Josh McDougal is a Perfect Example of What is Wrong With High School Track

Yeah, I have learned a lot from their website. I have really worked on the exhaling and know that doing it constantly is more relaxing, even if I'm working harder. There is no point for me (yet?) though where I am comfortable only getting air through my nose. Maybe different folks also have different diameter nasal passages?

You have a race looming I see...lots of taper rest and swim on your strong side in the race...i probably have a big nose...I paddle with it when I swim!
 
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they recommended slowing the breathing to help get rid of excess CO2 as they think it builds excess CO2 when you breath to quickly for your pace

that doesn't make sense. CO2 is built up only as quickly as oxygen is used. There is no excess CO2 from over-breathing.

If it works, I bet it would have more to do with the timing and duration of gas exchange. Oxygen and CO2 will move between the air in the lungs and bloodstream efficiently at first, but less efficiently as CO2 pressure in the lungs increases and O2 pressure decreases, until it becomes more efficient to exhale and inhale a lungful of fresh air. Then gas exchange nearly stops after exhalation, but becomes more efficient after inhalation.

Swimmers have no choice but to consciously establish a breath cadence.

When I nose breathed yesterday I counted the breaths per minute a couple times...it was 20 both times...the article talks about 15 breathes per minutes...I would have to slow way way down or walk to do 15 per/min...I agree I wouldn't pay much if any attention to that.

1 full breath every 3 seconds, at a step cadence of 180 is 1 breath every 6 steps, a 3-3 rhythm. Anything near LT or tempo effort is nearly impossible to do breathing that slowly.

A 4-4 rhythm is easy run pace.

the difference between nose breathing and mouth breathing is not extreme at all...I'm not sure that test would be of much value for a runner in decent health...or maybe its just a difference in running intensity/speed.

Have you tried nose breathing yourself on easy effort vs speedy efforts?

The point is, the doctors consider breathing obstructed if the lungs can't be cleared in a certain amount of time. Nasal breathing has the same effect.

Can you virtually empty your lungs in less than 1.5 seconds through your nose? If so, I bet it's a very forceful exhalation. Breathing should be relaxed, not a labor in and of itself.

I've tried nose-breathing on easy runs and it was still a hindrance. For speed work it's out of the question.
 
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that doesn't make sense. CO2 is built up only as quickly as oxygen is used. There is no excess CO2 from over-breathing.
Swimmers have no choice but to consciously establish a breath cadence.

Doesn't really matter if it makes sense or not if it works.

1 full breath every 3 seconds, at a step cadence of 180 is 1 breath every 6 steps, a 3-3 rhythm. Anything near LT or tempo effort is nearly impossible to do breathing that slowly.

A 4-4 rhythm is easy run pace.

I don't really know what the 3/3 or 4/4 means but i was running a pace for like a 30 - 40 mile race not any wheres close to LT or tempo pace that would be several minutes per mile faster and there no way I would nose breath even at a marathon pace....so i guess i would agree with you but not sure if that means anything useful.

The point is, the doctors consider breathing obstructed if the lungs can't be cleared in a certain amount of time. Nasal breathing has the same effect.

Can you virtually empty your lungs in less than 1.5 seconds through your nose? If so, I bet it's a very forceful exhalation. Breathing should be relaxed, not a labor in and of itself.I've tried nose-breathing on easy runs and it was still a hindrance. For speed work it's out of the question.

While I'm setting here drinking beer I can surely empty my lungs in way less than 1.5 secs without hardly any effort....the slow easy 20 breaths per minute at a very slow relaxing pace works out to like you said 3 seconds ...what is the hindrance? I can't really breath any slower than that no matter how hard I try....I would have to hold my breath a little bit.

Could it be the overall aerobic conditioning is the biggest factor weather you breath thru your mouth or nose? My conditioning is decent but not great its been better in the past but still not bad now.
 
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you use your diaphragm more when you breathe through your nose. it's a muscle and needs to be trained like any other muscle. just "trying" nose breathing won't work. it takes practice. i have more asthmatic symptoms when i breathe through my mouth and can race while breathing through my nose. even sprint. i only have to clear my lungs through my mouth every so often when running hard or fast.

your nose is designed for breathing, your mouth is designed for eating and drinking. it can do both but is better for objects, not air.

funny how we get so heated over what should be so simple.
 
Doesn't really matter if it makes sense or not if it works.
While I'm setting here drinking beer I can surely empty my lungs in way less than 1.5 secs without hardly any effort.

Try standing up, taking a deep breath and filling your lungs as full as they can get, then completely empty them. That's the test. You don't use your full lung capacity sitting down.

Actually, at a cadence of 180spm, 1 minute/20 breaths x 180 steps/1 minute = 9 steps/1 breath, not 6. So it's even slower than I thought, a 4.5/4.5 cadence. 4 to 5 steps inhaling, 4 to 5 steps exhaling. Yes, a slow jog can be done breathing through the nose, but that pace isn't even remotely stressful aerobically.
 
Actually, at a cadence of 180spm, 1 minute/20 breaths x 180 steps/1 minute = 9 steps/1 breath, not 6. So it's even slower than I thought, a 4.5/4.5 cadence. 4 to 5 steps inhaling, 4 to 5 steps exhaling. Yes, a slow jog can be done breathing through the nose, but that pace isn't even remotely stressful aerobically.

I have never thought about the 3/3... 4/4 etc breathing speed ever till i read this thread....I see now what it means, thanks...I'm probably slower than your estimate actually, I like a bit higher cadence than 180. Slow is good most of the time.

I'm mildly interested in testing to see if nose breathing is as good as mouth breathing when comparing speed vs heart-rate that's probably the direction I'm headed in now.
 
you use your diaphragm more when you breathe through your nose. it's a muscle and needs to be trained like any other muscle. just "trying" nose breathing won't work. it takes practice. i have more asthmatic symptoms when i breathe through my mouth and can race while breathing through my nose. even sprint. i only have to clear my lungs through my mouth every so often when running hard or fast.

your nose is designed for breathing, your mouth is designed for eating and drinking. it can do both but is better for objects, not air.

funny how we get so heated over what should be so simple.
The only one I see ever get heated over this is you Mike. I personally can't breathe through my nose while sitting, let alone while running. Not everyone is built the same. Apparently my mouth is for eating, drinking, and breathing. My nose sucks for breathing and does not do that well at all. Nothing to do with my diaphragm. Trying to breathe in through my nose while running will literally close the nostrils because I can't get enough air. Basically take your fingers and squeeze your nose till it closes, that's what happens only my nose does this with without the aid of the fingers. Not everyone can do it so I don't know why there is any debate or even arguing over it. Seems kind of silly and I can't believe this thread has gone on this long with all the debate. This is like a MAF thread, not everyone is the same and likes different things. Let's leave it at that.
 
The only one I see ever get heated over this is you Mike. I personally can't breathe through my nose while sitting, let alone while running. Not everyone is built the same. Apparently my mouth is for eating, drinking, and breathing. My nose sucks for breathing and does not do that well at all. Nothing to do with my diaphragm. Trying to breathe in through my nose while running will literally close the nostrils because I can't get enough air. Basically take your fingers and squeeze your nose till it closes, that's what happens only my nose does this with without the aid of the fingers. Not everyone can do it so I don't know why there is any debate or even arguing over it. Seems kind of silly and I can't believe this thread has gone on this long with all the debate. This is like a MAF thread, not everyone is the same and likes different things. Let's leave it at that.
Although, in Mike's defense, I don't think he was the only one animated by the discussion... I think the specific subject reasonable in the vein of offering ideas that might prove helpful for others to experiment with.:) My husband discusses variations of the idea with me, and even though I can't do it the same way he does, just talking about it helps me to think about my breathing. Just as long as no one feels like a failure because they can't do it "textbook" style. Like you said, we are all different.
 
The only one I see ever get heated over this is you Mike.
That's 'cos the rest of us nose breathers appointed him our spokesperson & then shut our mouths ;)

Seriously though, I do find it hard to nose breathe when running but am working on it, primarily because it's made such a difference to my normal breathing. I followed Buyteko for asthma & did find it tough transitioning (taping the mouth when sleeping's one thing, my brain was so hard to retrain that there were times I even taped it when I was awake!) but it was definitely worth it - I have no idea what my blood gases are doing & no, I can't prove that it resulted in an improvement in my asthma as there's no control group in an experiment of one. The observable things for me are improved air quality (humidity, temperature I can sense & I guess there's a bit of filtering going on) & improved muscle tone in the muscles I should be using to breathe, which leads to much faster recovery if my asthma does kick off.

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Kozz said:
The point is, the doctors consider breathing obstructed if the lungs can't be cleared in a certain amount of time. Nasal breathing has the same effect.
Can you virtually empty your lungs in less than 1.5 seconds through your nose?
- well it probably takes me about half a second longer without pushing it, though sure I could beat that easily blowing my nose! But doctors measure the extremes, I'd not want to regularly breathe out at the speed required to measure my peak flow either.

Like Nick says, it won't work for everyone (kind of like running barefoot...)
 
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