Winter Challenge - 2013

Perfect sunny day for a winter run ... 10 miles at 12°F (-11C).

Finally, the roads dried up and the salty slush is gone. Still have to deal with salt nuggets, but it certainly was a lot better than last weekend.
Pretty good cold tolerance YOW! I can run at that temp too, but I've never done it for a whole ten miles. Don't know if I could. Maybe this winter . . .

Last week was a bad week for running, let alone barefoot running. First, I stubbed my toe at the beginning of my run 9 days ago, on Saturday. It didn't feel too bad, so I ran 10 miles on it. But in the evening it really started to hurt. That put me out of commission for a few days. Then we got our first serious snow on Wednesday, and then since Thursday it's been close to Winterpeg cold and will be until the middle of this week or later (we usually don't get this cold until January). And now this morning we're getting a light dusting of snow.

These events have led to me getting in my first shod run of the season this morning, a one-mile run-commute. Felt terrible to run in shoes, but it's around -2F/-12F wc (about -20C/-25Cwc), and there's no way I'm going to run in those temps on top of fresh snow, at least not after a whole week off, even if it's just a mile. It would be too much of a shock I think. Herr Fahrenheit was right, 0F is pretty damn cold. But at least I'm running again. After a week off, it feels like forever since I last ran.

I measured the surface temp of the bridge I have to cross on my commute, both the snow and a few dry patches, and both were about the same as the air temp. I'm going to try to get in a longish shod run this aft, 9-10 miles, when the high should be around 10F/-12C. It will be my longest shod run ever I think.

So, anyway, doesn't look like I'll make 1000 barefoot miles for the year, but I should still be able to make 1000 total miles.

I got my handheld weather station last week. I didn't realize it doesn't take spot measurements. You have to wait several minutes for it to hone in on the temp, but at least the windchill calculation is synchronous with the temp measurement. If I have to wait for temp readings it will be of limited utility on cold barefoot runs, because I'm not going to stand around with bare feet, and so I might return it. Still, on my fairgrounds runs, I suppose I can set it on top of my car and check in on the temp and windchill after each back-n-forth. Or I could set it somewhere at the beginning of a run and wait for the measurement while I stay warm in my car. I'm really trying to do everything to avoid risk of frostnip this year! It would be great if I could accurately predict how bareable a run is going to be, although of course, I'll continue to bring back-up along if there's the least chance of getting into trouble.
 
Pretty good cold tolerance YOW! ... and there's no way I'm going to run in those temps on top of fresh snow, at least not after a whole week off, even if it's just a mile ... I'll continue to bring back-up along if there's the least chance of getting into trouble.

Sorry to hear about your toe Lee. I'm been down that road too. I busted one walking on a rocky beach a couple years ago.
I find fresh snow difficult to run on too. It seems to suck the heat out of my faster.
Very good strategy to bring backup footwear. I still do this. Yesterday a carried my plasti-dip socks.
 
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Sorry to hear about your toe Lee. I'm been down that road too. I busted one walking on a rocky beach a couple years ago.
I find fresh snow difficult to run on too. It seems to suck the heat out of my faster.
Very good strategy to bring backup footwear. I still do this. Yesterday a carried my plasti-dip socks.
Yah, I've stubbed my two twice before while running barefoot, both times last year. The first time was in June while I was looking down at my new Garmin (I'd never had one before) and then hitting an uneven sidewalk block, and the other time was last winter, earlier in the season, towards the end of a run, also on a curb like this last time. On the second stubbing I had to limp home because of the pain, despite having pretty numb feet at the time, and ended up losing my toe nail. This last time nine days ago it was pretty minor, just a little scrap, but I probably should've aborted the run. I wanted to keep going though, because I knew I only had a few days left of bareable conditions, and I wanted to get to 300 kilomters before winter set in for the long haul. Nonetheless, it might've been better to let it rest a day and then have gone out the next day. I might've been able to run more last week, both bare and shod, overall. In any case, it was pretty minor and it's 90% healed now.

Glad to hear others have trouble with the snow too. I've read some say they can run through fresh snow and wonder how they do it. Last winter, which was my second winter of barefoot running, and after at least a month of methodically testing my tolerances, I ran for a little over a mile in fresh snow just an inch deep or so, before I noticed that three of my toes had turned white. I put on shoes and continued my run. I should've brought socks with me too, and probably should've headed straight back home. When I got home I was in serious pain for two hours, and then I ended up molting all of my plantar calluses over the next several weeks. Mild frostnip I guess. No lasting damage or sensitivity though, so I'm glad I caught it in time. This year: no snow! And I'm always bringing socks along as well as back-up footwear for anything close to borderline.
 
Update - Dec 8th 2013

Rick Turner and nisto had top mileage for the week. As a group we got in 100 miles (16o km), and we are up to 48 participants.

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how do you do that without injury? Yesterday I did 2.8k in 9F and got frost-nipped.

Or is that just something Canadians are used to? Do your nerve endings just die off and then it doesn't hurt anymore?

Must be the ice in our veins. Bob and dutchie are the crazy ones (-2os), and dutchie is walking. Pick a sunny day with dry asphalt and you'll find running in the teens (°F) is comfortable.
 
WOOHOO!!!!!
Just broke -30 degrees with a balmy -33 for .95km (just couldn't squeeze out that last few steps, my house was too close) :coldfeet: . That was the temp I was shooting for this winter now I just need to add a bit more distance on for the next one. Maybe if I pick a clear asphalt path during the day instead of a snow packed pathway at 8:00 pm.
 
WOOHOO!!!!!
Just broke -30 degrees with a balmy -33 for .95km (just couldn't squeeze out that last few steps, my house was too close) :coldfeet: . That was the temp I was shooting for this winter now I just need to add a bit more distance on for the next one. Maybe if I pick a clear asphalt path during the day instead of a snow packed pathway at 8:00 pm.
Congrats Bob, that's amazing!
Just curious, what was the air temp?
We've been running about 5C above you guys, air temp, with some wicked windchills the last few days--around -25 to -30 C.
No way I could run a kilometer in that I think, and I'm definitely not going to try and find out.
Yesterday I put snow tires on my wife's car and nearly froze my fingers during the short intervals when I had to take off my gloves.
More snow last night, just an inch or so.
No bareable tours for the foreseeable future.
Might not see dry asphalt for the rest of the month.
But it's been fun running in shoes this week for the first time this season.
I like the extra workout the snow gives you.
I've been doing fartleks.
Seems like the best approach in snow.
And the Vivobarefoot Neo Trails work well.
 
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Congrats Bob, that's amazing!
Just curious, what was the air temp?
We've been running about 5C above you guys, air temp, with some wicked windchills the last few days--around -25 to -30 C.
No way I could run a kilometer in that I think, and I'm definitely not going to try and find out.
Yesterday I put snow tires on my wife's car and nearly froze my fingers during the short intervals when I had to take off my gloves.
More snow last night, just an inch or so.
No bareable tours for the foreseeable future.
Might not see dry asphalt for the rest of the month.
But it's been fun running in shoes this week for the first time this season.
I like the extra workout the snow gives you.
I've been doing fartleks.
Seems like the best approach in snow.
And the Vivobarefoot Neo Trails work well.

The air temp was about -26 degrees. My route was really open to the wind and I could definitely feel it on the way back. I had my mukluks with me just in case I ran into any trouble. Never lost feeling in my toes and they never went beyond that tingling feeling. We are suppose to drop to -40 tonight with the WC, I am tempted to give it a go but a little apprehensive at the same time.
 
The air temp was about -26 degrees. My route was really open to the wind and I could definitely feel it on the way back. I had my mukluks with me just in case I ran into any trouble. Never lost feeling in my toes and they never went beyond that tingling feeling. We are suppose to drop to -40 tonight with the WC, I am tempted to give it a go but a little apprehensive at the same time.
Incredible Bob! We got -33 C windchill this morning (-20 C air temp). I couldn't imagine running more than a block bare in that. Thank god everything's covered in snow so I'm not even tempted.

Yesterday when picking up my daughter at Discovery Club (an after-school program), the director noted, while eying my feet shod in Neo Trails, "it's even too cold for you I see." (People at the school are pretty relaxed about my barefootedness.)

This is our coldest December so far in 20 years. I imagine it's the same for you folks in Winterpeg, since we tend to share the same weather system. I may not get in any bare running this month, but I'm going to visit some relatives in California in January, so hopefully I can get in some skin-to-ground running first thing in the morning before everyone wakes up. I miss the soleful stimulation--it's been 10 days already.
 
Yup, I know the feeling I was going to go for a jaunt last night at -34 after my youngest went to bed but he disagreed with me and decided to stay up until almost 10. By the time he passed out, I was to tired and there was no way I could keep my feet going fast enough to keep the heat flowing. We will see what tonight brings. But if it keeps like this, I might be stuck on 240 km for a while yet. Temps here are usually about -9 this time of year and we have been well below -30 with the WC for the last two weeks. Even a few dips into the -40's (and I am not there yet).
 
Yesterday it warmed up, but was still about -5C below average, with a high of about -9C, no windchill. There were some patches of wet pavement showing through the recent snowfalls, so I drove up to my fairgrounds street hopeful that I'd find some bareable stretches on it. My feet were really getting itchy for some soleful stimulation. It had been almost two weeks since I last ran bare. But the streets up there were all still covered with compacted snow.

So I drove to the adjoining suburb to see if the bike path along the road going up to my son's daycare was clear. Almost. A lot of long patches of pavement showing through but nothing really contiguous. Then I drove around the U of M campus until I found a long block of clear but wet pavement with little traffic, running along the experimental fields. Problem was, it was a no parking without permit street. So I parked on the other side of a busy street perpendicular to it, just inside my neighborhood, and set out on the slushy street.

Just as I stepped out, however, a woman with a Spanish accent who had just parked behind me asked me if it was alright to park there. So we both went to double check the nearby street sign and make sure. Yep, no parking between 8 am and 4pm on weekdays, but it was after 4pm, so we were good. My feet weren't good though. They were going numb quickly with this pre-run pause in the action.

So I hoofed it to get over to the other side of the busy street and out of the slush. My feet were still going numb pretty rapidly, so I jumped onto the dry sidewalk. Unfortunately, it was dry because the snow had been melted with salt or some chemical equivalent. My feet's numb-plunge began to stabilize, but I didn't want to risk a salt/chemical burn, as little lumps of salt/chemical and dry, white, salty residue were covering most of the sidewalk. So I jumped back out onto the wet, somewhat slushy street.

My feet felt fine . . . fine . . . bad . . . fine . . . fine . . . bad . . . fine . . . bad . . . bad . . . fine . . . bad . . . bad . . . bad . . . shit! I jumped back onto the sidewalk and sat down on it to put on my Vapor Trails, and then ran back to my car to put on socks.

Everything seemed OK so I drove back to my fairgrounds street to run a bit more shod, now with my Vivo Neo Trails on, on the compacted snow and smatterings of slush, but I had spent so much time driving, monkeying around trying to find clear pavement, and then abandoning my first attempt, that I didn't have much time left before I had to go pick up the kids. So I just got in a couple of kilometers of fartleks.

Then later when my feet had warmed up completely I realized I had done it again. I had gotten mild frostnip on my toes. Not nearly as serious as last winter, but I needed a few ales and some spicy stir-fry to dull the hot pain. Today they're still a little painful, but not distractingly so.

Dumb, dumb, dumb. I think if it had been close to freezing I could've managed the wet pavement, but at nearly -10C, and starting out in slush, it was too much. Lesson learned, hopefully.

Now I just hope my toe calluses don't molt, like they did last year. Actually last year my whole plantar callus came off, but this time it was just the tips of my toes that got nipped.
 
Lee, what ever happened to keeping feet dry when we venture in freezing temps? :) Hope you don't loose too much of the pads. They plowed the roads in my neighborhood down too bare pavement, so since my feet were craving stimulation as well and after I noticed my wife was busy and not paying much attention to me casually mention to her that I was going for a short run. So outside with my dog I go, it was -24C with a windchill of -31C. I just went back and forth close to my house, the soles felt the cold pretty quick but some of us actually listen when the feet mention that they've had enough cold. I figured that I was out there for about 4-5 minutes or about .5 km, just long enough to get questioned about my mental status by my wive as she was just heading out for some shopping. Feet felt cold but good, no burning or tingling. I think that this run will be my last of this winter to see how low I can go, Bob's low temp run should be safe for another winter. YOW, this time it was to cold to walk, this was running with a extremely high cadence, had to keep the circulation going. :coldfeet:
 
Lee, what ever happened to keeping feet dry when we venture in freezing temps? :) Hope you don't loose too much of the pads. They plowed the roads in my neighborhood down too bare pavement, so since my feet were craving stimulation as well and after I noticed my wife was busy and not paying much attention to me casually mention to her that I was going for a short run. So outside with my dog I go, it was -24C with a windchill of -31C. I just went back and forth close to my house, the soles felt the cold pretty quick but some of us actually listen when the feet mention that they've had enough cold. I figured that I was out there for about 4-5 minutes or about .5 km, just long enough to get questioned about my mental status by my wive as she was just heading out for some shopping. Feet felt cold but good, no burning or tingling. I think that this run will be my last of this winter to see how low I can go, Bob's low temp run should be safe for another winter. YOW, this time it was to cold to walk, this was running with a extremely high cadence, had to keep the circulation going. :coldfeet:


Yeah, it was pretty dumb :wtf: . Enthusiasm got the better of me, and made me semi-willfully misremember how it went last year. I think I tricked myself into thinking I could run consistently on wet pavement in sub-freezing temps, when in fact, I think last winter I was only able to run on patches of wet pavement, and probably never colder than -5C. I do remember running in slush at around freezing, but slush at -9C was probably too much to expect. I need to review last winter's log. I wonder if yesterday I would've been better off trying to run on the compacted snow. Might've been able to get in couple of kilometers. Or not. Yesterday was less than a kilometer, and probably about a half-kilometer too much even then. Basically, I was in trouble the minute that lady stopped to ask me about parking.

The good news is that my toes don't feel too bad at all today, and are getting better as the day goes on, so I should be able to run bare by Sunday or Monday, if the weather cooperates. I just don't have much enthusiasm for running shod. I know it's not so bad, but even with minimalist shoes I have to think about proper foot landing, whereas bare I can just run without thinking about form issues at all, or very little. I really hate having to focus when I run. Just lazy I guess. Plus I'm totally addicted to the tactile stimulation, as so many of us are.

Anyway, when it's dry out again, I'll definitely be pushing things, trying to see how cold and for how long I can go. I began to get hints on my run-commutes a few weeks ago that my tolerances may have improved this year, but I'll only know for sure when I run more than a mile in the colder temp ranges. I doubt I'll ever come close to challenging you or Bob's PRs, but I'd like to challenge my own.

Hey, one question for everyone: is it OK to run on a surface that's been salted but is now dry and just has residue? I wonder if I could've gotten by by running back and forth on the sidewalk yesterday. In other words, if my feet are dry and the surface is dry, can salt residue still interact detrimentally with my skin?
 
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Reading this thread is making me feel better about my decision to put Sockwas on for about 27°F with lots of snow and ice and damp pavement. But I have a question that isn't strictly about bare feet. My feet never felt chilled in the wool socks and Sockwas, but at about mile 12 I started to wonder if my core temperature was dropping. I just started to feel strange, but I wanted to finish one more mile. I guess we all have our own variation of stubborn. I had 2 layers of nearly everything on, though I had taken off my hat (kept on the ear band), and only single layer of knit gloves. I know my legs felt plenty warm, too. My upper body felt the cold air through the 2 layers, but I didn't "feel" I was cold. Until I got in the car and was kind of shaky and my hands were much colder than I knew. I guess I had better review the symptoms of hypothermia. I have never run close to this distance in the cold before, but I have been out skiing that long.
 
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