is caused by the same tightness, and isn't something that's been damaged.

PM: 1 mile

Strength Training
Bench Press: 5 x 2 x 220
Neut. Pulldown: 2 x 5 x 150
Seated OH Press: 5 x 90/100/100
Cable Row: 2 x 5 x 170
Russian Twist: 5 x 75/100
DB Bench Press: 2 x 5 x 60
DB Farmer's Walk: 60 x 80ft
2-DB Bentover Row: 2 x 5 x 60
Hyperextensions: 2x10xBW

Nice fluid workout. Most lifts were just two sets, some three and the bench press five doubles. I raised the weight of the Russian Twists back up to 100. 75 felt too light. The DB Bench Press feels pretty good as an assistance lift, for greater ROM and isolation of the pecs. I'm doing them with a neutral grip, with the dumbbells parallel to my spine. It'll be interesting to see how these compare to t-grip bench press when my t-grip bar with a neutral grip arrives, hopefully sometime next month. The Power Hooks worked great. Dumbbell presses are a nice supplement to the barbell presses, working the stabilizers better as well, and the Power Hooks take out all the hassle.

I kept the 60-pound dumbbells out for the one set of Farmer's walks, and then finished with two-handed bentover dumbbell rows, something I've never tried before. I was too lazy to roll out the 110 dumbbell. The two handed dumbbell rows put me in a more upright position, which really worked the upper back and traps well. Kind of like a Yates Row. I was going to do pullovers as well, but I didn't have time to monkey with my new Olympic sleeve adapters on the EZ Bar. Once my t-grip bar arrives I'll do pullovers with those.

Pretty good upper body workout overall. I like keeping things to two sets and moving along quickly.

Tuesday
Running
AM: 3.5 mi, 38F/32F wc. Marshall-Franklin Bridge loop

Getting bored of the short runs through the neighborhood, so drove down to the river for early morning bridge circuit.

Wednesday
Running
AM: 3.5 mi, 41F/29F wc. Marshall-Franklin Bridge loop.

PM:
Strength Training
Cable Row: 2 x 1 0 x 150
Deadlift: 2 x 5 x 130
Bench Press 3/3/4 x 220
Neut. Pulldown 5 x 150/150/160
Seated OH Press: 3 x 3 x 110
Squat: 2 x 5 x 90
1-DB Row: 2 x 5 x 110
Band Dips: 2 x 5 x Green
Band Face Pulls: 2 x 5 x Green
DB Bench Press 1 x 5 x 60, 1 x 2 x 60 (failed 2nd rep)
Inverted Row 45°: 2 x 5 x BW
Suspension Strap Pike: 2 x 5 x BW
DB Farmer's Walk: 80ft x 60
Hanging Knee Tuck: 2 x 5 x BW

With the idea of getting in 2:1 back-to-front upper body work, I began the workout with light cable rows, which, at 2x10, also served as a good warm-up. Then, as the right knee & hamstring had been feeling 90% OK throughout the day, I decided to try some light deadlifts. That went fine. I also got a chance to try my new deadlift jack, made out of 1/2" pipe. Works better than the wedges.

I was going to do 5 x 2 x 220 on the bench, but after the second rep of the first set I knew I had another in me, so I went for it, then surprised myself by doing four reps on the third set. So my bench continues to improve steadily without even trying. Strange. This might indicate that my squat and deadlift would improve better if I backed off a bit on those lifts too. I dunno.

I wanted to get in a fourth rep on the third set of the 3x3 Seated OH Press too, but I couldn't manage it. In general though, I'm really liking the 3/3/4 rep scheme. It's ten reps and nearly as intense as the 5x2 scheme, but two sets less, so saves time. Getting in that fourth rep on the last set is a good burn. I guess it could even become a 3/3/3+ sort of set, but more than four reps would be hard if the weight is set right for three-rep sets.

The 150-pound pulldowns are starting to feel easy, so I added 10 pounds to the third set. Ah, better. Haven't felt any progress on those in a long time.

Emboldened by the problem-free deadlifts, I got brave and tried squats, at only 90 pounds and stopping just before parallel. Instead of aggravating my knee, it actually felt therapeutic. My knee felt better afterwards. Still, I'm going to proceed very slowly with these. First I'll try to get a full ROM back, and then begin to add more weight. If nothing else, the squats are good for shoulder mobility. After just a few weeks off, it was noticeably harder to get my traps and delts scrunched up.

I'm liking doing the heavy 1-DB Rows at the end of the six-lift workout, after starting it all with light Cable Rows. Nice bookends.

Then I experimented with a bunch of assistance lifts. In that article I linked to yesterday, Bret Contreras suggested doing band dips for those of us with shoulder issues. It seems like a good way to re-establish my dip's ROM without the weight. I would like to eventually work back into doing full dips though. I was able to do them 6-12 months ago no problem. So I don't think they're inherently bad for my shoulder.

I failed the second rep of the second set of DB Bench Press. I think it was more neural than muscular. My mind was drifting by that time, and I hadn't tensed up properly before initiating the set. Still like the Power Hooks quite a bit. At first I didn't know if it was a gear-whore purchase, but I think they will be a very useful addition to the arsenal.

Inverted rows I could only do at a 45-degree angle. A good longterm goal will be to do 10 BW reps parallel to the floor.

I re-introduced pikes with the suspension straps. That's a nice sub for the hyperextensions. The Farmer's walk was brutal. My grip gave out before I could complete 100 feet.

Finished with hanging knee tucks. Oh yes.

So I guess the idea is to work more assistance work back in, but always make sure to get in the six primary lifts first. Feeling really good that the deadlifts and squats are back on board. I guess the scare that I might have done some permanent damage is over. Now I just have to continue rehabbing slowly until the knee is 100% again.

Thursday
Running
AM: 3.5 mi, 50F/46F wc. Marshall-Franklin Bridge loop, pavement refreshingly wet after rain. Walked about a mile of it. I'm allowing myself to walk whenever I want. The idea is to establish the daily 5K without regard to performance, knowing that that will come later if I can finally become ultra consistent.

Friday
AM:
Running
3.5 mi, 46F/43F wc. Marshall-Franklin Bridge loop. Stretched on the Franklin bridge at midpoint, as is my custom, and then found myself picking up the pace for about a mile. Felt great. The adaptation is taking place apparently. Walked about a 1/2 mile total, mostly up to the stretching point, and then the last bit before reaching the car. I love the way other runners just suddenly appear out of the dark 30-40 feet away.

PM:
Strength Training
C Row: 6/10/10 x 150
Deadlift: 5 x 130/180/180
B Press: 5 x 90/130, 2 x 180, 5 x 200/200
Neut. PD: 5 x 150/160/160
NG Supine PD: 3/5 x 160
Squat: 5 x 90/130/130
1-DB Row: 2 x 5 x 90
OH Press: 5 x 90/110/110

Good workout, despite being low energy. Added a pair of plates to the deadlift and squat. My right knee still clicks a bit on the squat though, so I lowered to just before parallel. I don't think I will break parallel until the clicking is gone. Until I can get the loads back up on the DL and squat, I feel like I'm not hitting my midsection adequately. The running gets the legs no matter what, but my lower back and 'core' are missed.

I emphasized the Pulldowns and OH Press a bit, otherwise a very workaday, going-through-the-motions workout. I love the flexibility of the 6x10 scheme. All that is required is to do at least 10 reps of the six main lifts. Anything on top of that is gravy.

Realizing that I would never adhere to my chart exactly, I picked up a little workout log on Amazon for 9 bucks: http://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/0968707505/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Now I use the chart taped on my garage door as a guide, and then write the actual sets and reps of each workout in the log and bring it in to type up here.

So it's a nice mix of programming with leeway for autoregulation.

Saturday
Running
AM: 6 mi, 55F/47F wc. Marshall-Ford Parkway Bridge loop. This will count as my "weekend long run."
 
I definitely agree with you here about the physical demands changing your body composition but I think there is a general range you have to work with. For example when I was just running alot back in the day, I dropped weight to my lightest about 180-185 lbs. At this point I was getting a lot of comments about being to gaunt or unhealthy and I am the same height as you. I definitely have a larger and heavier bone structure which contributes too the weight and its something that I have been thinking about especially with running longer distances.

Now there is also this mental piece where I am predisposed to want to be more muscular than the typical runner. I also enjoy the stimulus of lifting weights as much or maybe even more than running?

I'm not really sure where I am going with these points but I do appreciate your insight. I think I just want to justify why I think that daily running seems to take a heavier toll on my body. I am just trying to find a way to limit the stress and still feel good when I get out of bed and throughout the day while also keeping the motivation to run longer distances. Maybe doing some lower heart rate training might work, but then I would still miss the variety of biking and lifting. I guess we all have to make our own way?
I think your points are valid, and one can never argue against another's personal experience, but my hypothesis is that if you can run x distance on a daily basis, then you should be able to run 3x that whenever you want without too much stiffness the next day. So, for example, if I can run 5K daily, it should be pretty easy for me to get in a 10-miler on the weekend without feeling it too much the next day. The last few days the runs have started to feel easier, so I'm hopeful my little theory will bear fruit.

The reason I want to run 5K daily is just that I feel so good when I start the day with a run. And also I know the only way I'll ever be consistent is to get it done early, when no-one else is awake.

I agree though, feeling (relatively) strong is just as satisfying as feeling (relatively) fast or fluid running-wise. Running and lifting are the yin-yang of fitness for me. Can't have one without the other.

Went for the 160kg on the DL reps were hard and slower than normal but went up well, pretty happy with this effort.
I think you got a 180/400 single by the end of the year for sure.

Yesterday my right knee started to lock up painfully until I massaged the quads just above it to release it. So I'm screwed for a while deadlift-wise. And when I get back to it, I'll be taking it much more slowly. I wouldn't project me reaching 400 for at least a year. I think I'm going to work myself back up to 315 and then sit there for a long while and try to get my squats up to 300. My latest thinking is that my squats should be leading the deadlifts, not the other way around like I was doing. I think I've read others say they approach the two lifts this way too. Focus on squats and the deadlift gains will follow.

In the short-term, I'm going to lay off both lower-body lifts and try to re-figure a good approach to the upper body lifts, to take advantage of the extra time. I think I'm going to add in more back work and alternate between pushing the bench and overhead press each workout, until I'm ready to re-introduce the squats and deadlifts. So something like

DB rows 3x3
Cable Rows 3x5
Pulldowns 3x5
Russian Twists 2x5
Hyperextensions 2x10
Loaded Carries 2x60x100ft

every workout.

Then alternate

OH Press 2x3, 2x5
DB OH Press 2x5
Bench press 2x5

with

Bench Press 5x2
DB Bench Press 2x5
Pullovers 2x5
OH Press 2x5

Meanwhile, I'm bringing up the running.

So this cycle will be kind of messy until the squats and deadlifts are reinstated and back up to full loads.
 
Well I'm gonna keep plugging away at 400 I probably won't retest it until just before Christmas to make sure I keep the build slow I'll shoot for reps of 170 by the end of November.

Take it easy on your knee, those things are frustrating but it's good you are listening to those early warning signs. Chances are its just growing pains with the connective system and some time off should help. Two weeks off is much better than dealing with chronic knee pain for a year.
 
Well I'm gonna keep plugging away at 400 I probably won't retest it until just before Christmas to make sure I keep the build slow I'll shoot for reps of 170 by the end of November.

Take it easy on your knee, those things are frustrating but it's good you are listening to those early warning signs. Chances are its just growing pains with the connective system and some time off should help. Two weeks off is much better than dealing with chronic knee pain for a year.
"Growing pains" I like the sound of that, makes me feel less foolish for overtraining.

Today it feels close to normal, so hopefully next week I can start up the squats and deadlifts again, real light.

I think in general I'll avoid singles for a while. 5x2 doubles is still pretty intense, but having that second rep kinda ensures that I'm not overdoing it. Yesterday I did 5x2 for the bench press, and it felt pretty good. Might have to try your/DJ's 5/3/2 next time. I have all my plates racked on my power rack now, so it's pretty easy to add or take off weight quickly.

So in general, I'm shifting a bit from an intensity approach to a volume approach, probably best for an older lifter anyway.

Careful with the lower back -- are you rounding at all when you deadlift? I always felt the soreness more in my mid and upper back.
 
Yeah I think it rounds a bit especially at higher weights, but its pretty minor and controlled. I'm not sure if its from the bike or DL, I feel across my entire low back and only when I am sitting and I didn't feel it until after my bike ride today? Hopefully it will be gone tomorrow. I kind of like feeling sore every so often, its not that common to feel sore doing the 10 rep thing.

After the 180 goal I think I will start to limit the singles in the deadlift too. I might try to push the bench, press and pull ups next year since I hope to be running more and I kind of want to start dropping some weight. If I could hold onto the 180kg DL at 180lbs that wouls be pretty cool too.
 
Yeah I think it rounds a bit especially at higher weights, but its pretty minor and controlled. I'm not sure if its from the bike or DL, I feel across my entire low back and only when I am sitting and I didn't feel it until after my bike ride today? Hopefully it will be gone tomorrow. I kind of like feeling sore every so often, its not that common to feel sore doing the 10 rep thing.

After the 180 goal I think I will start to limit the singles in the deadlift too. I might try to push the bench, press and pull ups next year since I hope to be running more and I kind of want to start dropping some weight. If I could hold onto the 180kg DL at 180lbs that wouls be pretty cool too.
Sometimes tight hamstrings will cause a little lower back soreness for me. Try touching your toes or putting your foot up on something and see if that helps.

I like your idea of setting goals, and it's been a positive influence on my training, but I guess from more of a fitness standpoint, I don't really see the point of reaching a goal and then moving on to something else. I can see how this would be one way to maintain motivation, keep things fresh, but for me, once I reach a goal or certain level of fitness, I will try to maintain that level for as long as possible. So yah, if I were you, I would try to hold onto 180kg DL, even if you lose some weight. I wouldn't be interested in attaining something momentarily.

Stupidly for me, I think having the goal of 400 too strongly imprinted in my head every time I deadlifted did skew my perceptions of what was reasonable, of how fast I could get there, and/or allowed me to ignore the signs of overtraining. A 400 deadlift, 2xBW, still sounds good, but I think I'm going to let go of that and get back to letting the gains come to me. If I'm someone who can't do more than 350 without risking injury, so be it. I think your growing pains theory is probably correct, but I got to learn your workaday patience a bit better if I'm going to think about goals.

It's funny though, I do have that kind of patience for the upper body stuff. I'm happy just to put in a good effort and let the gains come slowly. I guess maybe the deadlift and squat were fairly new to me, whereas I already had a good feel for the upper body stuff, especially the bench press, so I didn't have to worry about over-exuberance with the latter. Still, I'm raring to go now on the squats. Just before I strained myself on the deadlift, I felt like I had finally figured out the low-bar squat, so I'm really anxious to get back at it.

Edit: haha, OK, IF I did have exact goals, I might follow something like this:
http://www.t-nation.com/readArticle.do?id=1823834
Since my bench press is my best lift, by virtue of having trained it the longest, then I would probably base everything else on it. I should test it again, but it's about 250. That means, according to the T-Nation article, that my back squat should be 320 and my deadlift about 450. Hmmn, I think I like the 3:4:5 formula better. That gives me about 335 and 415, respectively. Maybe focus on the squat for 3-6 months and see what the ratios are then, before pushing the deadlift again?

In any case, it's encouraging that given my bench number, my squat and deadlift should be higher. Keeps the idea of a 400 DL alive, and helps me believe that this strain is just a temporary setback.

Speaking of turning to an upper body emphasis next year, I'm coming round to your idea of a 2:1 back:front ratio for upper body work. When I was thinking of stuff to do yesterday to fill the void of no squats and deadlifts, more rows seemed like the most logical choice. Can't go wrong with a really strong back to support the lower body lifts and the shoulders when pressing. I guess you favor pullups over rows, but it's the same idea. My left shoulder has felt pretty good for a week or two too, and it could be because the rows continue to improve.
 
Another critique of Rip's hip drive.
http://www.t-nation.com/training/20-ways-to-train-smarter
Now I wonder if I was doing it on the deadlifts. If so, this might have put more stress on the knees (in the second phase of the lift). I've never really thought too much about my deadlift form, other than locking out at the top and keeping the spine neutral. Maybe I should video tape my deadlifts too, when I'm able to do them again?
 
while i was getting the children to sleep, i had a thought about the "hip drive" thing. is it possible that there is an implicit logic that goes something like this?

suppose that:
i. for most people, their maximum deadlift is stronger than their maximum squat
ii. the person under consideration wishes to maximize their squat

then, if you can make your squat more like a deadlift, you could achieve "ii" by tapping into "i".

thus, when coming out of the hole, instead of keeping the back close to vertical, you do a rotation thing where the knees and shoulders stay about in the same place, but the booty pops up and back to allow the knees to change angle (?extend) without having to use much force. then you do a deadlift-like motion, just that the weight is directly on your shoulders instead of suspended therefrom.

if that logic isn't too faulty, i think the strategy could work for maximizing the poundage. which is great if the purpose of putting up big numbers on the squat is to, well, put up big numbers.

for me, the purpose of doing squats isn't necessarily about the numbers (which are always fun, but...), it is about a solid leg foundation for running and jumping. hence, i figure it is sensible to do deadlifts in a manner emphasizing the segment of the body above the hips (with intentional linkage to below) and to do squats emphasizing the segment of the body below the hips (with linkage to above).

i realize that as the weight goes up, the interaction between the fixed weight of your body and the variable weight of the extra weight changes which in turn necessitates slightly different motions. that is, a 150lb guy with a 90lb bar (37.5% of total weight on bar) has a different balancing task than a 150lb guy with a 300lb bar (67% on bar). i have noticed that even with my pathetic working loads that my squats are getting a bit of that hip drive to deadlift straightening motion. so maybe i'll cut the weights back below even where i started and creep up slowly to see how long i can maintain a more vertically oriented movement.
 
while i was getting the children to sleep, i had a thought about the "hip drive" thing. is it possible that there is an implicit logic that goes something like this?

suppose that:
i. for most people, their maximum deadlift is stronger than their maximum squat
ii. the person under consideration wishes to maximize their squat

then, if you can make your squat more like a deadlift, you could achieve "ii" by tapping into "i".

thus, when coming out of the hole, instead of keeping the back close to vertical, you do a rotation thing where the knees and shoulders stay about in the same place, but the booty pops up and back to allow the knees to change angle (?extend) without having to use much force. then you do a deadlift-like motion, just that the weight is directly on your shoulders instead of suspended therefrom.

if that logic isn't too faulty, i think the strategy could work for maximizing the poundage. which is great if the purpose of putting up big numbers on the squat is to, well, put up big numbers.

for me, the purpose of doing squats isn't necessarily about the numbers (which are always fun, but...), it is about a solid leg foundation for running and jumping. hence, i figure it is sensible to do deadlifts in a manner emphasizing the segment of the body above the hips (with intentional linkage to below) and to do squats emphasizing the segment of the body below the hips (with linkage to above).

i realize that as the weight goes up, the interaction between the fixed weight of your body and the variable weight of the extra weight changes which in turn necessitates slightly different motions. that is, a 150lb guy with a 90lb bar (37.5% of total weight on bar) has a different balancing task than a 150lb guy with a 300lb bar (67% on bar). i have noticed that even with my pathetic working loads that my squats are getting a bit of that hip drive to deadlift straightening motion. so maybe i'll cut the weights back below even where i started and creep up slowly to see how long i can maintain a more vertically oriented movement.
Well, when I look at the big boys in powerlifting, none of them seem to have that exaggerated hip drive like Rippetoe recommends, and Rippetoe has never trained an elite powerlifter. I think the idea is to learn the right form to begin with, and the greater loads will come later. Rippetoe's approach might be a kind of short-cut that hampers one's longterm gains. I dunno. But like you, I'm most interested in proper form and ROM, and preventing injuries, so if I can't do as much weight, so be it. Numbers are just a way of objectifying progress. I'm not competing with anyone (except Abide, sort of, and then weakly at that). The only numbers that kinda mean something to me are getting close to that 3:4:5 ratio of Bench:Squat: Deadlift. I realize the ratio is also fairly arbitrary, but it's a nice little guideline to have. My Squat-to-Deadlift ratio is actually already pretty close to 4:5, but both lifts are weak compared to my bench.

Still, the emphasis for the next several weeks will continue to be getting this daily running thing established. Feels so good to just wake up and run, but I'm getting annoyed with the plodding pace. Trying to be patient . . .

Still thinking about you running 50 miles in jeans shorts. Didn't they chafe?
 
Still thinking about you running 50 miles in jeans shorts. Didn't they chafe?

nope. i think there are two things at play. first, i always run in jean shorts when it's warm and full length jeans when it is winter time. sometimes i put tights on underneath for warmth when it is, you know, 10F with 20mph winds on the prairies. thus, it is what the skin is used to. second, i'm skinny, so there's not much of anything rubbing past each other.

i have a hunch that the general dismissive attitude toward cotton is mostly a product of recent tradition. however, that is obviously my bias. a more sound principle to apply here is to say "everyone's different. try it and see if it works for you. hold on to that which is good and reject that which is evil." i have rarely had problems with rubbing/chafing/etc., but i also realize that other people do and haven't been able to get away from it except by applying oils and such.
 
nope. i think there are two things at play. first, i always run in jean shorts when it's warm and full length jeans when it is winter time. sometimes i put tights on underneath for warmth when it is, you know, 10F with 20mph winds on the prairies. thus, it is what the skin is used to. second, i'm skinny, so there's not much of anything rubbing past each other.

i have a hunch that the general dismissive attitude toward cotton is mostly a product of recent tradition. however, that is obviously my bias. a more sound principle to apply here is to say "everyone's different. try it and see if it works for you. hold on to that which is good and reject that which is evil." i have rarely had problems with rubbing/chafing/etc., but i also realize that other people do and haven't been able to get away from it except by applying oils and such.
Yah, everyone's different and we all adapt to what we do habitually. If there's one thing I've learned about fitness and life generally, it's that.

I was just curious because I used to be a low-tech kinda guy, but last year when I started running 10-plus-mile distances, in cotton Ts, my nips got sore. So I switched to Merino wool t-shirts, and that took care of it. Now all my gear except for the shorts are Merino wool--it's great for cold weather running too. The shorts are Brooks something with fabric that dries quickly, so I can wash it in the shower and it's good to go the next day. Of course, if I were thinner, I wouldn't have to worry about the inner thigh chafing, but it's still hard for me to picture running in jeans. I like the idea of it though.

Btw, what kind of squat are you doing? You probably know this, but if you're mostly interested in squats for running or developing your quads, then a high-bar squat or front squat, while maintaining a vertical posture as you say, will probably be most beneficial. The deadlift then works the posterior chain. For me, I'm mostly interested in developing general strength, so I've adopted the low-bar squat as my guy. My running will never be very good, so I don't think too much about how the deadlift and squat affect it, even though that was the whole reason Abide began his epic thread, and my reason for participating on it.

But in any case, I think the Rip's goodmorning/hip drive squat can't be very good for the lower back and knees in the longterm. Just looks painful to watch.
 
I need to look into those merino wool shirts the only way I can stop the nipple irritation is by wearing my sports bra errr hydration packs otherwise I have to do bandaids.

Non touching thighs would be nice too. Thats never gonna happen.

I don't have too many good things to say about squats right now since I am I one of my squats suck mode. I think one issue for max poundage in the squat is that it's a highly subjective lift. The easiest way to lift more weight is to shorten the motion, that's why powerlifters go low bar and a very wide stance. The only way a dl can really be gamed may be to sumo deadlift but for a lot of people it doesn't work. That's why I like the deep squat because it goes from to the max limit and then back up. It's easy for me to feel some consistency between lifts. Overall doing a heavier low bar parallel squat might make me stronger faster but it's not that important to me and I sure as he'll don't need bigger thighs.