Mouth is for eating nose is for breathing

From what i understand breathing from your diaphragm through your nose brings more oxygen to the lower lobes of your lungs, which in the long run is more efficient. Mouth breathing tends to be shallow, more erratic, less controlled.

Interesting. I've got to wonder if this is really something that means much though. Your breath flows through the trachea to get to your lungs regardless of the entry point so I don't get how the efficiency can be that different. Your diaphragm and other abdominal muscles control your breathing regardless of nose or mouth. I suppose it could be like intake runners in a fuel injection system, depending on the length and curvature could be different efficiency for different conditions (but thats because we are talking about 1,000 cubic feet of air per minute, I dont think the rate at which we breath is going to make much difference in that regard). For me I just can't pass anywhere near the volume of air I need through my nose for most of my runs. Now on a run where I'm feeling very calm and efficient and its cool, my heart rate is lower than usual and I'm not breathing hard and jogging easy, then I can. Perhaps the trick to the nose breathing is to be a more efficient runner. What I mean is nose breathing could be a result of running more efficiently, not really a cause. My heart rate seems to be improving on some of my runs lately, and I can nose breath a little more on those. I think if I could drop 10 beats of my typical rate when I run, nose breathing would be much more possible. But I think the limit of what I can nose breath is going to always be a lot less than some people since my nasal passage ways just don't flow as much.
 
Interesting. I've got to wonder if this is really something that means much though. Your breath flows through the trachea to get to your lungs regardless of the entry point so I don't get how the efficiency can be that different. Your diaphragm and other abdominal muscles control your breathing regardless of nose or mouth. I suppose it could be like intake runners in a fuel injection system, depending on the length and curvature could be different efficiency for different conditions (but thats because we are talking about 1,000 cubic feet of air per minute, I dont think the rate at which we breath is going to make much difference in that regard). For me I just can't pass anywhere near the volume of air I need through my nose for most of my runs. Now on a run where I'm feeling very calm and efficient and its cool, my heart rate is lower than usual and I'm not breathing hard and jogging easy, then I can. Perhaps the trick to the nose breathing is to be a more efficient runner. What I mean is nose breathing could be a result of running more efficiently, not really a cause. My heart rate seems to be improving on some of my runs lately, and I can nose breath a little more on those. I think if I could drop 10 beats of my typical rate when I run, nose breathing would be much more possible. But I think the limit of what I can nose breath is going to always be a lot less than some people since my nasal passage ways just don't flow as much.

That makes absolute sense to me Tristan.
I've already decided it's not going to be an either or situation, for me at least. Nose on the flats where it want to keep my HR down, mouth on the hills.
Distance is my focus and i think i can benefit from it. The fact that nose breathing slows me down is a big plus, i can use it early on to temper my pace.
 
I don't strain my face or neck at all when mouth breathing. Basically, I just leave my mouth open slightly, and take in air oronasally. Gravity kind of drops my jaw anyway when my face is relaxed. (My dentists say that I have a strong jaw! :D) It takes more effort to keep my mouth closed.

My mouth doesn't dry out. In fact, I have to be a bit mindful at times that drool isn't dribbling out! :D

Everyone is different. Do what works for you!

I do need to use my neti pot more often. Thanks for the reminder, Mokaman.
 
The nose is for breathing, the mouth for eating. It is very trainable and mainly in western culture is it normal to be a mouth breather. I trained myself to do it. I can hit race pace and when i'm full throttle only then do i have to exhale through my mouth. Buyteko method will help teach you as will slwoing down, yoga, comcious breathing.

One limiting factor could be the size of your nasal passages. I read an interesting theory. Since we no longer eat the fibrous foods of our ancestors or wild brethren, we ow have smaller jaws and maxillas. Leading to smaller nasal passages and the reason we need to have our wisdom teeth pulled.

Still, i have a small jaw and trained myself to nose breathe. It won't happen overnight, just like learning to run bf. i know when i've been breathing through my mouth because i start wheezing. I grew up with asthma.
 
Dammit Sid. Since you said it wasn't for me i had to read it. I don't need anymore of that phys in my head. I have gi phys test thursday. Tomorrow is nuerophys and pathology along with abdominal xrays.

This is of course a good distraction and another way to avoid studying since i just spent two hours studying 45 pages of path notes and another ~90 to go!
 
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The nose is for breathing, the mouth for eating. It is very trainable and mainly in western culture is it normal to be a mouth breather. I trained myself to do it. I can hit race pace and when i'm full throttle only then do i have to exhale through my mouth. Buyteko method will help teach you as will slwoing down, yoga, comcious breathing.

One limiting factor could be the size of your nasal passages. I read an interesting theory. Since we no longer eat the fibrous foods of our ancestors or wild brethren, we ow have smaller jaws and maxillas. Leading to smaller nasal passages and the reason we need to have our wisdom teeth pulled.

Still, i have a small jaw and trained myself to nose breathe. It won't happen overnight, just like learning to run bf. i know when i've been breathing through my mouth because i start wheezing. I grew up with asthma.

What is it that's being trained Mike? Are there specific muscles involved in nose breathing, or is it just a case of getting used to a new way of doing something, training muscle memory?
If you're busy do what you've got to do and ignore, will look into the Buyteko method, thanks.
 
From what i understand breathing from your diaphragm through your nose brings more oxygen to the lower lobes of your lungs, which in the long run is more efficient. Mouth breathing tends to be shallow, more erratic, less controlled.

Your diaphragm doesn't know or care which way the air gets in. And "less controlled" is good in general with breathing. It should be relaxed and autonomic.

All these people who say belly breathe, don't move your chest, yada yada, they're encouraging you to only take half breaths by claiming that you take a different kind of half-breath. A full breath is done with both the diaphragm and chest. I suppose some dishonest or misled alternative-med types might point out that nose-breathing is mainly diaphragmatic, but that's a matter of restricted airflow and low oxygen need. Everyone's seen someone startled out of sleep - what do they do? They take a full breath, something they weren't doing while they were unconsciously belly breathing. Their rib cage expands so they can fill their entire lungs, instead of the half-breathing they were doing at rest. The last breath they take through their nose is loud and drawn out, and then they wake up and use their mouths.

To completely fill your lungs through your nose takes too long to be practical during athletic activity. So nose-breathers resort to taking half-breaths instead, pretending that belly-breathing is a full breath. Only a full breath is a full breath! Fill the entire lung.

Run 400 meters as fast as you can and then observe your breath. You'll almost surely be taking full breaths as you recover. Don't micromanage it.
 
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Well said Kozz, I completely agree with your post. There is no way I can "just" breathe through nose while running. I've tried and almost passed out due to lack of oxygen. ;) I find that when I run at a decent pace that both nose and mouth is used for breathing. Again everyone is different, do what works for you but don't over think the small stuff, remember to relax and enjoy your runs.
 
For me i'm not interested in sprints or short races so i'm eager to learn about any techniques that teach relaxation, i'm certainly not in the mind to dismiss Yoga techniques and practices that have stood the test of time for thousands of years.
My journey however isn't everyone else's journey, I do my thing and will naturally gravitate towards anyone who shares my path. It's also good to here a cross section of experiences as long as it remains open and objective.
'There are no answers only choices' Solaris
 
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I can only nose breath at slower paces and thats with a slow full breath not a fast half breath...I don't do it often and its good for variety and relaxing once you get the hang of it.
 
To completely fill your lungs through your nose takes too long to be practical during athletic activity.

Agreed.
As most of the others mention here I too can only use nose breathing when running at a really low pace and on a flat terrain.
 
you nay sayers are all wrong! :p

ha. now that's out of the way. it only feels like you're taking in more air because your mouth is bigger than your nose. true. your diaphragm is a muscle and it's under utilized by most people. i should've clarified too that just because you breathe through your nose doesn't mean you have your diaphragm engaged. it's a muscle that needs to be trained. stress, fear, hyperventilating, rapid breathing, all of these tend to be without the diaphragm and done by the SUPPORTING upper lung muscles. pec minor, scalenes, etc.

those muscles are small in comparison to your diaphragm. your D is big and well, in a cadaver at least, like a big tire innertube. using that pulls the lungs down and out so you can fill more of your lungs. we mostly put air into the middle portion whether or not you use your D or your accessory breathing muscles.

the nose has 3-4 turbinates in it to warm the air coming in and trap dust particles. your mouth does not. they also trap moisture going out, your mouth does not. slow, controlled deep breathing will bring in more air. upper chest breathing does not.

everybody is the same. anatomical variation is small. saying that is like saying you were designed to wear shoes and heel strike. it takes training for us adults. look at babies and small children. diaphragmatic belly breathers. stress, habit, learned behavior, posture, all turn us adults into mouth or at least upper chest breathers.

i sit a lot now and will notice after being hunched over that i'm not taking full belly breaths. still breathing through my nose yet shorter upper chest breathing.

i'm sure you guys will have fun with that. thanks for the studyy distraction. i'm always looking for a good one. ;) i can probably check back in tomorrow night as my friday morning test is only a patient interview with han actor. i hear it's so much fun.

i've said it before. i use to mouth breathe. it took time but since i was extremly slow and new to running i forced myself to nose breathe. look at it this way. if you want to slow down and run aerobic, teach yourself deep, diaphragmatic nose breathing. if you don't want to change then don't. i'm not calling you names, other than mouth breather. i doubt anyone else is calling you names but at least if they do you can punch them since they aren't hiding behind a computer screen. :)

enjoy now. i have two hard tests to study for tonight and a third one. thanks again for the distraction.

ske, i can send you the book for the buteyko method in a couple of weeks if you IM me your email address.
 
"Although we usually prefer to breathe through our noses like other mammals, we obligatorily switch to breathing through the nose and mouth or just the mouth when we exercise vigorously for a long time.
...
Obligate mouth breathing thus appears to be a uniquely human trait, probably an adaptation to minimize air-flow resistance in a relatively small, snoutless nose during endurance activities. In other words, if we had ape-sized snouts and noses, then we might respire primarily through our noses."

THE EVOLUTION OF THE HUMAN HEAD
By Daniel E. Lieberman
 
"Although we usually prefer to breathe through our noses like other mammals, we obligatorily switch to breathing through the nose and mouth or just the mouth when we exercise vigorously for a long time.
...
Obligate mouth breathing thus appears to be a uniquely human trait, probably an adaptation to minimize air-flow resistance in a relatively small, snoutless nose during endurance activities. In other words, if we had ape-sized snouts and noses, then we might respire primarily through our noses."

THE EVOLUTION OF THE HUMAN HEAD
By Daniel E. Lieberman
The above post is not directed towards Mike. ;)
 
"Oral breathing during exercise may have an additional thermoregulatory benefit. Muscles generate considerable heat during vigorous exercise. Oral respiration may cut down on heat recovery by the nasal muscoa, helping the body dump heat, but at the cost of increased water loss."

THE EVOLUTION OF THE HUMAN HEAD
By Daniel E. Lieberman
 
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you nay sayers are all wrong! :p

So far i'm likening my experience to going on a diet. Eating too much we all know is bad for us but when we restrict calories to a healthy amount the body protests for a while even though what we are doing is better for us. We get cravings for comfort food, chocolate cake and the old ways until we adapt.
ATM i'm getting oxygen cravings whilst nose breathing, but even after just a few days it's getting better.

I really want to experience new ideas more than set roots. To remain fluid and open to new possibilities is what keeps me young at heart and my running fresh and challenging.

i can send you the book for the buteyko method in a couple of weeks if you IM me your email address.

Thanks for the offer Mike, you put me on a trail and that's all i needed, but much appreciated. You are a good teacher and i've learned a lot from you over the years, about life and running :)
 
http://www.outsideonline.com/fitnes...ld-I-Breathe-Through-My-Nose-or-My-Mouth.html

“Almost everybody breathes nasally at rest,” he continues. “As you start to do light exercise, you’ll continue to breathe through the nose entirely until you’re at about two to three times your resting breathing rate.” At that point, you’ll start breathing through your mouth. And once you exceed four to six times your resting breathing rate—taking in 20 to 35 liters of air per minute—“everyone in the world is a mouth breather,” Shaffrath says. “You can’t push 21 liters of air through your nose comfortably.”

2 to 3 times your resting breathing rate, I wonder if that's also comparable to 2-3 times your resting heart rate.

From this article's links according to Scott Jurek

"I even tinkered with my breathing. I knew from reading Spontaneous Healing that mindful, deep breathing could help the body re-pair itself. And in yoga (which I struggled with until I understood that it was a practice, not a competition), I learned the concept of Pranayama (literally, "extension of the life force" breathing), which would help, not just my body, but my mind and emotions as well. I picked up a book called Body, Mind, and Sport, by John Douillard, and learned that breathing through the nose rather than the mouth low-ers one's heart rate and helps brain activity. A yogi announced in class that "the nose is for breathing, the mouth is for eating" I experimented. I took easy, loping hour runs along Lake Washington. It was flat and damp, and the wind was blowing me sideways. I didn't worry about speed or form. I focused only on breathing in and out through my nose. It was like when I was a kid, teaching myself to relax. I tried doing the same thing on runs that required more effort, and found it very difficult, especially climbing. But from my experimenting, I trained myself to breathe from my diaphragm, to "belly breathe rather than to breathe from my chest. "

And one more idea for exhaling through the mouth.

http://www.yogajournal.com/article/practice-section/how-to-exhale-in-pranayama/

"What’s more, the passage of air through the nostrils shifts in dominance every two to four hours. This means that every couple of hours either the right or the left nostril becomes more open to receiving airflow than the other. The prominent nostril has a specific effect on the hypothalamic functions via the olfactory nerve. Breathing through the right tends to activate the system; breathing through the left tends to calm it.
Experiment with your own breath. When you are feeling sluggish and fatigued, concentrate on breathing through your right nostril. When you are stressed or agitated, breathe through your left."

This is interesting too, I had significant damage to my left nostril when I was younger and it has always impacted air capacity on that side. I wonder if that cause extra stress...

Your right it would be interesting to experiment for a while. The in through the nose out through the mouth seems to be a little bit easier while running and biking for me, likely due to the nasal widening that happens when I breathe in.
 

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